Promotion and PRF Information

[Recut]

Just heard the "deciding O-6" in our Agency tell us that he will be selecting those who attend SOS in residence for his upcoming board based on completion of SOS in correspondence (whatever, standard) and masters completion!!! Not for O-4 or O-5 promotion boards of even IDE... masters completion to go to effing SOS!!!!! For an O-5 board; sure... O-4 board; maybe... to go to SOS?!? Why are these incredible morons who now sit in what used to be leadership positions so hell bent on picking future Colonels and Generals when they are just LT's and young Capts?!? I give up...

I thought one of the main reasons for the "new" SOS was to eliminate the need to do SOS online and then go do it again (also to get rid of ASBC). Additionally, I thought they were going to pretty much send everyone. Sounds like it is more of the same just a longer SOS. Nice....

[FUSEPLUG]

Accounting date: say that again? Next year, as in Nov 2014? Or next Fiscal Year just 3 months from now?

Fall of 2014.... that is the latest intel I received as well.

Is anyone else starting to feel like the unwanted guest who has overstayed his/her welcome? Another (legitimate) VSP would quickly solve the manning issues that drove our board 1 year to the right.

[Dupe]

Is anyone else starting to feel like the unwanted guest who has overstayed his/her welcome? Another (legitimate) VSP would quickly solve the manning issues that drove our board 1 year to the right.

A VSP would just result in a bunch of rejected applications from pilots (or no applications if you didn't include them)

The fundamental problem is that, in aggregate, we can't get the officers we want gone to leave. At the same time, we can't get the officers we want to keep to stay.

On the short haul, I would do a mix of a RIF and bonuses. Well, we're doing half of that. On the long haul, promotions need to be career-specific. ...but nobody asked me.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Dupe

[Rusty Pipes]

This has been the norm for selection boards depending upon your base. Why is this so cosmic of a concept to anyone now.

I believe our selection boards are run like a promotion board but they focus on OPRs, fitness test scores, and your CC's ranking.

It has been the norm to tell LTs that it will be a requirement to have their Masters complete to go to SOS? What Base are you at??? OPRs and CC's ranking makes sense, but selecting who goes to SOS based on who has their Masters done has absolutely zero to do with leadership or leadership potential. This moron is essentially telling every LT in our organization that their stratification and future promotion potential will be decide by whether or not they have a Masters degree before pinning on Captain. This is exactly what is wrong with the Air Force today.

[Van1]

It has been the norm to tell LTs that it will be a requirement to have their Masters complete to go to SOS? What Base are you at??? OPRs and CC's ranking makes sense, but selecting who goes to SOS based on who has their Masters done has absolutely zero to do with leadership or leadership potential. This moron is essentially telling every LT in our organization that their stratification and future promotion potential will be decide by whether or not they have a Masters degree before pinning on Captain. This is exactly what is wrong with the Air Force today.

Might as well make a Masters degree a commissioning requirement. That's were the AF is heading anyway.

[ThreeHoler]

This has been the norm for selection boards depending upon your base. Why is this so cosmic of a concept to anyone now.

I believe our selection boards are run like a promotion board but they focus on OPRs, fitness test scores, and your CC's ranking.

"Leaders" who don't know their people are different from a stoplight chart are douches.

Here is the deal...for a "100%" opportunity, why the fuck do we have wing selection boards?

Also, do the tards who come up with this shit realize that other bases send everyone because they have more spots than eligible people?

[Rusty Pipes]

If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

You can't compare the two... it isn't realistic, especially for a pilot to expect an AAD for SOS. 1 Year sitting around casual waiting to start UPT, 1 year in UPT, minimum of 1 year between Land/Water survival... RTU... PCS... Mission Ready program. So now you have a 1 Lt who knows just enough to be dangerous and through no fault of his own probably sucks at flying the jet just because he is new/little flight experience and we have these douche bag Commanders basically telling them they better not only start, but finish their AAD immediately or else?!? Not sure what the 100% SOS in residence plan is, but I can tell you that we have many more Capts in our Agency that have not been than there are in resident slots... granted there is obviously a 3 year window, but with the averages there will still be a decent amount that will not be able to go unless our slots increase.

[17D_guy]

You can't compare the two... it isn't realistic, especially for a pilot to expect an AAD for SOS. 1 Year sitting around casual waiting to start UPT, 1 year in UPT, minimum of 1 year between Land/Water survival... RTU... PCS... Mission Ready program. So now you have a 1 Lt who knows just enough to be dangerous and through no fault of his own probably sucks at flying the jet just because he is new/little flight experience and we have these douche bag Commanders basically telling them they better not only start, but finish their AAD immediately or else?!? Not sure what the 100% SOS in residence plan is, but I can tell you that we have many more Capts in our Agency that have not been than there are in resident slots... granted there is obviously a 3 year window, but with the averages there will still be a decent amount that will not be able to go unless our slots increase.

I would like to add this can be close to a similar scenario for multiple support career-fields to depending on where they're assigned. I have many peers who pulled multiple deployments in their first 4 years, and some of those included months long "battlefield" training.

We could get into the discussion of an online degree, and then we're just talking about a NEW band-aid to a broken leadership scenario.

The fact that some bases include PT scores in rating their folks is atrocious. Why don't they just include photos so they can make sure only the individuals the exec thinks are "hot" can go.

Rating Lt's the same way you rate O4/5... way to set folks up for success.

Edited September 13, 2013 by 17D_guy

[ThreeHoler]

If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

Your level of douchebaggery never ceases to amaze me.

You have got to be a troll.

[pawnman]

If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

Well hell, if that's the case let's just promote the people who go to SOS in-residence and eliminate PRFs for O-4 entirely. It's the same dicriminators, right? How much time, energy, and money would that save during the budget crisis?

Edited September 13, 2013 by pawnman

[Rusty Pipes]

Well hell, if that's the case let's just promote the people who go to SOS in-residence and eliminate PRFs for O-4 entirely. It's the same dicriminators, right? How much time, energy, and money would that save during the budget crisis?

That's essentially what we do anyway isn't it? My last OG/CC was doing his rack and stack for O-4 PRFs and he showed me his "criteria list" on his notes page. One of the notes said, "Non-Res SOS = Scumbag". He was laughing when he showed it to me, but not one of the non-res SOS types got a DP. So basically if this new douche bag O-6 in my agency now is saying no SOS in Res without an AAD completed he is basically telling these young Capts and Lts that if you don't do what he says and get your Masters now you probably won't make Maj and definitely won't make Lt Col. Again... he is basically requiring an effing Masters before pinning on Capt and deciding at that point who will get promoted to FGO!!!

Edited September 13, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[Duck]

I know of a certain OG that not only looks at PT scores but BMI... Just saying, the wheels are off the bike.

[BUSTED]

If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

"Have no clue how that happens." Here are a few clues:

Step one: dudes are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Not building building habitat for humanity houses, not planning community "fun runs." Executing their primary mission.

Step two: their commanders/raters are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Managing and leading their people. Not looking at spreadsheets with AAD stats.

Oh, snap. I forgot where I worked. I meant to say...

... In residence SOS without even putting in enough effort to get a BAC+?! What an outrage!

Edited September 13, 2013 by BUSTED

[slackline]

"Have no clue how that happens." Here are a few clues:

Step one: dudes are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Not building building habitat for humanity houses, not planning community "fun runs." Executing their primary mission.

Step two: their commanders/raters are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Managing and leading their people. Not looking at spreadsheets with AAD stats.

Oh, snap. I forgot where I worked. I meant to say...

... In residence SOS without even putting in enough effort to get a BAC+?! What an outrage!

As much as I agree that this guy is a troll and bad for the Air Force, I think he was referring to ACSC. He is a tool though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did mean SOS.

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[Champ Kind]

Just heard the "deciding O-6" in our Agency tell us that he will be selecting those who attend SOS in residence for his upcoming board based on completion of SOS in correspondence (whatever, standard) and masters completion!!! Not for O-4 or O-5 promotion boards of even IDE... masters completion to go to effing SOS!!!!! For an O-5 board; sure... O-4 board; maybe... to go to SOS?!? Why are these incredible morons who now sit in what used to be leadership positions so hell bent on picking future Colonels and Generals when they are just LT's and young Capts?!? I give up...

This just can't be...

I was in my third year as Capt when I went to SOS. Finished my AAD right after (a year before my O-4 board). I started doing one Masters class per term within 4 months of arriving at my first operational squadron, and doubled up on a deployment. It still took me that long to finish. Unless guys are going to SOS later (closer to their O-4 board now), it seems infeasible that they would have an AAD completed in that amount of time. Either that, or are guys really getting their Masters done THAT early now?

I hate a lot of things about the AF as much as anyone, but are you sure you aren't exaggerating a tad, Rusty?

Edited September 13, 2013 by Champ Kind

[Gravedigger]

This just can't be... are guys really getting their Masters done THAT early now?

I had guys in my IFS class working on their masters. When I reclassed to space, I started mine, doubled up every semester and finished as a 1st Lt. Most of the people in my classes were other Lts. It is not unusual for people to be working on classes during training, on the flying side and the non-flying side. Working crew as a space person, you are pretty much expected to be doing homework during slow times in ops. I'm honestly glad I did it then, because that was the best timing for me. The problem is the Air Force expects that of junior flyers too, which is asinine and unrealistic.

[sqwatch]

Geezus, this horse won't die. No Bach+, still went to SOS and still managed to be in the top 88% of my peers to be promoted to maj. My story is not original, but I never worked for that one "douchbag O6" who gave a sh1t about pt scores.

[17D_guy]

I had guys in my IFS class working on their masters. When I reclassed to space, I started mine, doubled up every semester and finished as a 1st Lt. Most of the people in my classes were other Lts. It is not unusual for people to be working on classes during training, on the flying side and the non-flying side. Working crew as a space person, you are pretty much expected to be doing homework during slow times in ops. I'm honestly glad I did it then, because that was the best timing for me. The problem is the Air Force expects that of junior flyers too, which is asinine and unrealistic.

About the same, most of my peers are done and I guess I'm lagging since I didn't roll the TUI/Trident sorta thing. Told a O6 I was knocking out Master's classes and he asked if I had SoS done yet. I said no, (3 classes a semester), and got a dirty look. Whatever, I can retire as a Capt, give a sh*t meter broken.

[TarHeelPilot]

Lord of the Flies. My 10 years are up next year and it looks more and more every day that I will be taking my skills elsewhere. Stop-loss permitting, of course.

[Vprdrvr69]

Holy jesus######ingchrist!!! My eyes are bleeding while i keep whispering under my breath, YGBFSM...

Someone please make it stop.

BVR Trollslap in 3...2...1...

[Warrior]

I watch how leadership operates. The person who didn't even work on their AAD at all is getting out. Why send him in residence just to fill a slot when someone from another squadron could have gone instead? This didn't make sense to me since the slots at my base are limited due to a large number of CGOs. I just don't like to screw people over and the individual in question is not a top tier person in the squadron.

I know it's hard to decide who goes versus who stays. That's why I like to seek out knowledge on the process so I don't get it wrong if I have to do it someday.

Dude, really? The LT or first year capt who doesn't have a masters is "getting out"? I hope you don't ever have to make real decisions some day.

[LockheedFix]

I've got to assume slick999 is a KC-10 guy. That's the only community that I've been around where dudes will blatantly tell you that the only reason they want to be an IP is so they can compete to be the wing exec.

[RASH]

This just can't be...

I was in my third year as Capt when I went to SOS. Finished my AAD right after (a year before my O-4 board). I started doing one Masters class per term within 4 months of arriving at my first operational squadron, and doubled up on a deployment. It still took me that long to finish. Unless guys are going to SOS later (closer to their O-4 board now), it seems infeasible that they would have an AAD completed in that amount of time. Either that, or are guys really getting their Masters done THAT early now?

I hate a lot of things about the AF as much as anyone, but are you sure you aren't exaggerating a tad, Rusty?

Unfortunately, he's not exaggerating Champ. As an ORF sim instructor, we have a bunch of brand new LTs fresh from UPT who are working on their AAD while going through initial qual. Their GK sucks because they're spending more time on AMU/Touro/E-R than in the Dash-1/3-3.

[slackline]

I'm speaking for how my base operates. I'm not making a blanket AF statement. The people who had their AAD complete went in residence without a problem. The OG says to have it done by the 2 year mark as a captain.

Could I have done this despite two deployments pretty much back to back? Yes, but I was tired after my second deployment and neglected to finish my last 3 classes until the beginning of this year. I took a break from school but I personally had enough time to get it done in 2 years but it took me 4 years. When I was knocking classes out I wasn't out drinking and partying. I would study aircraft knowledge and perform my squadron job, then go home and do homework. While deployed, I did homework when I had free time after hacking the mission.

You guys remember the Lt who posted that he was passed over for captain because he didn't have enough leadership? Someone told him that non-flyers are Flt/CC's as Lt's and that was the problem.

If a flyer and non-flyer look pretty even for a slot how do you break the tie if one has an AAD and the other one hasn't even attempted one? Is it actually fair to have a board that mimics what a promotion board does but solely for SOS slots?

I don't want any of my people screwed over that's why this process intrigues me.

Wow, I hate myself for having tried to defend you. You were talking about in residence to SOS without bac+. One thing if you're OG is an idiot and forcing this level of pain on young CGO's, but it's 10x worse that you defend and cling to his style. You are surely bound for this new AF style of greatness. I'm a school select, but have zero desire to go when I see that the majority of people that got selected seem to be in your category. At first I thought it was cool that I somehow got picked up for it, but now I have to look inside to examine why I somehow got lumped in with a group of you tools...

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[Azimuth]

I've got to assume slick999 is a KC-10 guy. That's the only community that I've been around where dudes will blatantly tell you that the only reason they want to be an IP is so they can compete to be the wing exec.

Apparently you've never met anyone from the -17 community.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Azimuth