Promotion and PRF Information

[Duck]

I know a dude 11M 2ABZ prior enlisted, took pilot bonus putting him at 18 years = no TERA

[HeloDude]

I know a dude 11M 2ABZ prior enlisted, took pilot bonus putting him at 18 years = no TERA

You get continued/not continued after you are passed over twice, ie 1ABZ (not 2ABZ)...so say this guy was prior-E with 3 years TAS, got commissioned, and was passed over twice for O-5, he would be roughly at the 18 year mark, putting him in sanctuary for the standard 20 year retirement. So unless he was only enlisted for 2 years or so, or he is within a couple months of the 18 year mark after being passed over twice, your post isn't making sense. Perhaps I misunderstood or am missing something in the regs?

[HossHarris]

Sanctuary doesn't exist for ad. Search it out

Edited June 13, 2015 by HossHarris

[Homestar]

[Fifty-six & Two]

Sanctuary doesn't exist for ad. Search it out

Just stop.

10 U.S. Code § 632 - Effect of failure of selection for promotion: captains and majors of the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps and lieutenants and lieutenant commanders of the Navy

(a) Except an officer of the Navy and Marine Corps who is an officer designated for limited duty (to whom section 5596 (e) or6383 of this title applies) and except as provided under section 637 (a) of this title, each officer of the Army, Air Force, or Marine Corps on the active-duty list who holds the grade of captain or major, and each officer of the Navy on the active-duty list who holds the grade of lieutenant or lieutenant commander, who has failed of selection for promotion to the next higher grade for the second time and whose name is not on a list of officers recommended for promotion to the next higher grade shall—

(1) except as provided in paragraph (3) and in subsection ©, be discharged on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time;

(2) if he is eligible for retirement under any provision of law, be retired under that law on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time; or

(3) if on the date on which he is to be discharged under paragraph (1) he is within two years of qualifying for retirement under section 3911, 6323, or 8911 of this title, be retained on active duty until he is qualified for retirement and then retired under that section, unless he is sooner retired or discharged under another provision of law.

The officer promotions AFI also references sanctuary multiple times for AD officers.

3.10. Effects of Nonselection for Promotion. Generally, officers not selected for promotion to captain through lieutenant colonel for the second time are separated in accordance with AFI 36- 3207, Separating Commissioned Officers, unless they: 3.10.1. Are retirement eligible or within 2 years of qualifying for retirement (i.e., in the sanctuary) as of the mandatory date of separation (DOS) established for officers twice nonselected for promotion by that board.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Fifty-six & Two

[Duck]

Not sure how long enlisted. He is at 18 years and passed over twice. Wants to get TERA but continued to 20. That's all I know based on what he told me.

[Tulsa]

In light of my recent post, here is what I found on sanctuary for AD, not quite like the ARC but pretty darn similar.

USC 10

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?collectionCode=USCODE&searchPath=Title+10%2FSubtitle+A%2FPART+II&granuleId=USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleE-partII-chap1221-sec12686&packageId=USCODE-2011-title10&oldPath=Title+10%2FSubtitle+A&fromPageDetails=true&collapse=true&ycord=658

AFI 36-2501

https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2501/afi36-2501.pdf

The AFI is pretty explicit with this quote on its definition of retirement sanctuary:

Retirement Sanctuary—The 2-year period immediately prior to eligibility for retirement as a commissioned officer under any provision of law.

Here is what it says about selective continuation:

7.9.1.1. Can retire, or is in the retirement sanctuary, as a commissioned officer by the mandatory date of separation for the associated promotion board. EXCEPTION: Officers possessing a critical skill may be offered continuation beyond their mandatory retirement date. Individuals not selected, or those who decline the continuation offer, will revert to their previous sanctuary or retirement status.

Secondly continuation should take you to 20 TAFMS according to this paragraph:

7.15. Continuation to Retirement Eligibility. For retirement purposes, continuation is to 20 years TAFMS.

Lastly, if you were selective continued, but the contract did not take you to 20 TAFMS, the AFI says this:

7.17. Terms For Involuntary Separation of Selectively Continued Officers. Consider officers for further continuation when continuation ends before an officer enters the retirement sanctuary or becomes eligible to retire. If an officer is not selected for further continuation, they will have at least 6 months notice before involuntary separation or discharge. Involuntarily separate officers who decline further continuation on the expiration of their current contract.

So, selective continuation should normally take you to 20 yrs TAFMS, if it doesn't, but gets you inside of 18 then you are good to retirement. That is all null and void if you rape someone, pop a DUI, or some other law breaking. The BL is they can't show you the door inside 2 years of retirement eligibility if you remain in good standing. I highly recommend reading the whole AFI to keep your self smart in light of all of the current CC and personnel buffoonery that seems to be afoot these days.

[Herk Driver]

Not sure how long enlisted. He is at 18 years and passed over twice. Wants to get TERA but continued to 20. That's all I know based on what he told me.

Right. No TERA because he was offered continuation. So this isn't a matter of sanctuary or not...he was offered continuation to take him to 20.

[olevelo]

How is someone not TERA eligible at their APZ?

I heard of a guy last year who did some sort of delayed entry program. So he met the promotion board with his year group he graduated with, but his delayed entry meant his tafms clock didn't start clicking till almost a year later. So he didn't quite have 15 years at the deadline (I believe the 7th month after the board). Again, I heard it from someone who heard it, but it seems like the only way it could happen. Or, I also read that the Chief of Staff can set an earlier date for folks to separate, which would presumably also affect who meets the 15 year requirement (those who entered late in the year), but that would be royally screwed up if they ever did that.

[budderbar]

How is a #3 of 6 stratification from first line rater/O-5 CC interpreted by promotion boards? Is my rater trying to send a negative message with a strat like this? I immediately took it as a negative as I interpret it to be "this guy is average at best". My senior rater/O-6 CC stratified me #3 of 10. Not sure what to make of it.

Edited June 25, 2015 by budderbar

[panchbarnes]

How is a #3 of 6 stratification from first line rater/O-5 CC interpreted by promotion boards? Is my rater trying to send a negative message with a strat like this? I immediately took it as a negative as I interpret it to be "this guy is average at best". My senior rater/O-6 CC stratified me #3 of 10. Not sure what to make of it.

#3 of 6 is still a strat. It depends on context too... of 6 CGOs/LTs/Capts/Snackos? You can leave it out of the PRF if you have stronger strats.

You also have to look at the whole push line. Did you get a good PME and assignment push? Do you need to be challenged for future assignments? Are you a good or outstanding officer?

Edited June 25, 2015 by PanchBarnes

[11F]

How is a #3 of 6 stratification from first line rater/O-5 CC interpreted by promotion boards? Is my rater trying to send a negative message with a strat like this? I immediately took it as a negative as I interpret it to be "this guy is average at best". My senior rater/O-6 CC stratified me #3 of 10. Not sure what to make of it.

You know what's wrong with this is the fact that budderbar has to wonder what his commander is trying to say.

I won't speak for communities I don't know, but at least within the fighter community, we are so good at providing unfiltered feedback in the tactical debrief, but so absolutely abhorrent at providing feedback on OPRs, job performance, bar-act, officership, etc.

Budderbar should have had his commander sit him down and say, "Hey, just so you're not confused, here is what I'm trying to say on this OPR, and here is why, and here is how I am hoping a promotion board will interpret this. If you wouldn't have done this and would start doing this, here's how it should look next year."

Feedback like this doesn't happen from a big AF program telling us to, it starts at a grassroots level like this.

Cheers, Budderbar.

[HeloDude]

^^This...

[Whitman]

You know what's wrong with this is the fact that budderbar has to wonder what his commander is trying to say.

I won't speak for communities I don't know, but at least within the fighter community, we are so good at providing unfiltered feedback in the tactical debrief, but so absolutely abhorrent at providing feedback on OPRs, job performance, bar-act, officership, etc.

Budderbar should have had his commander sit him down and say, "Hey, just so you're not confused, here is what I'm trying to say on this OPR, and here is why, and here is how I am hoping a promotion board will interpret this. If you wouldn't have done this and would start doing this, here's how it should look next year."

Feedback like this doesn't happen from a big AF program telling us to, it starts at a grassroots level like this.

Cheers, Budderbar.

Or better yet, honest feedback is given person-person and the OPR doesn't have special code that only CC's or execs can decipher. Ideally, it would be easily interpreted by anyone that reads it.

[HossHarris]

If you're not getting that direct feedback, or have questions like "what does 3/6 really mean" ASK.

[sky_king]

#3/6? Beats most of the strats I've got...

[Chicken]

#3/6? Beats most of the strats I've got...

Yea... technically 3/6 gets you O5 right?? Since the promotion rate it 75%???

Drunk.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Chicken

[guineapigfury]

Yea... technically 3/6 gets you O5 right?? Since the promotion rate it 75%???

Drunk.

By this theory an 8/10 strat should make you a lock for major.

[budderbar]

If you're not getting that direct feedback, or have questions like "what does 3/6 really mean" ASK.

I did, met with boss today; he said it wasn't a hidden negative message at all. He said he and our 0-6 debated whether to put a percentage like "top 5% capts I have ever lead" or the number strat "3/6". They both decided to go with the number strat because a percentage strat is second tier. They are hoping the number strat show the promotion board or whom ever is looking at it that they took the time to strat me because my performance merited it.

He also took the time to explaine why I was stratified #3. I had 3 contributing factors that lead to there decision:

1. "to much focus on just what was on my plate" I needed to reach out and look for opportunities outside my assigned duties that would of affected our organization. I can see that point of view to a certain degree. I should have volunteered to run the organizations picnic or flag officer visits.

2. I had a surgical procedure that put me on convalescent leave for almost 3 months. Prior to that procedure I was deployed and while deployed we had a complete leadership change out both O5/CC and O6/CC. So basically they didn't know me and were not going to strat me just based on my previous OPRs.

3. Timing. By the time I had returned back to work and gave them a solid three months of work they were impressed but they had already racked and stacked everyone and OPRs were already being processed. So basically it doesn't matter if I would have laid solid gold eggs our O6/CC's policy is he will only stratify the top 3 and they only do the rack and stack twice a year.

I don't like the whole rack and stack process where it leads to someone being stratified 6 months before there rating period is over. But I get it people's OPRs close out at different times. Considering my challenges I faired alright compared to some of my other peers. And I really appreciated the boss sitting down with me to talk and being honest about it; even though I had to request it. Hard pill to swallow especially being that I only have one more OPR before my O-4 board and I am pcsing in a couple weeks.

[panchbarnes]

He also took the time to explaine why I was stratified #3. I had 3 contributing factors that lead to there decision:

1. "to much focus on just what was on my plate" I needed to reach out and look for opportunities outside my assigned duties that would of affected our organization. I can see that point of view to a certain degree. I should have volunteered to run the organizations picnic or flag officer visits.

Gen Welsh, I hope you are reading this.

Hard pill to swallow especially being that I only have one more OPR before my O-4 board and I am pcsing in a couple weeks.

Well at least you are not PCSing right before the O-4 board. You just need to fight for that Group Exec job at the new base to get a better strat and the DP.

On a related note, met a Sq/CC recently who goes around telling CGOs to get that Masters degree now in order to get promoted. He supposedly hands out a checklist (that includes a container for volunteering) to his CGOs to complete.

[Techsan]

On a related note, met a Sq/CC recently who goes around telling CGOs to get that Masters degree now in order to get promoted. He supposedly hands out a checklist (that includes a container for volunteering) to his CGOs to complete.

We must see said checklist.

[DirkDiggler]

On a related note, met a Sq/CC recently who goes around telling CGOs to get that Masters degree now in order to get promoted. He supposedly hands out a checklist (that includes a container for volunteering) to his CGOs to complete.

If he's including AADs in his rack and stack then he's shortly going to be in trouble. A Gp/CC I know that recently went through the CC course at Maxwell told me that its being emphasized from on high that commanders will not have AADs on their R/S. As to it being considered unofficially who knows.

[HeloDude]

If he's including AADs in his rack and stack then he's shortly going to be in trouble. A Gp/CC I know that recently went through the CC course at Maxwell told me that its being emphasized from on high that commanders will not have AADs on their R/S. As to it being considered unofficially who knows.

A few months ago my staff job O-6 told a few of us that since they haven't been specifically told that they can't use it to rack/stack people that he and others are still using it as one of their metrics.

[17D_guy]

Still not sure why the Enlisted get a SCOD for their rack/stack.. but we're stuck with the, "We strated a guy who left 4 months ago #1.. so..."

How about we close out OPRs a few months before promotion broads, and work assignments around it. Sure, there's still some folks who would get screwed, but that's just how it is sometimes. The vast majority of folks would work out better.

[Krypto]

Anybody know when they usually post the promotion milestone chart on mypers for the next year? I'm looking at the PRF accounting dates for LAF (to Major). I can see that in 2014 it was June and in 2015 it was April. Any guess if the trend will continue?