Promotion and PRF Information

[otsap]

Yes, they were passed over as well.

[Warrior]

Any word on when the O4 list gets released?


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[FlyinGrunt]

Public release is on Thursday at 1400Z.  Some dudes are already getting told by their commanders

[guineapigfury]

I was notified today.  Not promoted on the second look with a DNP, continuation offered.  Fuck my life; I wanted a check on the way out.  I have multiple negative indicators and I'm sitting here beer in hand trying to figure out what else I could have done to get fired.  Apparently we're really desperate for pilots.  At least I get out of my ADSC early.

[Lord Ratner]

I was notified today.  Not promoted on the second look with a DNP, continuation offered.   my life; I wanted a check on the way out.  I have multiple negative indicators and I'm sitting here beer in hand trying to figure out what else I could have done to get fired.  Apparently we're really desperate for pilots.  At least I get out of my ADSC early.

Wow! Continuation offered? That's surprising.

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[Lord Ratner]

How does continuation work? Is there a minimum ADSC with it? Can you accept continuation and decide to separate six months later?

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[guineapigfury]

I was notified via phone, so I haven't seen the paperwork yet.  My understanding is that if I accept it (I won't), then my current ADSCs come back into force but there is no additional ADSC for accepting it.  I should get a look at the paperwork probably next week, I'll update then.

[Ram]

Free agency has its own strong points, I bet...


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[Day Man]

9 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

I was notified via phone, so I haven't seen the paperwork yet.  My understanding is that if I accept it (I won't), then my current ADSCs come back into force but there is no additional ADSC for accepting it.  I should get a look at the paperwork probably next week, I'll update then.

if you're not looking at the airlines, PM me for (free) resume assistance.

[FlyinGrunt]

You've got 60 days from Thursday to give them an answer.  Why not let Big Blue squirm a bit waiting?

[Homestar]

12 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

How does continuation work? Is there a minimum ADSC with it? Can you accept continuation and decide to separate six months later?

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1. No.

2. Yes. Assuming you are otherwise ADSC complete. 

[guineapigfury]

3 hours ago, FlyinGrunt said:

You've got 60 days from Thursday to give them an answer.  Why not let Big Blue squirm a bit waiting?

That's appealing in its way, but I plan on being gone by mid-January.  I want to get this show on the road, and realistically I probably need to be mostly outprocessed prior to Christmas break.

[LookieRookie]

14 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

I was notified via phone, so I haven't seen the paperwork yet.  My understanding is that if I accept it (I won't), then my current ADSCs come back into force but there is no additional ADSC for accepting it.  I should get a look at the paperwork probably next week, I'll update then.

Was it in this thread that someone gambled with neither a yay or nay to see if they would get severance?

[FlyinGrunt]

I'm gonna be lazy and not quote the reg (officer promotions, IIRC), but I already looked that up.  If you don't answer within the 60 day window, MPF considers that a "decline" and starts the separation process.

[bennynova]

APart from what was already said, continuation is good u til 20 years as an O3, but you can cut out whenever you want prior to that, with no separation benefits

 

 

 

[Twelve-tribes]

Not sure if I should post this here or on "what is wrong with the AF". Anyways just passed over on my second board P on both with over 7 years of ADSC left. I was a cross flow guy WSO to pilot no negative indicators no busted checkrides. I did everything the AF asked of me, worked my ass off to get to UPT, SRO in UPT, 3 deployments, upgraded to AC in 20 months it just totally baffles me. I should be a qualified IP in a few months. All I can say is what a waste of resources on the AF part and thanks for the thousands of dollars in training, helping me get qualified for my ATP, allowing me to become a CFI/CFII. The airlines/corporate world will really appreciate you training me up for them and I thank you as well. I really can't see why I would continue. I am hoping a reserve opportunity works out and I can land a airline gig. It really would be a dream come true. In addition, 2 other guys in my PIT class were passed up as well only 1st looks but I looked at one of the guys records and it is absolutely crazy MWS IP with multiple awards and no negative indicators. So much for the pilot shortage. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Twelve-tribes

[Ram]

It's clear that USAF needs to establish separate boards for rated officers.

Tell me why I'm wrong, please.


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[sqwatch]

Not sure if I should post this here or on "what is wrong with the AF". Anyways just passed over on my second board P on both with over 7 years of ADSC left. I was a cross flow guy F15E WSO to C130 pilot no negative indicators no busted checkrides. I did everything the AF asked of me, worked my ass off in the mudhen to get to UPT, SRO in UPT, 3 deployments, upgraded to AC in 20 months it just totally baffles me. I am currently at PIT which makes it even better I should be a qualified T6 IP in a few months. All I can say is what a waste of resources on the AF part and thanks for the thousands of dollars in training, helping me get qualified for my ATP, allowing me to become a CFI/CFII once PIT is done. The airlines/corporate world will really appreciate you training me up for them and I thank you as well. I really can't see why I would continue. I am hoping a reserve opportunity works out and I can land a airline gig. It really would be a dream come true. In addition, 2 other guys in my PIT class were passed up as well only 1st looks but I looked at one of the guys records and it is absolutely crazy MWS IP with multiple awards and no negative indicators. So much for the pilot shortage. 

And the inverted spin continues... assuming you didn't squeeze the boss's wife's cans at the xmas party, the stubbornness of our service to not reform promotion for pilots- especially in a manning crisis- mystifies me. When the services officer is sent to pilot training for failing to ensure there are towels at the gym, I will acknowledge the value of our promotion system. Until then, operators get a pass for deployments, upgrades and formal training.

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[panchbarnes]

Time to put the HPO program to sleep.  I opine, that it is the root of AF's woes.  We do not need to groom butterbars to be politicians.  Good tacticians (personnelist, finance, flyers, and etc...it is AFSC agnostic) will make better senior leaders then some arbitrary shinny penny that never worked the issues at the lowest level.  How on earth are we still advertising O-2 exec jobs via the AMS Robot in this manning environment?  That is FWA worthy right there.  As an O-3, you are not competitive for strats and DPs if you are not an ADO or an exec (sq level blah, better to be gp and higher).  As a matter of fact, you are doing it wrong if you are still at the Sq level by the time your O-4 or O-5 board meets (unless you are a legal DO).  Probably shouldn't be at the gp level if you are meeting the O-5 board.  But I digress, eliminate all the legal and illegal CGO exec billets (looking at you Lt Col), let the O-3s and below focus on tactical proficiency (again regardless of AFSC) and evaluate them accordingly.  if you are truly sierra hotel, you'd still ace the exec jobs at the O-4+ levels, and go on to be a great DO/Sq CC/Joint Staff superstar.  Lastly, if you can't get by without an Exec as an O-5 then you need to tell your boss the ground truth and fight for more people or step up and drop the least essential tasks *gasp*. 

Sorry if I offend any HPOs on this forum, but we have repeatedly seen poor leadership, planning, and execution across all levels for the past decade or so and look where we are at now as a service.

[Craftsman]

So if you were just passed over on this board (07) year group, you are f'd as the (08) board meets in march so nothing will change in your prf but your meeting your above the line in 6 months. Does this check? That is now an even more f'd system. The same will go for the (08) guys meet in march 2017 if you are passed over you will go into the (09) which will meet 6-9 months later in dec of 17.


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[FlyinGrunt]

Yeah.  Here comes stop loss after we double-tap dozens of more pilots between the 07/08/09 crunch.  What do you think . . . in effect March 2018?

[HeloDude]

12 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Time to put the HPO program to sleep.  I opine, that it is the root of AF's woes.  We do not need to groom butterbars to be politicians.  Good tacticians (personnelist, finance, flyers, and etc...it is AFSC agnostic) will make better senior leaders then some arbitrary shinny penny that never worked the issues at the lowest level.  How on earth are we still advertising O-2 exec jobs via the AMS Robot in this manning environment?  That is FWA worthy right there.  As an O-3, you are not competitive for strats and DPs if you are not an ADO or an exec (sq level blah, better to be gp and higher).  As a matter of fact, you are doing it wrong if you are still at the Sq level by the time your O-4 or O-5 board meets (unless you are a legal DO).  Probably shouldn't be at the gp level if you are meeting the O-5 board.  But I digress, eliminate all the legal and illegal CGO exec billets (looking at you Lt Col), let the O-3s and below focus on tactical proficiency (again regardless of AFSC) and evaluate them accordingly.  if you are truly sierra hotel, you'd still ace the exec jobs at the O-4+ levels, and go on to be a great DO/Sq CC/Joint Staff superstar.  Lastly, if you can't get by without an Exec as an O-5 then you need to tell your boss the ground truth and fight for more people or step up and drop the least essential tasks *gasp*. 

Sorry if I offend any HPOs on this forum, but we have repeatedly seen poor leadership, planning, and execution across all levels for the past decade or so and look where we are at now as a service.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except this notion that being an ADO (at whatever rank) is good for the career--at best you break even in that posistion.  ADO is at best a holding pattern while you wait for a more legitimate job/better PCS to open up, and often the ADO office is just a place to put guys who aren't able to do much else career wise, regardless of the rank.  Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome place to be if you just want to fly the line and help mentor the young guys (which is very important), but it's not some type of box that needs to be checked if you have higher career goals.  I've heard this thought (i.e. I need to become an ADO because of reason X) among the younger guys in the squadron level over the past several years and this needs to be understood for those who are trying to get to the next level.  But like I said, if someone just wants to fly and help out the squadron and the younger guys, then that's cool too.  Either way, just know how you're playing the game.  YMMV. 

[HeloDude]

7 hours ago, Craftsman said:

So if you were just passed over on this board (07) year group, you are f'd as the (08) board meets in march so nothing will change in your prf but your meeting your above the line in 6 months. Does this check? That is now an even more f'd system. The same will go for the (08) guys meet in march 2017 if you are passed over you will go into the (09) which will meet 6-9 months later in dec of 17.


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In general, if you're passed over, you're done making rank...unless you're in that 3% category that gets a DP ABZ because your senior rater realizes that you should have never been passed over in the first place.  So the fact that the boards are more closer together doesn't help much, but for the vast majority of those passed over it wouldn't have mattered either way.

[panchbarnes]

38 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except this notion that being an ADO (at whatever rank) is good for the career--at best you break even in that posistion.  ADO is at best a holding pattern while you wait for a more legitimate job/better PCS to open up, and often the ADO office is just a place to put guys who aren't able to do much else career wise, regardless of the rank.  Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome place to be if you just want to fly the line and help mentor the young guys (which is very important), but it's not some type of box that needs to be checked if you have higher career goals.  I've heard this thought (i.e. I need to become an ADO because of reason X) among the younger guys in the squadron level over the past several years and this needs to be understood for those who are trying to get to the next level.  But like I said, if someone just wants to fly and help out the squadron and the younger guys, then that's cool too.  Either way, just know how you're playing the game.  YMMV. 

Valid explanation, thanks for the insight. 

In my experience, some officers grew up believing in order to be competitive for strats/DPs you need to have: 1. continuous duty title progression with increasing leadership responsibilities (valid) and 2. close physical proximity to Sq/CC (face time) for influence.  Might explain the ADO phenomenon you are hearing among the junior folks.  I will add that the flyer ADOs I worked with (small sample size) have been nothing but good dudes/dudettes. 

[Jaded]

Your situation sounds similar to what happened to quite a few FAIPs in 2012. It was a dumb move to pass those guys over then; it's a dumb move to pass you guys over now. Use it to your advantage, get out as soon as you can, and get picked up by a guard or reserve unit if you want to keep flying for the military.