Promotion and PRF Information

[silverwolf0911]

I've heard about this from leadership where I'm at. My boss is in my career field's DT. And he generally does a "DT ou tbrief" for anyone who wants to come.... sort of his way to teach the young guys what DTs do, how vectors work, etc. In the out brief he gave from the this past summer's DT, he basically said what Liquid said above. I have the brief he gave if anyone's interested (.mil email address).

Edit: Note that I'm a 62E (developmental engineer)... so the info I got is geared primarily for us acquisition types. But I'd imagine there would be some similarities.

Edited October 4, 2013 by silverwolf0911

[olevelo]

Same info was shared to us from our OG, who sat on the CAF DT. This was at the OG staff meeting to CC's and other staff (I'm OGV), but his intent was for the word and possibly the brief to go out to everyone (although I don't think he's been able to present it with the budget crisis of the week and such).

[slackline]

Thanks. Never saw this trickle down to the working man's level.

Anyone actually been briefed what Liquid said by upper mgmt at their bases?

I don't doubt you, but it does suck that if I hadn't read it on BODN, I would have never heard about it.

My boss, PEP, said the same thing a few weeks back.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Romad]

With the cuts to In-res oportunities, does anyone have any idea how the In-res credit works for those who have done things like AFIT in the past but not for IDE credit? Can the DTs also recommend the credit option and not cut into their huge pool of 1 (one) IDE candidate? Thanks!

[zach braff]

With the cuts to In-res oportunities, does anyone have any idea how the In-res credit works for those who have done things like AFIT in the past but not for IDE credit? Can the DTs also recommend the credit option and not cut into their huge pool of 1 (one) IDE candidate? Thanks!

Unless I'm mistaken, no. IDE credit for past programs is only offered upon being nominated by the DT. So you still have to compete (as a select or candidate) and be picked for IDE. But you still count against the DT's numbers.

[Liquid]

With the cuts to In-res oportunities, does anyone have any idea how the In-res credit works for those who have done things like AFIT in the past but not for IDE credit? Can the DTs also recommend the credit option and not cut into their huge pool of 1 (one) IDE candidate? Thanks!

Yes, the DT can award IDE equivalency credit. It does not count against the number of people you nominate to the DEDB. It is a quality check to make sure your record is "good enough" to earn the distinction of IDE in-residence. There are criteria for which programs qualify as well. Most eligibles I've seen get the credit. Not sure if about all the AFIT programs. Doing AFIT as a Lt probably wouldn't qualify, but you'd have to ask AFPC.

[Dupe]

Unless I'm mistaken, no. IDE credit for past programs is only offered upon being nominated by the DT. So you still have to compete (as a select or candidate) and be picked for IDE. But you still count against the DT's numbers.

There were some in my community that worried that taking the credit would create this middle tier of IDE. I.e...In-res, credit, and correspondence. So far, I haven't seen that play out. The credit guys that I know are getting assignments on par with the in-res guys.

[olevelo]

According to our OG (again, sat on the last CAF board), the credit option is very board dependent. Officially, you have to score above the lowest person to make the cut for in-res. Even if you don't request credit the board can still give it to you if they notice you're eligible. He said on their board, they artificially elevated every credit eligible person above the cut line so they'd get the credit. All of those were candidates, as the direction was that ALL selects went to school. So the reasoning was that it was no cost to anyone to give the folks what they earned, and with the current direction that only one candidate could go in-res, they knew this was the absolute only chance for any of these guys. It'd be nice if all the DT's did it this way, but I've no insight on those. One point, you still have to make it out if your wing as a recommend to the DT, otherwise they can't do anything for you. So that's a note the CAF DT sent back to the senior raters. The other note they sent back was if the SR thinks this year isn't the right time (apparently a few went up saying "not ready yet"), if they were a select, the DT had to send them...so word back was don't submit them from the SR if they're not ready!

Edited October 6, 2013 by olevelo

[ShavedDogsAss]

According to our OG... if they were a select, the DT had to send them...so word back was don't submit them from the SR if they're not ready!

How reliable is this? I'm a select, but only got to my new base in Aug of last year. Even though I was nominated this time (1st look), I'll only have 23-24 months (depending on how you count) on station by the time I'd leave.

[DirkDiggler]

How reliable is this? I'm a select, but only got to my new base in Aug of last year. Even though I was nominated this time (1st look), I'll only have 23-24 months (depending on how you count) on station by the time I'd leave.

Its reliable, I'm potentially in the same boat, I'll only have 18 months on station by the time I'll leave. Not sure if it's different across the MAJCOMs but that's the way it is in AFSOC right now.

[epsilon]

My boss, PEP, said the same thing a few weeks back.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I think I was on the same conference call or at least heard the same from him. My last look and I had an awesome strat as a candidate...but that is a no-go now. Whatever.

[zach braff]

Yes, the DT can award IDE equivalency credit. It does not count against the number of people you nominate to the DEDB. It is a quality check to make sure your record is "good enough" to earn the distinction of IDE in-residence. There are criteria for which programs qualify as well. Most eligibles I've seen get the credit. Not sure if about all the AFIT programs. Doing AFIT as a Lt probably wouldn't qualify, but you'd have to ask AFPC.

I stand corrected than. Interesting. Possible strategy for CCs then (in an only-selects-will-likely-go-to-school-environment)... Encourage those in the top 30% but not quite top 15% bracket to do an AFIT/NPS/etc program. Your top 15% get the select and go in-res, the next tier even as non-selects can likely still get the IDE credit. Now you end up with twice the in-res officers in your unit/community.

???

zb

[ThreeHoler]

I stand corrected than. Interesting. Possible strategy for CCs then (in an only-selects-will-likely-go-to-school-environment)... Encourage those in the top 30% but not quite top 15% bracket to do an AFIT/NPS/etc program. Your top 15% get the select and go in-res, the next tier even as non-selects can likely still get the IDE credit. Now you end up with twice the in-res officers in your unit/community.

???

zb

AFPC won't release pilots for that, at least in the KC-10.

[Herk Driver]

All of the above and push guys for the RAS/PAS program and other programs that get them NPS (etc) and then have them request IDE credit. I know a couple of MAF guys that are having some luck through this avenue.

[Champ Kind]

So if Big Blue wants to get creative with IDE credit, why shouldn't Weapons School graduates receive it?

[Muscle2002]

So if Big Blue wants to get creative with IDE credit, why shouldn't Weapons School graduates receive it?

I think it's because the other equivalency programs award Masters degrees while WIC does not; that plus the length of the program...although this is just a guess.

[RTB]

I think it's because the other equivalency programs award Masters degrees while WIC does not; that plus the length of the program...although this is just a guess.

That and I mean be honest, my ERAU online masters is WAY harder than WIC...

My guess is that WIC is seen as an intense, challenging and worthwhile training program. And therefore not worthy of IDE credit.

Very cynical.

[Champ Kind]

Leadership - Check

Joint Interoperability - Check

Warfare Theory - Check

Doctrine - Check

Oh, and you're actually learning these things by planning and executing versus a strictly academic environment. Also, say what you want about some patch wearers, but they don't exactly just let any joe blow have the opportunity to attend the training.

Someone post the desired learning objectives of ACSC and I'll bet you can apply them (and more) to the WIC... the main difference being that, contrary to WIC, the ACSC curriculum crams 6 months of blue Kool Aid into a year.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Champ Kind

[Dupe]

Leadership - Check

Joint Interoperability - Check

Warfare Theory - Check

Doctrine - Check

Is there a blow-hard with a PhD in charge of curriculum development? Sorry, no IDE credit.

That said, I'd be curious to know what percentage of patches are not IDE-selects.

[TheInner]

So if Big Blue wants to get creative with IDE credit, why shouldn't Weapons School graduates receive it?

While I agree that you couldn't ask for much more in terms of teaching the kind of stuff the AF values, they have already shown their cards with the online masters that gives several credits to WIC grads but not a free pass. The question that I don't know the answer to is does the AF really care that we will have less people getting IDE credit these next couple years, cause if they don't it would make the equivalency credit debate a lot easier.

That said, I'd be curious to know what percentage of patches are not IDE-selects.

I have no idea what the numbers are, but from personal experience I know that there are more than a handful that weren't selects but relatively low compared to the "general population."

[backseatdriver]

That said, I'd be curious to know what percentage of patches are not IDE-selects.

It depends.

Different rates depending on community. In AFSOC it's roughly half I would say. I'm guessing the CAF rates are higher

Edited October 7, 2013 by backseatdriver

[brabus]

Even better, patches being passed over for Maj because they lack a master degree. Nobody is safe from getting run over by the full retard train these days.

Edited October 7, 2013 by brabus

[zach braff]

Even better, patches being passed over for Maj because they lack a master degree. Nobody is safe from getting run over by the full retard train these days.

Not calling bullshit, but sort of calling bullshit. Even in today's AF a patch being passed over to Maj simply for lacking a masters sounds like an extreme case. Maybe it happened, but I'm guessing there had to be more to the story than just lack of AAD. Really?

Again 90% of officers make make Maj. The few guys I've seen not make it have generally had several if not all of the following factors: no in-res SOS, no AAD no deployments, no awards/strats/job growth not really good workers. And you're saying that patchES (plural) are getting passed over with the direct feedback that it was their lack of AAD?

Again not saying not true, but sounds fishy to me.

zb

Edit for iPhone keyboard typos

Edited October 7, 2013 by zach braff

[Ram]

That said, I'd be curious to know what percentage of patches are not IDE-selects.

Way too many are NOT selects. I just don't get it. So many tiers of competition and quality cuts, and you're talking about the 0.1% of a commissioning year group.

"No thanks," says Big Blue, "We'd rather burn 'em out as quickly as possible and force 69% of them to the Guard at the end of their commitments."

Edited October 7, 2013 by Ram

[Dupe]

Way too many are NOT selects. I just don't get it. So many tiers of competition and quality cuts, and you're talking about the 0.1% of a commissioning year group.

"No thanks," says Big Blue, "We'd rather burn 'em out as quickly as possible and force 69% of them to the Guard at the end of their commitments."

I know far more WIC grads/IDE-selects who have punched for the guard than I know WIC grads who were not selected for IDE. Patch burn-out is a real problem... I'm not sure WIC guys getting non-selected for school is as real a problem. All we have is the anecdotal "I know a guy..." to go any further. Hopefully, someone knows related stats better...

The solution is so simple... Let DTs select for promotion and development opportunities. AF/A1 can just push down how many of each AFSC we need. The CAF DT is probably much better equipped to figure out who is in the top 20% (or 15% for SDE) of 11Fs than a hodge-podge collection of O-6s.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Dupe