Promotion and PRF Information

[Guardian]

Sounds like there might be a question buried in there somewhere Tonka......fire away.

[xaarman]

On March 9, 2016 at 8:41 PM, ArcticGator said:

Anyone have a link to a good site with some old sanitized/anonymous PRFs?  I'm trying to teach some of my guys how the whole thing works and it's much easier to learn from examples. 

PM me your .mil address, our wing has some pretty good PowerPoints/info on it

[Chuck17]

 

[TnkrToad]

On March 8, 2016 at 0:16 AM, Duck said:

Not saying it would help the retention problem, but didn't we push back the Majors board as a result of high retention just 4 years ago?

There's always been an accordion effect in promotion board timing. In the early 90s, folks met their O-4 boards really late--I want to say at the 10.5 or 11 year point. The AF was in the early stages of the post-Cold War drawdown, so there were more than enough FGOs in the shrinking AF. Boards went ever-later, and promotion rates plummeted. Fast forward a few years--large Cold War-era cohorts retire, airline hiring picks up, fewer get commissioned per year, etc., and magically, folks start meeting boards earlier and promotion rates at those boards increase. When the Air Force shrunk again, in order to pay for recapitalization, promotions slowed down.

The Air Force is set to expand again, albeit not hugely so, and the civilian economy (particularly the airline industry) is enticing folks to separate/retire. Seems like a pretty good formula for meeting boards earlier and/or higher promo rates. Where we stand right now, folks meet their O-6 board at 20 yrs, which means some--those who get selected 2 below for O-5 and O-6--can get selected at 16 yrs and be pinned on at 17 yrs. I can only begin to imagine how young our "bright and shiny" types will be, particularly in the manned flying community, as airline hiring takes its toll.  

TT

[Hot Sauce Hoy]

So what do you smart guys consider to be the key factors in getting promoted with a "p" to O-5?  (Yes I am facing that) I saw someone post earlier that historically 85% that get passed over have no SR strat. 

[Chicken]

6 hours ago, Hot Sauce Hoy said:

So what do you smart guys consider to be the key factors in getting promoted with a "p" to O-5?  (Yes I am facing that) I saw someone post earlier that historically 85% that get passed over have no SR strat. 

No idea what the stats are this year.. and depends on your command.  I don't have the info in front of me but AFSOC last year had a promotion rate of something like 18% for folks with a P.

[di1630]

So what do you smart guys consider to be the key factors in getting promoted with a "p" to O-5?  (Yes I am facing that) I saw someone post earlier that historically 85% that get passed over have no SR strat. 

You gotta be in the top 50% of P's....a few decent strats, probably more importantly though job progression, duties held, etc.

[Right Seat Driver]

On 3/8/2016 at 11:22 PM, Lord Ratner said:

Interesting data point I heard. Apparently all 6 school selects at Lakenheath have declined. Rumor has it a council of the elders was called to figure out how this happened... They must not read BO.net

How solid is this data?  Something similar happened a few years back in which a number of fighter Patches declined and punched for greener pastures.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Right Seat Driver
Autocorrect.

[Lord Ratner]

35 minutes ago, Right Seat Driver said:

How solid is this data?  Something similar happened a few years back in which a number of fighter Patches declined and punched for greener pastures.

Pretty solid, though not so much I'd bet my wings on it. Info is from someone in a very logical position to know it. 

Not surprising these days. I've been hearing similar stories, though this is the first 100% decline rate I've heard of.

[Hot Sauce Hoy]

11 hours ago, di1630 said:

You gotta be in the top 50% of P's....a few decent strats, probably more importantly though job progression, duties held, etc.

I have good job progression and solid strats and good top 10% Maj strats at SQ and WG level, numerous FGO awards including SQ FGOY, and a SR push that strats me 1/5 IAPZ and "if I had a DP, he'd get it" with all the right pushes. My SR didn't have a DP, and I didn't get one at MLR. I feel good about being in a good position but you never really know with a "p" and what the competition is bringing to the table. 

[TMFan]

On 3/10/2016 at 5:12 PM, Chuck17 said:

 

Chuck, link doesn't work anymore.  Would you mind reposting?

[ArcticGator]

do all MAJCOMs/Wings/Staffs get the same DP allocation rate?  It seems like they vary slightly by MAJCOM  

[C17Driver]

do all MAJCOMs/Wings/Staffs get the same DP allocation rate?  It seems like they vary slightly by MAJCOM  

It's based on pool size.

[Herk Driver]

The numbers are based on pool size. The allocation rate is the same and there is a minimum number of eligibles required to get at least one DP.

[di1630]

You gotta be in the top 50% of P's....a few decent strats, probably more importantly though job progression, duties held, etc.

I have good job progression and solid strats and good top 10% Maj strats at SQ and WG level, numerous FGO awards including SQ FGOY, and a SR push that strats me 1/5 IAPZ and "if I had a DP, he'd get it" with all the right pushes. My SR didn't have a DP, and I didn't get one at MLR. I feel good about being in a good position but you never really know with a "p" and what the competition is bringing to the table. 

Sounds like you'll be fine. I've known people with less get picked up in years with lower rates. Chances are that if you look in the mirror honestly and say "I'd be surprised if I got passed over", you won't. Of all the guys I've met passed over, few to none have been a total shock.

[General Chang]

On March 11, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Hot Sauce Hoy said:

I have good job progression and solid strats and good top 10% Maj strats at SQ and WG level, numerous FGO awards including SQ FGOY, and a SR push that strats me 1/5 IAPZ and "if I had a DP, he'd get it" with all the right pushes. My SR didn't have a DP, and I didn't get one at MLR. I feel good about being in a good position but you never really know with a "p" and what the competition is bringing to the table. 

Based ONLY on this info, without looking at your record or PRF...you are in good shape.

[Bender]

I have good job progression and solid strats and good top 10% Maj strats at SQ and WG level, numerous FGO awards including SQ FGOY, and a SR push that strats me 1/5 IAPZ and "if I had a DP, he'd get it" with all the right pushes. My SR didn't have a DP, and I didn't get one at MLR. I feel good about being in a good position but you never really know with a "p" and what the competition is bringing to the table. 

How are we in a spot where a guy even wonders here? Unless there is "the rest of the story", this is a slam dunk. Almost makes think there is something you're now sharing and trying to get a half truth here.

Bendy

[guineapigfury]

Can a guy ever be sure regardless of what his record is?  Every year there is that one guy with a DP who doesn't make it.

[Hot Sauce Hoy]

4 hours ago, Bender said:

How are we in a spot where a guy even wonders here? Unless there is "the rest of the story", this is a slam dunk. Almost makes think there is something you're now sharing and trying to get a half truth here.

Bendy

I do not have anything negative I am not sharing. Really it comes down to I haven't seen a lot of other O-5 PRF's to compare myself to.  I was hopeful ( and thought I would) get a DP but realize that I am on a small staff and my SR doesn't have an outright one.  I probably would have gotten one at my old wing. I figure I must have been going against a bunch of IDE in res grad guys at the MLR. I have not personally talked to my SR about it because he is a 3 star and has a very busy schedule and has been TDY a lot. My supervisor (O-6) said he would be surprised if I don't get promoted.

This is the first time I have ever gotten a "p" (of course it's only my 2nd IPZ PRF) and have never been an exec so I don't really know how to compare myself against the competition.  "P" has always had a negative connotation amongst my peers--like once they hear you got a "p" they assume you are going to get passed over. 

[panchbarnes]

From yesterday's exec help wanted ads:

QUALIFICATIONS:
- Mandatory:
  -- Lt Col/Maj may apply
  -- Master’s Degree and PME commensurate with grade (In-res or Correspondence)

QUALIFICATIONS:
- Mandatory:
  -- Non-rated Lt Col or Maj required
  -- Master’s Degree and PME commensurate with grade (In-res or Correspondence)

 

[Jaded]

LOL.

Edit: dude, please send that email to Tony Carr. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Jaded

[General Chang]

1 hour ago, panchbarnes said:

From yesterday's exec help wanted ads:

QUALIFICATIONS:
- Mandatory:
  -- Lt Col/Maj may apply
  -- Master’s Degree and PME commensurate with grade (In-res or Correspondence)

QUALIFICATIONS:
- Mandatory:
  -- Non-rated Lt Col or Maj required
  -- Master’s Degree and PME commensurate with grade (In-res or Correspondence)

 

Makes sense, if you think about it.  People seeking out these jobs voluntarily are looking to put themselves on a trajectory toward Colonel.  If they don't already have their Master's degree complete as a Major (and especially Lt Col), the person volunteering for this job is likely to be working on one in the very near future.  The GO for whom he/she will be working wants your undivided attention/no distractions (like Master's degrees) for the 1-2 years the exec asst is in the job.  These are not run-of-the-mill Sq/CC or even Wg/CC EA jobs.

You guys really needs to open the aperture of your minds a little bit before you come onto his forum and spew about stuff.  Critical thinking is appreciated.

Edited March 19, 2016 by General Chang

[Jaded]

Good critical thinking Chang. Requiring CGOs to have masters degrees for advancement never had second order effects before. Should be fine this time too. 

 

Kind of standard for A1 though - can't think more than 1 assignment cycle down the line. 

[Guardian]

Good critical thinking Chang. Requiring CGOs to have masters degrees for advancement never had second order effects before. Should be fine this time too. 

 

Kind of standard for A1 though - can't think more than 1 assignment cycle down the line. 

Makes it seem like the one criticizing for lack of critical thinking is themselves not thinking or participating in a forum using critical thinking, just big words.

[panchbarnes]

 

So many wrongs with your thinking...

3 hours ago, General Chang said:

Makes sense, if you think about it.  People seeking out these jobs voluntarily are looking to put themselves on a trajectory toward Colonel. 

Don't disagree with people volunteering for these positions are looking for personal gains.  But the AF has been hiring/promoting careerists/box-checkers for the past decade+ and I'd say that hasn't turned out well for the AF based on the AF-wide retention issues and the strategic-level miscues.  Of course, you'd disagree with that assessment.

3 hours ago, General Chang said:

The GO for whom he/she will be working wants your undivided attention/no distractions (like Master's degrees) for the 1-2 years the exec asst is in the job. 

I'm glad you acknowledged that a working on a Master's degree is a distraction to a person's primary AF job.  So it's okay for a GO to get your undivided attention but not your current/previous bosses and colleagues because you want to be on that O-6 trajectory.  Got it!

3 hours ago, General Chang said:

These are not run-of-the-mill Sq/CC or even Wg/CC EA jobs.

You sound arrogant here, but typical for the number of careerists I've encountered in my career.  Can you explain what a "run-of-the-mill" Sq/CC job is as opposed to a "special" Sq/CC job?  At any point in your career, does the word "leadership" ever come across your mind (besides required PME readings/discussions) and/or is a part of your normal decision-making process?