Promotion and PRF Information

[dream big]

11 hours ago, Fatsalmon said:

C-130's at Yokota had a 100% promotion rate, both H's and J's.

Yokota always does well, but that's because it's Yokota and PACAF (vice AMC) and the base really shines.  Also, they sent a handful of 08 guys there for the transition, who were more or less the top of their peers.  The 08 class was always kicking ass at Yokota...i.e. "Hulk" ;) 

[BADFNZ]

7 hours ago, Azimuth said:

A majority of -130 guys at my last base that cross flowed had the biggest knee pads sewed into their bags. Maybe those are the only Herk folks promoted.

We've already covered this, but those are the type of people we try to get out of the community through programs like Phoenix.

[cragspider]

3 minutes ago, Hokie said:

When you turn down continuation, your separation date is set 6 months after the public release, no?  Have others successfully requested an earlier separation date?

It's no later than 6 months from the release date. You can set one up sooner if you would like. Which I would expect nothing less than that from guys who want out. 

[xaarman]

I just signed my declination of continuation sheet. It says "I understand that by declining continuation, I will be separated, effective the last day of the 6th month following approval of the board, under AFI 36-3207, Separating Commissioned Officers, unless I have an earlier voluntary DOS established or after completion of all Health Profession ADSC obligations incurred... blah blah blah"

 What the "board approval" date is, I'm not sure. I'll update when a DOS is in the system.

 

Also every sheet/memo/statement has in big, bold, and underlined letters that if I decline continuation, I am not entitled to Involuntary Separation Pay. Like, they really want you to know that.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by xaarman

[FourFans]

I wonder how deep Big Blue is going to bury the data about the number of pilots turning down continuation. 

That'd be a great slide for the AMC/A1 road show.

[guineapigfury]

7 hours ago, Hokie said:

When you turn down continuation, your separation date is set 6 months after the public release, no?  Have others successfully requested an earlier separation date?

I went from declining continuation to actual separation in 1 month.  The virtual outprocessing checklist can be completed in a couple of days if you're already done with TAPS and the separation physical.

[xaarman]

5 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

I wonder how deep Big Blue is going to bury the data about the number of pilots turning down continuation. 

That'd be a great slide for the AMC/A1 road show.

To be honest, I can't see AFPC, HAF/A1 or MAJCOM A1 caring about passed over Captains turning down continuation. They know pilots won't stay Captains unless they're prior enlisted and need it to make retirement. On the AFPC roadshows, a number was used for planned attrition, but I don't recall what it was.

 

However, I could see them caring about how many pilots were passed over in the first place.... but the Defense Officers Personnel Management Act (which mandates up or out and promotion by year group) overrides service specific job requirements. IMHO, nothing will change until Congress changes DOPMA.... and the branches don't want it changed because it's one of the few ways to separate (leaderships view of) underperformers. 

[nsplayr]

So looking at the data for CY 2017A LAF Major compared to 2016 for pilots specifically (since we have a pilot crisis don't ya know!)...

Summary

2017: 93.1% selection IPZ, 21.8% APZ

2016: 94.4% selection, 10.6% APZ

Details

PDE complete and DP = 100% both years

PDE complete and P 2017: 76% selection IPZ (182/239), 10% APZ (8/84)

PDE complete and P 2016: 83% selection IPZ (199/241), 20% APZ (17/87)

BL: Pilots in the rank of Captain were less competitive for promotion to Major this board than last board

For all other categories (CSO, ABM, Non-Rated Ops, & Mission Support) across the board all categories were more promotable in 2017 than in 2016 save for a 1-man-less erosion for APZ CSOs.

Super Double BL: the AF in as clear of terms as possible is demonstrating to pilots that they are not any more specifically wanted/needed at the rank of Major now during this "crisis" even compared to last year and 2015. Take action appropriately when considering outside opportunities.

Edit to add: to not sound too alarmist, the movements were relatively small. 24 pilots passed over who would have been promoted at last year's rate. And 19 of them can possibly be explained away by a 2% higher DP allocation rate, meaning DP is more important than ever in order to be promoted. 

Factor in the handful of Ducks that were clearly promotable but took themselves out of the running and maybe there ya have it.

Interpret the data how you will...my takeaway is that the AF is treating things like business as usual where the rubber meets the road, yet is talking like we're in some kind of pilot retention crisis. It's almost as if management's words don't match their actions...weird.

Edited July 20, 2017 by nsplayr

[Lord Ratner]

I just found out that an earlier separation date is at the discretion of your commander. I'm hoping to be out pretty quickly, but our unit is hurting for bodies, so I'm wondering how this plays out.

For those wondering, an earlier separation date has no effect on separation pay, unless you end up not making the minimum service required to qualify for the pay. Since they set my date for 31 December, there are no tax reasons for waiting the full 6 months, so I'm going to press for an early separation.

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[Danger41]

I wasn't going to post, but curiosity has gotten the better of me. Duck, aren't you worried about taking the rather drastic steps you're taking to get out of your commitment early affecting your transition to the ANG? If I was on the hiring board, I know I'd get a raised eyebrow with all the stuff you've said you did. 

And please don't just go "no". I'm seriously interested.

[bennynova]

18 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I wasn't going to post, but curiosity has gotten the better of me. Duck, aren't you worried about taking the rather drastic steps you're taking to get out of your commitment early affecting your transition to the ANG? If I was on the hiring board, I know I'd get a raised eyebrow with all the stuff you've said you did. 

And please don't just go "no". I'm seriously interested.

he had better be sure he can get out of any remaining ADSCs.... 

[Guest]

he had better be sure he can get out of any remaining ADSCs.... 

All ADSCs are negated when you decline continuation.


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[Duck]

I wasn't going to post, but curiosity has gotten the better of me. Duck, aren't you worried about taking the rather drastic steps you're taking to get out of your commitment early affecting your transition to the ANG? If I was on the hiring board, I know I'd get a raised eyebrow with all the stuff you've said you did. 

And please don't just go "no". I'm seriously interested.

Good question. Before I did any of this I had previously tried to Palace Chase back to my home ANG unit, you know back when we had too many pilots... I had already been hired with a Position Number way back then which they have kept open for me. Along the way I made it clear to them my intentions and they have been super cool with it all. Eventually I will need a waiver but right now they aren't having any problems with it. It also helps that my Guard unit is one of the few true Guard units left. The hatred for all things AD is still strong there, however they did just recently start wearing flight caps outside (all good things eventually come to an end). Still no saluting and all first name basis, including the Two-Star down at State HQ. All in all they have all been suooirtive with it (leadership included) and even said to expect my promotion to O-4 shortly after I arrive (whether true or not, I really don't care). In fact several in leadership there now were twice passed over Capts. Their main point is they want someone they don't mind hanging out/partying with for the next 10-20 years.

 

Life is good man.

 

 

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[Azimuth]

6 minutes ago, Duck said:

Good question. Before I did any of this I had previously tried to Palace Chase back to my home ANG unit, you know back when we had too many pilots... I had already been hired with a Position Number way back then which they have kept open for me. Along the way I made it clear to them my intentions and they have been super cool with it all. Eventually I will need a waiver but right now they aren't having any problems with it. It also helps that my Guard unit is one of the few true Guard units left. The hatred for all things AD is still strong there, however they did just recently start wearing flight caps outside (all good things eventually come to an end). Still no saluting and all first name basis, including the Two-Star down at State HQ. All in all they have all been suooirtive with it (leadership included) and even said to expect my promotion to O-4 shortly after I arrive (whether true or not, I really don't care). In fact several in leadership there now were twice passed over Capts. Their main point is they want someone they don't mind hanging out/partying with for the next 10-20 years.

 

Life is good man.

 

 

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Tankers?

[flyusaf83]

How does the AF assign line numbers within a year group?

[baileynme]

From AFPC site:

"Officers are positioned for promotion sequence based on the following criteria, applied in the order listed:

-Current Grade Date of Rank
-Previous grade date of rank, if applicable
-Total Active Federal Commissioned Service
-Total Federal Commissioned Service
-Regular officers will precede Reserve officers. Regular officers will rank among themselves based on date of Presidential nomination for appointment as a Regular officer
-Regular Air Force acceptance date; based on the date of the Air Force Form 133, Oath of Office
-Graduates of Service academies, appointed as Regular officers and assigned the same date of rank, on the active duty list in order of their graduation class standing
-Date of birth, with the earliest date taking precedence
-Reverse social security number, with the lowest number taking precedence"

From the looks of other Major selects TAFCS seemed to play the biggest part putting all the pilot types towards the end thanks to our six month "vacation".


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[bennynova]

There's a page on Mypers that gives a rundown

date of rank, date of ADSC, goes all the way down to last 4 of your SSN in reverse order if there's a tie.  

[Duck]

Rumor floating around that the P0417D board for '09 Capts has been moved up 2 months from December to October. Can anyone verify?


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[bennynova]

7 minutes ago, Duck said:

Rumor floating around that the P0417D board for '09 Capts has been moved up 2 months from December to October. Can anyone verify?


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Interesting.  I thought boards were moving in the other direction.  I'll check when I get to work next week if not already answered 

[BashiChuni]

5 hours ago, Duck said:

Rumor floating around that the P0417D board for '09 Capts has been moved up 2 months from December to October. Can anyone verify?


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I've heard the same rumor

[pawnman]

15 hours ago, bennynova said:

Interesting.  I thought boards were moving in the other direction.  I'll check when I get to work next week if not already answered 

They were until all the majors hit the end of their ADSC and bailed for the airlines.

Meanwhile, the promotion rate for rated officers continues to lag the MSG.

[JimNtexas]

Quick question from a long retired guy.   When I was on active duty the promotion board looked at your official photograph.  Every time a senior officer who had been on a promotion would talk about what they considered important, they would go on and on about how important that photo was to them.  Don't look angry, but don't smile like an idiot.   Be sure your ribbons are all there and they are not crooked.    NO MUSTACHE!  HAIRCUT HAIRCUT HAIRCUT.   Don't have a double chin.

Shortly after I retired in 1994 they took the photos out of the promotion jackets.

Given the USAF tendency to download the bombs and upload the torpedos I was wondering, do current promotion boards look at your official picture?

[Danger41]

I submitted this and still made it. I guess the standards have lowered.

[Newb]

Question:

With a continued decrease in the number of pilots coming up for promotion each year (due to the pilot shortage), will it be less competitive to promote to O-5 and above? Or does the promotion rate roughly remain the same? 

 

[pawnman]

46 minutes ago, Newb said:

Question:

With a continued decrease in the number of pilots coming up for promotion each year (due to the pilot shortage), will it be less competitive to promote to O-5 and above? Or does the promotion rate roughly remain the same? 

 

Hard to say.  In the midst of a rated retention crisis, this year's major and Lt Col promotion boards selected rated officers at a lower rate than MSG officers.  The overall number of MSG officers and rated officers competing for Lt Col were about equal.  I know a rated officer who was passed over for Lt Col with a DP on his PRF.

Bottom line: despite the shortage, the promotion boards don't seem to be looking at your primary AFSC when making decisions.