Promotion and PRF Information

[BFM this]

12 hours ago, dream big said:

 How many man hours does he then waste editing OPRs and PRFs for 0-4?

How many man hours do we waste on that one non-value added requirement: no white space.  It's easily 95% of the effort that goes into those things.  Plain English; articulate in two to three complete English sentences, why we should promote this officer.  Done.  Still room in the block?  Yes; did you complete the thought and make the case?  Then fuck it: done.

I just saved the USAF 100,000 officer man-hours in the next year.  Airmen's time.  Oh, wait, we talk about Airmen's time, but it's calculated as valueless, so never mind.

Edited September 14, 2017 by BFM this

[flyusaf83]

2 hours ago, BFM this said:

How many man hours do we waste on that one non-value added requirement: no white space.  It's easily 95% of the effort that goes into those things.  Plain English; articulate in two to three complete English sentences, why we should promote this officer.  Done.  Still room in the block?  Yes; did you complete the thought and make the case?  Then it: done.

I just saved the USAF 100,000 officer man-hours in the next year.  Airmen's time.  Oh, wait, we talk about Airmen's time, but it's calculated as valueless, so never mind.

I think it should be easier than that. No fluff in OPRs. Just strats. Give all of your people a positional strat, rank strat, and CGO/FGO strat.  Do it annually to replace OPRs. I have never understood why only the top 15-20 percent get strats when we promote 90-95 percent to Major and 60ish percent to Lt Col.  

#80/100 Captains should be good enough for Maj. And it lets that individual know that while he/she will make Major, he/she has to make improvements to make Lt Col.  This is a much better thing that to lump together the bottom 80-85 percent who don't get strats.

And then no time-wasting bullets.

[dream big]

6 hours ago, drewpey said:

Is this something to be angry about?  It was already a 90% promote rate, and if you are looking to get a strat you aren't concerned about pinning on, but rather getting a school slot.  This doesn't change that.

Higher promotion rates are better for everyone.  It gives people more flexibility in their careers without getting completely hosed because they didn't follow the expected career path.  Sure old crusties get their panties in a wad because "major used to mean something"...but the more off-ramps the USAF removes on the highway to LtCol the more likely the "flying-only" career path is for guys who just want to fly.  The checking of boxes for career progression (SOS, Masters, Flt/CC, ADO) is the epitome of kabuki theater, and the easier they make it to get promoted the less box-checking we have to deal with.

I for one welcome more FGOs into the court martial duty pool.

There are people mad about this along with eliminating school selects from the board: they seem to be the CGOC/nonner types who are mad they can't get ahead by out volunteering those actually deploying and doing the mission.  Heck, if for anything, I love these changes as it is a slap in the face for every careerist CGO.

[Pork Barrel]

9 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

cough *stop loss* cough

CH did warn people a while back...

 

Edited to add:

Snide remarks aside, it's a pretty insulting move to the people who busted their ass to progress to the next level.  Congratulations, for the majority of you folks, it doesn't matter how hard you worked to get that strat, you are no better than the person in the next cubicle over.  The few HPOs know who they are and won't be affected.  What matters is the AF will have plenty of "selects" to send to the various lower tier NAF/MAJCOM/Joint staff billets to appease the screaming commanders, who've had to hire extra contractors, and approve UFRs as stop gap solutions.  At the end, these "selects" will likely not advance to O-5 and be happy to retire as O-4s.  Air Force solves the manning problems it created and everyone is happy.

This is just another example how you and I are just a number in the big blues' eyes.  One solution fits all, which is natural for a large bureaucracy.  It'd be interesting to see the number of people who decline the promotion opportunity and just leave the service.

All I gotta say is the people, civilian or military, who were been involved with Force Management policies since the Debbie James days, needs to be fired immediately.  But we all know that will never happen.  Accountability is not one of our Core Values and is only a theory taught at Maxwell.

Or maybe, they are doing this in anticipation of major event(s) happening throughout the world in the near future...but what do I know?

CH was right all along...

/Rambling off

 

Maybe it exemplifies the lack of trust between personnel and the Air Force but I don't see how this carries over to O-5. Auto promote to O-4 and cull them instead at O-5 with APZ or Continuation (because at 14 or so they'll put in the extra six) or save the force some money with those under the old retirement system when they remove themselves. Paranoia? Absolutely.

The lesson learned should be DON'T LIE TO YOUR PEOPLE. It is never worth it. On the one hand we have auto promotion, separate school selects, and no non-value-added masters, and yet I nor anyone one else believes the Air Force because of at least a decade of broken promises and bounced checks to us and people we know. That doesn't disappear and takes a generation to filter out.

[Duck]

The only people I see this really screws are guys who are on their second look for this board. If they promote all the APZers it really fvcks them when they were making plans to separate/go to the Guard/provide for their family, etc. Hopefully they still take letters to the board in consideration.

[NKAWTG]

This is a completely pragmatic move, and totally unlike the air force I grew up with.  When they removed the school selects, and let the wings duke it out, the majority of work the promotion boards did is OBE.  It really wasn't worth the time to decide the 5-7% of the year group that gets passed over.  We've gone from the implied masters requirement among all the checkboxes to the ability to fog a mirror.  Times are a changing.

[Homestar]

6 hours ago, Duck said:

The only people I see this really screws are guys who are on their second look for this board. If they promote all the APZers it really fvcks them when they were making plans to separate/go to the Guard/provide for their family, etc. Hopefully they still take letters to the board in consideration.

There's no ADSC for promotion. All it does is make a guy serve his 10 year ADSC for UPT. Something 99.9% of all pilots intend to do anyway. 

[olevelo]

I think it should be easier than that. No fluff in OPRs. Just strats. Give all of your people a positional strat, rank strat, and CGO/FGO strat.  Do it annually to replace OPRs. I have never understood why only the top 15-20 percent get strats when we promote 90-95 percent to Major and 60ish percent to Lt Col.  
#80/100 Captains should be good enough for Maj. And it lets that individual know that while he/she will make Major, he/she has to make improvements to make Lt Col.  This is a much better thing that to lump together the bottom 80-85 percent who don't get strats.
And then no time-wasting bullets.

While on the surface that seems like a good idea, the problem is that not all units are created equal. Nor do they have similar sizes. #9/10 in small elite pool might be equivalent to #3/100 in another, but there's no way to quantify that.

[olevelo]

The only people I see this really screws are guys who are on their second look for this board. If they promote all the APZers it really fvcks them when they were making plans to separate/go to the Guard/provide for their family, etc. Hopefully they still take letters to the board in consideration.

My guess is that the 100% opportunity is for IPZ only. APZ folks are screwed. Or blessed, depending on your perspective.

[HU&W]

9 minutes ago, olevelo said:

My guess is that the 100% opportunity is for IPZ only. APZ folks are screwed. Or blessed, depending on your perspective.

My guess is that they promote every single APZ and continued Captain that doesn't have derogatory information.  Just as valid.

[Duck]

3 hours ago, Homestar said:

There's no ADSC for promotion. All it does is make a guy serve his 10 year ADSC for UPT. Something 99.9% of all pilots intend to do anyway. 

Have ya checked the Palace Chase webpage on mypers lately? I think most pilots are looking for an early out from the 10 year sentence. 

[Duck]

21 minutes ago, olevelo said:

My guess is that the 100% opportunity is for IPZ only. APZ folks are screwed. Or blessed, depending on your perspective.

I hope you're right.

11 minutes ago, HU&W said:

My guess is that they promote every single APZ and continued Captain that doesn't have derogatory information.  Just as valid.

I seriously hate you right now. Lol

[panchbarnes]

20 hours ago, drewpey said:

Is this something to be angry about?  It was already a 90% promote rate, and if you are looking to get a strat you aren't concerned about pinning on, but rather getting a school slot.  This doesn't change that.

Higher promotion rates are better for everyone.  It gives people more flexibility in their careers without getting completely hosed because they didn't follow the expected career path.  Sure old crusties get their panties in a wad because "major used to mean something"...but the more off-ramps the USAF removes on the highway to LtCol the more likely the "flying-only" career path is for guys who just want to fly.  The checking of boxes for career progression (SOS, Masters, Flt/CC, ADO) is the epitome of kabuki theater, and the easier they make it to get promoted the less box-checking we have to deal with.

I for one welcome more FGOs into the court martial duty pool.

Just a bit angry because of the people I know that were affected by the 2014 force shaping fiasco.  Good dudes getting passed over, RIFed, told to volunteer outside of duty hours in order to be on the RIF protected list.  It all could have been avoided.  Debbie James came from SAIC and was known as a downsizing specialist, so to prove her worth she decided to make the cut in one year, instead of doing it incrementally, because what worked in the private sector must work for the government right?  Sure there are political pressures from the top to make the downsizing happen, but she could have stalled or at least make an appearance of trying to fend off the wolves.  She was more than happy to "swing the axe" (borrowing Gen Goldfein's term).  I say fire the people involved with the the downsizing because they didn't talk sense into the SECAF and they did a horrible job of planning and executing the downsizing.

On a related note, I understand many flyers on here just want to fly and not do staff time because it's a shitty job.  However, the "Staff" can use more the "Been There Done That" flyers to lead or guide the planning and execution of plans and strategies.  You don't want to only push HPOs or unqualified folks into certain critical staff jobs for a year and move on.  We would have no credibility in the Joint world and it would be detrimental to the fighting force.

[flyusaf83]

1 hour ago, olevelo said:

While on the surface that seems like a good idea, the problem is that not all units are created equal. Nor do they have similar sizes. #9/10 in small elite pool might be equivalent to #3/100 in another, but there's no way to quantify that.

How is that any different then the situation now? Strats and awards (to a lesser degree) are the only things that the board cares about, anyway.  The rest is fluff.

[BashiChuni]

5 hours ago, Duck said:

Have ya checked the Palace Chase webpage on mypers lately? I think most pilots are looking for an early out from the 10 year sentence. 

Lol ok drama queen

its not a "10 year sentence"

yes im getting out as many others but I've had a great time. Maybe you can keep your overly cynical dramatic opinions to yourself a little more around here. 

[DUNBAR]

I think we're really missing the most noteworthy part of that AFPC news release.  Specifically, there is actually a duty title called "Chief of Workforce Development for the Air Force Talent Management Innovation Cell." 

I wonder if there's a Deputy Chief as well.

[drewpey]

8 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

 On a related note, I understand many flyers on here just want to fly and not do staff time because it's a shitty job.  However, the "Staff" can use more the "Been There Done That" flyers to lead or guide the planning and execution of plans and strategies.  You don't want to only push HPOs or unqualified folks into certain critical staff jobs for a year and move on.  We would have no credibility in the Joint world and it would be detrimental to the fighting force.

I completely agree. There are plenty of guys burned out from flying unit ops and are looking for predictability and to reconnect with family. Every time I had to interact with a TSOC staff there were HPO fliers without any relevant experience to help, and they were making poor decisions on our behalf out of ignorance. It would be nice to see these jobs open up for folks who haven't been designated HPO but would be solid workers for 3-4 years. Again the USAF puts too much emphasis on the job and not performance. From what I've seen in the USMC rating system it looks like they have it figured out. Weighted to prevent overrating everyone, and more emphasis on how well you did the job you were assigned. Then hopefully your have folks gravitate to the jobs they wanted to do without detriment to their career. Then after a few years remove the empty jobs no one wants to do! 

[Duck]

4 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Lol ok drama queen

its not a "10 year sentence"

yes im getting out as many others but I've had a great time. Maybe you can keep your overly cynical dramatic opinions to yourself a little more around here. 

Lol no. I'll drop the cynicism as soon as the AF starts living up to their end of the bargain. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Homestar]

11 hours ago, Duck said:

Have ya checked the Palace Chase webpage on mypers lately? I think most pilots are looking for an early out from the 10 year sentence. 

You're right. But most won't be approved or will only be approved for a 6 month curtailment. 

[Swizzle]

It's projected to be APZers and IPZers. I don't know if and where the APZ cutoff is...perhaps none as there is only 'IPZ' now by the new definition, or maybe they stop at 5 years APZ...who knows. I doubt they've thought of advertising this critical info.

[Duck]

3 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

It's projected to be APZers and IPZers. I don't know if and where the APZ cutoff is...perhaps none as there is only 'IPZ' now by the new definition, or maybe they stop at 5 years APZ...who knows. I doubt they've thought of advertising this critical info.

Standard AF. Fire, Aim, Ready.

[matmacwc]

Somebody is going to sneak one by the goalie and make O-4 when nobody saw it coming.  It should be entertaining.  

[olevelo]

How is that any different then the situation now? Strats and awards (to a lesser degree) are the only things that the board cares about, anyway.  The rest is fluff.

It's not any different, and the strat system sucks now too.

[BashiChuni]

3 hours ago, Duck said:

Lol no. I'll drop the cynicism as soon as the AF starts living up to their end of the bargain. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

bro I get it trust me. but good lord every post is doom and gloom. enjoy life a little baaaaBEEEEEEEEE!

its fine to be cynical, but when every post is dripping w/ negativity ...

anyways see you in the airlines.

 

ps the AF will never live up to their end of the bargin. #ProTip

Edited September 15, 2017 by BashiChuni

[Duck]

56 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

bro I get it trust me. but good lord every post is doom and gloom. enjoy life a little baaaaBEEEEEEEEE!

its fine to be cynical, but when every post is dripping w/ negativity ...

anyways see you in the airlines.

 

ps the AF will never live up to their end of the bargin. #ProTip

Valid criticism. I am just tired of getting the rug pulled out from under me and my family, one failed AF personnel policy at a time. I have not had it the worst at all by a long shot, but enough that me and my family went to lengths to get passed over on the very first O-4 board I had. Once I get out, I can promise to never post on here again.