Promotion and PRF Information

[Chuck17]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

 I also talked with my senior rater afterwords- he didn't believe in putting "definitely promote" in a push line (there's a checkbox for that), and was somewhat surprised to hear that it was a common thing in the sample of records afpc had to brief from.

Inexcusable. That is most definitely a thing...

Glad it worked out. 

Chuck

[Bender]

Inexcusable. That is most definitely a thing...
Glad it worked out. 
Chuck

That's is pretty crazy. Maybe we should right this stuff down, so there isn't a possibility of not knowing it's a thing. At the same time, since there is a check box, why is it a thing.

DNP, P w/o DP, P w/ DP, DP w/o DP, DP with DP...now I can do zero work to group the top 20%. It was more like top 5% on that O-5 board, but whatever...

For a system that is in one way so streamlined (get school to get school), there are some seriously weird shit that still goes on.

I didn't know that was a thing...priceless. Probably said it with a straight face too...

Bendy


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Guest]

AFPC over the phone counseling: I did not know that was a thing. Is that counseling limited to passed over folks only?

[Chuck17]

4 hours ago, Bender said:

 

That's is pretty crazy....

DNP, P w/o DP, P w/ DP, DP w/o DP, DP with DP...now I can do zero work to group the top 20%...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

 

Now you've cracked the code... Not saying I agree with it, just saying...

Chuck

[bennynova]

4 hours ago, 1111 said:

AFPC over the phone counseling: I did not know that was a thing. Is that counseling limited to passed over folks only?

Don't know if it's limited, but it's part of the passed over process.  Name/number is listed for you to contact.  I'm surprised so many here had good experience with them, as I did not.  (They gave me no information I didn't already know).... and I knew very little at the time.

Seems to be quite a few passed over on here    Hope everyone's doing well!

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by bennynova

[Weezer]

On 6/3/2017 at 7:46 PM, soupafly06 said:

Have any passed over guys done the over the phone counseling with AFPC? If so, did you find it worthwhile or just a giant waste of time (like I suspect it probably is)?

I did last year and made it APZ this go-round w/ a P.  It was extremely helpful in my situation.  At the very least, it will let you know if your issue is something you can fix in a year (a poorly written PRF/push line) or if it is not (bad/no recent strats or inconsistent OPR push lines).

It does take a while to get an appointment (mine was in August last year).  The lady you talk to is pretty thorough, and as far as I know, she's the only one who does it.

[Weezer]

On 6/3/2017 at 3:36 PM, bennynova said:

 

Line 9:  Senior Rater comments...  the 2 best things to have on here are My X/XX Eligibles at the beginning... your CC can sneak in a current strat (if not on your last OPR) such as, currently my #4/54 Capts...   the end should also include school push, job push, and most importantly --Definitely Promote!.    even if you don't have DP checked below it.

 

 

From my AFPC counseling and other sources:  for O-5, the job push should be for command...in the AF's eyes, Lt Cols are commanders, so a push for anything else is a message from your SR the you don't have the full potential to perform at the next higher grade...

[Weezer]

Just now, hatedont said:

You shouldn't have to call AFPC. Your leadership should be telling you how to get promoted. It shouldn't be a secret to promotion. 

My leadership sends out emails if you want feedback sessions before or after your boards. I never ask because if you are telling me now, its probably too late. 

Agreed that your leadership should be providing you feedback (mine did not when I got passed over).  I think it's helpful to have feedback outside your chain as well.  Even if your SR was on the board, they are sworn to secrecy, and may not have had records on their docket that would be right to compare yours to.  Sometimes your leadership could be actively trying to screw you over, too...

The AFPC phone call is a post mortem on your specific record compared to low selects/high non-selects from your specific board.  Your leadership is not likely to have anything that specific.

 

 

[dream big]

3 hours ago, Weezer said:

Agreed that your leadership should be providing you feedback (mine did not when I got passed over).  I think it's helpful to have feedback outside your chain as well.  Even if your SR was on the board, they are sworn to secrecy, and may not have had records on their docket that would be right to compare yours to.  Sometimes your leadership could be actively trying to screw you over, too...

The AFPC phone call is a post mortem on your specific record compared to low selects/high non-selects from your specific board.  Your leadership is not likely to have anything that specific.

 

 

Aren't SRs by reg supposed to sit down with you and give you feedback, or maybe I'm thinking of the actual PRF itself? 

As for actively screwing, a former commander I had the privilege to exec for would brag about how he will screw over people's careers if they don't fit his mold of leadership.  If there is karma he will be a known entity to said folks at Delta/United/AA when he goes in for his interview, if he makes it that far.  

Conversely, another former commander would sit every officer down after every OPR, PRF and wouldn't hesitate to tell a guy he was #5/10/20 out of 20 and what they can do to fix it in the next year.  

 

 

[Weezer]

7 hours ago, dream big said:

Aren't SRs by reg supposed to sit down with you and give you feedback, or maybe I'm thinking of the actual PRF itself?  

 

 

I think in both cases they can delegate to a lower commander (group CC) in my case.  That feedback was more of making sure I wasn't going to hurt myself or others and letting me know it was all over and thanks for playing than what might have happened at the board.

I got my PRF in a sealed envelope.  I showed to my Sq/CC (who had forwarded the initial draft).  He looked at it and kind of furrowed his brow and said "Hmm...not how I would've done it but I guess different Senior Raters have their own way of doing it...you're probably fine."  Kind of knew I was screwed there.

[FourFans]

The best advice I've received since getting passed over came from another man who had a similar experience (checked the right boxes, nothing negative, excellent line operator, surprise non-promote):

"Your life just got a lot easier, you just don't know it yet."

He pointed out the importance of people (for however long they might stay in the AF) that can call a spade a spade without worrying if it will hurt their promotion chances.  He also pointed out that once you're done in the USAF, no one gives a second thought to if you're a retired major, colonel, or general...it simply doesn't matter.  If you're a pilot, a dispatcher, driver, or someone else, that's your job, end of story.

He flies big civil planes now where his work day is done and he's headed home before the engines stop spinning, and a driver is waiting on him to take him to the hotel which is already paid for.  (strange how you never hear about dispatchers, drivers, and baggage handlers in private aviation demanding the same treatment as pilots at those companies in name of "fairness")

That perspective made me realize it doesn't matter who gave the "you're not promoted" news nor how.  No changing it, and it's the AF's loss.  No matter how important they might be saying pilot retention is, they've made it clear again that line performance will not get you promoted nor continued.

To the AF, it all boils down to lines of text on a piece of paper, regardless of how excellent your aviation record, how many lives you've saved, or how many combat sorties you've flown.

To me, none of that defines my value as a pilot or a person.  If the AF doesn't want talent, that's their problem, not mine.

How much more do I need to know?

FF

[Homestar]

9 hours ago, dream big said:

Aren't SRs by reg supposed to sit down with you and give you feedback, or maybe I'm thinking of the actual PRF itself? 

 

You should get feedback from your immediate supervisor and/or rater, or Sq/CC if you're at the squadron.  If he/she doesn't schedule you, schedule yourself.

You should get PRF feedback from your SR.  If you're meeting an IPZ board your should schedule yourself when PRFs are done.  You should have probably seen a draft of the PRF before it was sent up.  The only thing new to you should be the push line on the bottom.

Like others have said, even if the DP box isn't checked, if you don't see the words "definitely promote" in the push line you have a big question to ask.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Homestar
grammar

[HossHarris]

4 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

The best advice I've received since getting passed over came from another man who had a similar experience (checked the right boxes, nothing negative, excellent line operator, surprise non-promote):

"Your life just got a lot easier, you just don't know it yet."

He pointed out the importance of people (for however long they might stay in the AF) that can call a spade a spade without worrying if it will hurt their promotion chances.  He also pointed out that once you're done in the USAF, no one gives a second thought to if you're a retired major, colonel, or general...it simply doesn't matter.  If you're a pilot, a dispatcher, driver, or someone else, that's your job, end of story.

He flies big civil planes now where his work day is done and he's headed home before the engines stop spinning, and a driver is waiting on him to take him to the hotel which is already paid for.  (strange how you never hear about dispatchers, drivers, and baggage handlers in private aviation demanding the same treatment as pilots at those companies in name of "fairness")

That perspective made me realize it doesn't matter who gave the "you're not promoted" news nor how.  No changing it, and it's the AF's loss.  No matter how important they might be saying pilot retention is, they've made it clear again that line performance will not get you promoted nor continued.

To the AF, it all boils down to lines of text on a piece of paper, regardless of how excellent your aviation record, how many lives you've saved, or how many combat sorties you've flown.

To me, none of that defines my value as a pilot or a person.  If the AF doesn't want talent, that's their problem, not mine.

How much more do I need to know?

FF

Being the grumpy old guy can be a hell of a lot of fun, too!

[Karl Hungus]

4 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

To me, none of that defines my value as a pilot or a person.  If the AF doesn't want talent, that's their problem, not mine.

 

This.

A strange game.  The only winning move is not to play.

[BFM this]

2 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Being the grumpy old guy can be a hell of a lot of fun, too!

Curmudgeon, if it pleases the court 

[dream big]

Getting passed over and getting to focus on flying/instructing/developing wingmen (not the catch all Air Force term) & copilots is a silver lining....IF you actually get to do that.  I've seen so many passed over guys shoved into a cubicle on wing staff flying once a month (instructors).  Their next door neighbors, the wing execs, are weapons officers.  Wtf are we doing..

[BashiChuni]

7 hours ago, Karl Hungus said:

This.

A strange game.  The only winning move is not to play.

so true.

[ImNotARobot]

2 hours ago, dream big said:

Getting passed over and getting to focus on flying/instructing/developing wingmen (not the catch all Air Force term) & copilots is a silver lining....IF you actually get to do that.  I've seen so many passed over guys shoved into a cubicle on wing staff flying once a month (instructors).  Their next door neighbors, the wing execs, are weapons officers.  Wtf are we doing..

The other phenomenon I've observed are passed-over guys being used as 179/365 cannon fodder precisely because they can never achieve bright/shiny status. Sad as hell when that soul was sold to any permutation of the multi-year bonus.

No other reason to stay at a company that has effectively gotten slave labor on the cheap with passed-over guys 'filling every undesirable hole' if you will.

<screaming GO TO THE AIRLINES! whiles typing>

[Skitzo]

Just a thought... wouldn't the shift to a summer board for O-5 cut down on Narrative Only PRFs for people going to school?

Typically folks PCS and get a NO, now SRs can actually divvy out DPs to shiny pennies instead of taking their chances with the school MLR or whatever that process is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

2 minutes ago, Skitzo said:

Just a thought... wouldn't the shift to a summer board for O-5 cut down on Narrative Only PRFs for people going to school?

Typically folks PCS and get a NO, now SRs can actually divvy out DPs to shiny pennies instead of taking their chances with the school MLR or whatever that process is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possibly, but wouldn't it also increase the rush to get a PRF written on a brand new dude fresh from school?  The school MLR is pretty successful.  DPs are still given (to some, same allocation % as big AF) with great success to P's.  100% IPZ promotion this year at ACSC anyway. 

 

[xaarman]

MyPers O-4 release status board updated, pushed back to Late June - Mid July

[Bode]

MyPers O-4 release status board updated, pushed back to Late June - Mid July

Surprised? Nope!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cragspider]

3 hours ago, xaarman said:

MyPers O-4 release status board updated, pushed back to Late June - Mid July

Not surprised at all considering the shit show of announcement of the one back in Feb of 16. That one rolled a while. 

[Duck]

MyPers O-4 release status board updated, pushed back to Late June - Mid July

Muthafvckers!!!! It freaking sat doing nothing at SAF for over 1 month and they wonder why we are so pissed off. B!tches can't even meet their own suspenses that they set for themselves. Getting a promotion select list to the under SECDEF to approve isn't freaking surgery people. What would you say you do here?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Bode]

Muthafvckers!!!! It freaking sat doing nothing at SAF for over 1 month and they wonder why we are so pissed off. B!tches can't even meet their own suspenses that they set for themselves. Getting a promotion select list to the under SECDEF to approve isn't freaking surgery people. What would you say you do here?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

And they can't seem to figure out how to get people to stay in such a dysfunctional organization.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk