Promotion and PRF Information

[BashiChuni]

I’ll never do a correspondence class. Ever. 

I remember my sq cc telling me to “knock out” SOS in correspondence to show I had the drive/desire to go In-Res... no thanks boss. 

How does that type of thinking make sense?

”hey dude get your undergrad degree done in correspondence to prove you want to go to college in-res” lol

 

[FourFans]

17 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

How does that type of thinking make sense?

 

That, right there, is where you went wrong.

[Seriously]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

I’ll never do a correspondence class. Ever. 

I remember my sq cc telling me to “knock out” SOS in correspondence to show I had the drive/desire to go In-Res... no thanks boss. 

How does that type of thinking make sense?

”hey dude get your undergrad degree done in correspondence to prove you want to go to college in-res” lol

 

It's lazy/uncourageous leadership looking for easy discriminators instead of getting know their people (and giving them honest feedback).

[MDDieselPilot]

9 minutes ago, Seriously said:

It's lazy/uncourageous leadership looking for easy discriminators instead of getting know their people (and giving them honest feedback).

Hah.  I completed ACSC in correspondence as a Capt almost a year before I pinned on O4 (we had a kid on the way, overseas PCS coming, and other stuff so wanted to get acsc off my mind). My sq/cc told me I should have completed it the previous calendar year (I finished in jan) so it looked even better on my SURF.  UFB.

[IDALPHA]

8 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

ACSC was totally worthless. That said, it’s not all that time consuming if you can fog a mirror. I was able to knock out most of the self paced classes in well under 2 hours, and the group classes took an average of maybe 6-9 hours spread over a couple weeks. It’s a fvcking haze, but it is a huge discriminator for promotion and is worth knocking out for that reason alone.

ACSC was totally worthless. SHACK

That said, it’s not all that time consuming if you can fog a mirror. This mindset is feeding the AF machine in a negative way. Rationalizing "worthless" tasks is EXACTLY the reason we are all stuck in this sinking ship.

 I was able to knock out most of the self paced classes in well under 2 hours, and the group classes took an average of maybe 6-9 hours spread over a couple weeks. Congrats.

[Right Seat Driver]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

I’ll never do a correspondence class. Ever. 

I remember my sq cc telling me to “knock out” SOS in correspondence to show I had the drive/desire to go In-Res... no thanks boss. 

How does that type of thinking make sense?

”hey dude get your undergrad degree done in correspondence to prove you want to go to college in-res” lol

 

As a young CGO my Sq/CC told me to do SOS in correspondence in order to compete for a In-Res slots because "The shoe clerks have this game figured out." BTW, the CGOC President had a seat in the wing staff meeting at the time. After he said that it all started to make sense, just look at the promotion rates of flyers vs. non-flyers recently.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the system. But we, as pilots, have lost control of the AIR FORCE.

[FUSEPLUG]

12 hours ago, pawnman said:

Based on the rate LtCols are getting out, we're gonna need more, not less.

Promotion by attrition.  I'm banking on it.

[Champ Kind]

49 minutes ago, MDDieselPilot said:

Hah.  I completed ACSC in correspondence as a Capt almost a year before I pinned on O4 (we had a kid on the way, overseas PCS coming, and other stuff so wanted to get acsc off my mind). My sq/cc told me I should have completed it the previous calendar year (I finished in jan) so it looked even better on my SURF.  UFB.

I know a guy that was given the exact same "mentoring", completed it the calendar year before O-4 pin-on, PCSed, and then in another "mentoring" session with his new CC was told he needed to bang out ACSC in correspondence to be competitive to go in-res.  That CC didn't even bother to look at the guy's SURF before imparting wisdom.  

All this talk about shoes vs. ops....  we do it to ourselves.  

Edited May 3, 2018 by Champ Kind

[Guest]

This mindset is feeding the AF machine in a negative way. Rationalizing "worthless" tasks is EXACTLY the reason we are all stuck in this sinking ship.

I am not rationalizing ACSC, I just realize that not doing it would give me a 0% chance of making O-5. If ACSC were completely masked then I would not have bothered with it.

[BashiChuni]

4 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

I am not rationalizing ACSC, I just realize that not doing it would give me a 0% chance of making O-5. If ACSC were completely masked then I would not have bothered with it.

Not a dig at you, But what it’s gonna take is guys acting with conviction and not doing the stupid stuff even if it’s to the detriment of their careers. 

Unless a mass group does that it won’t change. 

[Guest]

Not a dig at you, But what it’s gonna take is guys acting with conviction and not doing the stupid stuff even if it’s to the detriment of their careers. 
Unless a mass group does that it won’t change. 

If all the lemmings start jumping off the cliff I’ll join in, but I’m not going to be the first one committing career suicide.

[BashiChuni]

2 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

If all the lemmings start jumping off the cliff I’ll join in, but I’m not going to be the first one committing career suicide.

Fair enough. I’d argue you’re not a lemming if you do what you know is right. 

[Chicken]

I pulled out a DP for my O5 board 2APZ... Noticed that 2017 LAF APZ DPs were a 96% selection rate.  Anyone have any specific numbers or what the 4% non-selects were?

[FUSEPLUG]

4 hours ago, Chicken said:

Anyone have any specific numbers or what the 4% non-selects were?

Duck? 

[IDALPHA]

9 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

I am not rationalizing ACSC, I just realize that not doing it would give me a 0% chance of making O-5. If ACSC were completely masked then I would not have bothered with it.

0% chance?! Damn...

I've been hearing the term "promote to retain" being thrown around.... Just like FUSEPLUG said, I believe attrition will play a major factor in our future promotion boards. All that said, I suppose ill be the first to "commit career suicide".... I stand by my previous comment that ACSC in correspondence is a waste of time.

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, IDALPHA said:

0% chance?! Damn...

I've been hearing the term "promote to retain" being thrown around.... Just like FUSEPLUG said, I believe attrition will play a major factor in our future promotion boards. All that said, I suppose ill be the first to "commit career suicide".... I stand by my previous comment that ACSC in correspondence is a waste of time.

I'll be the second guy to support the "Me too career suicide movement." 

Those of you who are SAPR or resiliency appointees can be rest assured I will self report and do my sensitivity CBTs tomorrow morning. 

[MooseAg03]

I’m in the second module and am considering dropping it because it’s pointless. Does anyone know if it is required to promote to O-5 in the guard?

At my last base I knew of reservists who had to retire at O-4 because they didn’t complete it.

[abmwaldo]

31 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

I’m in the second module and am considering dropping it because it’s pointless. Does anyone know if it is required to promote to O-5 in the guard?

At my last base I knew of reservists who had to retire at O-4 because they didn’t complete it.

I'd imagine it varies by state. I know that my state generally wants it done prior to ROPMA (~6 years as an O-4).

[SFG]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'll be the second guy to support the "Me too career suicide movement." 

Those of you who are SAPR or resiliency appointees can be rest assured I will self report and do my sensitivity CBTs tomorrow morning. 

#metoo

AND automatic DNPs for anyone who does it prior to their third look for in res.

Only exempt those who request not to be looked at for in res.

We don’t want people to become commanders who are willing to waste their time... because they will likely be willing to waste everyone else’s too.

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, MooseAg03 said:

I’m in the second module and am considering dropping it because it’s pointless. Does anyone know if it is required to promote to O-5 in the guard?

At my last base I knew of reservists who had to retire at O-4 because they didn’t complete it.

Yes, at least in the AFRC, lack of ACSC completion is a guaranteed non-promote to O-5. People forego it and retire as O-4s all the time. Leadership is very much still interested in you having all their PME boxes checked in order to be considered for leadership. I don't recall what the difference in retirement pay is for O-5 but for a TR who gets paid at 60 (minus whatever they drew down with MPA) it's probably ballwash. AGR it may be worth pinching your nose and doing it. Can't speak for the guard.

 

 

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

I’m in the second module and am considering dropping it because it’s pointless. Does anyone know if it is required to promote to O-5 in the guard?

At my last base I knew of reservists who had to retire at O-4 because they didn’t complete it.

Depends upon the state.  I know a Lt Col in another state that did not do SOS or ACSC (golf clap!)...  Then there is my  state, which puts you down as a DNP if you haven't done ACSC.  However, we have had people ROPMA without it, so there's that. 

It can get really muddy when the state doesn't recognize the federal promotion...or something like that.  Another squadron in the state had this happen to a pilot.  From second hand info, he was paid as an O5 but had to wear O4 rank (unless on title 10, lol).  If true, that's what I call 2 birds, one stone!

Like 2020 said, the difference is ballwash, or about $400/month for me.  Due to my enlisted time, even if I promote right away (not likely due to control grade issues), I'd have to stay an extra 2.5 years to retire with a full Lt Col retirement.  Given how quickly the situation is deteriorating in the military, I have zero intention of staying in a day past 20, so it's really not worth it to me.

 

Edit:  Just opened my email and see my GTC was shut off for non-payment...from a voucher I signed quite a while ago.  Lol, guess I can't go TDY anymore.  The AF is so fucked!  The donut of misery shows ~1,000 days until retirement.

Edited May 4, 2018 by SocialD

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, SocialD said:

Due to my enlisted time, even if I promote right away (not likely due to control grade issues), I'd have to stay an extra 2.5 years to retire with a full Lt Col retirement.  Given how quickly the situation is deteriorating in the military, I have zero intention of staying in a day past 20, so it's really not worth it to me.

Amen. Told my CC I'm not staying a day past 20 years.

I have a bud who is a 17D and he just received his PRF for his IPZ board to Lt Col. He doesn't understand why I refuse to do ACSC. We have very different view points on leadership. I don't believe in being a physical fitness nanny to officers as an FGO. His response was you should make people do a mock fitness test before their actual testing. This will ensure they pass so your CC looks good on the Wing slides.  WTF? I believe in being a good follower and taking care of the CC, but in flying squadrons we aren't in the habit of shaking officer dicks after they piss. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[Jetpilot]

A useless measure in which anyone can pass by simply clicking through and performing at their minimal level is the most ridiculous gauge for leadership. By making ACSC a single point of failure we are invalidating everything else that make up an officer’s career. I totally understand it’s requirement in receiving joint pme credit, although I could argue that as well, but to make it define an officer’s leadership potential is so GD backwards I feel like we are living in bizarro world. I still love what I do in the USAF, but constant measures like this over the last 13 years makes me more and more cynical and I’m tired of it. Sorry for the rant. Longtime reader first time caller. 

[pawnman]

On 5/4/2018 at 4:31 AM, HarleyQuinn said:

Amen. Told my CC I'm not staying a day past 20 years.

I have a bud who is a 17D and he just received his PRF for his IPZ board to Lt Col. He doesn't understand why I refuse to do ACSC. We have very different view points on leadership. I don't believe in being a physical fitness nanny to officers as an FGO. His response was you should make people do a mock fitness test before their actual testing. This will ensure they pass so your CC looks good on the Wing slides.  WTF? I believe in being a good follower and taking care of the CC, but in flying squadrons we aren't in the habit of shaking officer dicks after they piss. 

Well, you have to understand that as a 17D, he does not have the same kind of people working for him that you have working for you.  "You're all adults and professionals" works well in squadrons that are predominantly officer, in AFSCs that already require discipline and attention to detail.  It works less well when you have an airman or A1C less than a year out of BMT and who still barely has a grasp adult life, let alone the expectations of the Air Force.

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Well, you have to understand that as a 17D, he does not have the same kind of people working for him that you have working for you.  "You're all adults and professionals" works well in squadrons that are predominantly officer, in AFSCs that already require discipline and attention to detail.  It works less well when you have an airman or A1C less than a year out of BMT and who still barely has a grasp adult life, let alone the expectations of the Air Force.

Its more than just Airman a year out of BMT. Talked with a buddy who is in cyber and the airman he deals with on a daily basis is well let's just say special (in every possible meaning of that word).