Promotion and PRF Information

[Champ Kind]

How does someone heading to JCS get passed over?

[Weezer]

4 minutes ago, Champ Kind said:

How does someone heading to JCS get passed over?

Truth in advertising:  it's a satellite J3 office down in Norfolk, not the Pentagon.  If you've seen some of my past posts, you'll see I'm also not an aviator.  Some mission support career fields don't place as much value on JCS positions (weird).  Shiny pennies go to HAF and work tribal programs.  They'll send "second-tier" guys like me to stuff like this.

The flyers that we've had down here are upwardly mobile (they have all made O-6 within a year of getting here).  Of the mission support folks:  I came here passed over, another guy got passed over while here, several guys come here and get ROAD, and a few others are very junior majors or senior captains with a line number, so it doesn't seem to matter much.

I was fortunate to have a mission-minded aviator-type help me out, and I am forever grateful.

[Skitzo]

Some mission support career fields don't place as much value on JCS positions (weird).

 

UFB

 

After spending six months in MX I am convinced that the mindset problem in the USAF is not in OPS or MX. This confirms my thought process.

 

Johnny is a real fast burner in MSG, we need him desperately at the A1 so we can craft the next PT policy that will clearly solve our woes.

 

Although I will say I did get a call back from the FSS Ops O today saying he would look into our problem with the indoor track at Cannon. For some reason running indoors over 20 laps adds :50 to an average run time, so maybe there is hope.

 

Not bagging on you Weezer just find it odd that joint jobs are less desirable than HAF jobs.

 

[panchbarnes]

Not surprised one bit.  AFPC determines assignments primarily based on promotion opportunities, rather than Jt/CCMD requirements and skill sets...you know, force presentation and all that stuff we learned in PME...

[frog]

2 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 

UFB

 

After spending six months in MX I am convinced that the mindset problem in the USAF is not in OPS or MX. This confirms my thought process.

 

Johnny is a real fast burner in MSG, we need him desperately at the A1 so we can craft the next PT policy that will clearly solve our woes.

 

Although I will say I did get a call back from the FSS Ops O today saying he would look into our problem with the indoor track at Cannon. For some reason running indoors over 20 laps adds :50 to an average run time, so maybe there is hope.

 

Not bagging on you Weezer just find it odd that joint jobs are less desirable than HAF jobs.

 

Its a survival mechanism. Many MSG functions fall under J4. No AF officer other than loggies are going to compete well in J4...its a loggie's world. So, the up and comers go to HAF, were at least a handful can stay "on the path". I suspect it actually works out well for the joint staffs...they get the A-/B+ team that is going to work hard and expect nothing in return.

[17D_guy]

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

 Some mission support career fields don't place as much value on JCS positions (weird).  Shiny pennies go to HAF and work tribal programs.  They'll send "second-tier" guys like me to stuff like this.

Yet the AF has built the fast track because we don't have enough rep at Joint jobs...wonder why?

[tac airlifter]

11 hours ago, Skitzo said:

Not bagging on you Weezer just find it odd that joint jobs are less desirable than HAF jobs.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about joint jobs.  They are mostly bad for a career in the AF unless timing and luck are on your side.  Unless you’re a BTZ on your way to higher rank, I encourage folks to stay away from joint billets as O4/O5s (exception- if there’s a really cool job you want, go do it).

Edited May 25, 2018 by tac airlifter

[FourFans]

56 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

I encourage folks to stay away from joint billets as O4/O5s (exception- if there’s a really cool job you want, go do it).

Cannot be overstated.

It's sad but true.  We should want to be joint in how we fight.  We need to be.  USAF management makes it a career killer for almost every billet that might be useful for a joint fight.

[Weezer]

14 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 

UFB

 

After spending six months in MX I am convinced that the mindset problem in the USAF is not in OPS or MX. This confirms my thought process.

 

Johnny is a real fast burner in MSG, we need him desperately at the A1 so we can craft the next PT policy that will clearly solve our woes.

 

Although I will say I did get a call back from the FSS Ops O today saying he would look into our problem with the indoor track at Cannon. For some reason running indoors over 20 laps adds :50 to an average run time, so maybe there is hope.

 

Not bagging on you Weezer just find it odd that joint jobs are less desirable than HAF jobs.

 

I don’t mind if you bag on me...I understand.  Lurking around here long enough, I get a tiny sense of what you guys think/feel about those of us not in the operations community.

As much criticism as the 2014 RIF gets for its effect on the rated community, the MSG went through several cuts prior to that, going back to ‘05.  Those cuts coincided to times when we had a ton of guys fragged out to support joint and other service missions in CENTCOM.  Deploy often and long enough, and you don’t get SOS DL done or no exec jobs and you’re on the chopping block.  You guys know the deal.

So this negative selection of people out doing combat-related missions (traditional Air Force or not) creates the environment you see in non-OG communities today.

I’ve said before there needs to be more inter-breeding and cross-pollination between Ops and Support.

I love my joint job...I haven’t touched my primary area of expertise for almost 2 years and gained a whole new set of knowledge.  I’ve gotten to do staff work that made its way up to NSC and POTUS (well, as a backup slide).  Of course, since I made O-5 and am resurrected, they’re cutting it short to send me to...wait for it...HAF/A4.

But, in the words of the warontherocks article...I’m just “happy to be here.”

Edited May 25, 2018 by Weezer
Typo

[war007afa]

On 5/24/2018 at 10:55 PM, Champ Kind said:

How does someone heading to JCS get passed over?

The same way a guy at AF/SE who had PCS orders to command a squadron was passed over. The dumpster fire continues...

[17D_guy]

On 5/25/2018 at 9:46 AM, Weezer said:

As much criticism as the 2014 RIF gets for its effect on the rated community, the MSG went through several cuts prior to that, going back to ‘05.  Those cuts coincided to times when we had a ton of guys fragged out to support joint and other service missions in CENTCOM.  Deploy often and long enough, and you don’t get SOS DL done or no exec jobs and you’re on the chopping block.  You guys know the deal.

So this negative selection of people out doing combat-related missions (traditional Air Force or not) creates the environment you see in non-OG communities today.

Weez is on point with this one.  I've mentioned it years ago.  Comm was RIF'd at least twice (possibly 3 times) before the 2014/2015 Hunger Games.  I think it was '06, '09...perhaps '11?

There's a large stigma in our communities about "being outside" and it being a detriment to your career. 

Go to school house - that's outside "the community" 
Go to AFPAK, RAS, etc. - same
AF needs assignment (OTS, SOS, BMT) - same
Joint anything - same

Now...there are, of course, people who've "recovered" from these assignments.  But the jobs are ALWAYS discussed in a negative light and as placing you behind peers for promotion and other opportunities.  Could you imagine being a air-breathing operator and being told the stint you did as a lead IP was "detrimental to your career?"  Or you'd never recover from FAIP duty, "sorry thems the breaks?"  Welcome to MSG.

Special shout out to cyber for still not following the flying upgrade path (FTU, IP qual, master IP's, etc.)  Someday we'll get it together...probably atfer another pilot leads the domain.

Edited May 26, 2018 by 17D_guy
forgot words

[celtic020]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:29 AM, war007afa said:

The same way a guy at AF/SE who had PCS orders to command a squadron was passed over. The dumpster fire continues...

This one I honestly can't believe.  Screened and assigned to SQ/CC and passed over for O-5?  

[ThreeHoler]

This one I honestly can't believe.  Screened and assigned to SQ/CC and passed over for O-5?  

I believe it. The PE board (and I assume the other ones too) has specific caveats in the instructions that talk about being selected for command and then not getting promoted to O-5.

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, celtic020 said:

This one I honestly can't believe.  Screened and assigned to SQ/CC and passed over for O-5?  

There’s a guy at a AMC base who was an AOC at USAFA, made Lt Col BTZ, then PCS’d to said AMC to command a flying squadron. He unfortunately upset a Cadet at USAFA who’s father was friends with someone on the Senate Armed Forces Committee, who subsequently didn’t not approve of his name on the promotion list for two years. Since that happened, his line number then expired and he wasn’t promoted. He also was told that since he was no longer a Lt Col(s), he couldn’t command a flying squadron. He then became the AMXS/CC and he’s working at somehow getting his line number back.

[pcola]

and he’s working at somehow getting his line number back.

Hopefully you meant to say he’s working on getting his seniority number (at the Majors) and not his AF line number. Because F that noise.

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, pcola said:

Hopefully you meant to say he’s working on getting his seniority number (at the Majors) and not his AF line number. Because F that noise.

Nope, he was just the Projo for the base’s airshow. Unfortunately he’s an optimist.

[Homestar]

3 hours ago, Azimuth said:

There’s a guy at a AMC base who was an AOC at USAFA, made Lt Col BTZ, then PCS’d to said AMC to command a flying squadron. He unfortunately upset a Cadet at USAFA who’s father was friends with someone on the Senate Armed Forces Committee, who subsequently didn’t not approve of his name on the promotion list for two years. Since that happened, his line number then expired and he wasn’t promoted. He also was told that since he was no longer a Lt Col(s), he couldn’t command a flying squadron. He then became the AMXS/CC and he’s working at somehow getting his line number back.

Can confirm. Horrible situation all around. 

[Standby]

3 hours ago, Azimuth said:

There’s a guy at a AMC base who was an AOC at USAFA, made Lt Col BTZ, then PCS’d to said AMC to command a flying squadron. He unfortunately upset a Cadet at USAFA who’s father was friends with someone on the Senate Armed Forces Committee, who subsequently didn’t not approve of his name on the promotion list for two years. Since that happened, his line number then expired and he wasn’t promoted. He also was told that since he was no longer a Lt Col(s), he couldn’t command a flying squadron. He then became the AMXS/CC and he’s working at somehow getting his line number back.

That’s criminal. I am not one to fall on my sword often, but this instance would be totally worth it to expose the fvckery going on. 

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, Standby said:

That’s criminal. I am not one to fall on my sword often, but this instance would be totally worth it to expose the fvckery going on. 

You’re right, however there isn’t enough firepower in the USAF, nor the DoD, to take on a Senator on any committee/subcommittee, let alone the Senate Armed Forces Committee. And anyone that has enough rank/position to say something, isn’t because doing so would be possibly risky to their own careers.

[Standby]

6 hours ago, Azimuth said:

You’re right, however there isn’t enough firepower in the USAF, nor the DoD, to take on a Senator on any committee/subcommittee, let alone the Senate Armed Forces Committee. And anyone that has enough rank/position to say something, isn’t because doing so would be possibly risky to their own careers.

It was kind of awhile ago, but I faintly remember something from SERE about your own government fvcking you and the media. Could be wrong though, I have been before. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Standby

[Weezer]

19 hours ago, celtic020 said:

This one I honestly can't believe.  Screened and assigned to SQ/CC and passed over for O-5?  

I saw a guy have to sit at a KOA for two weeks because he was already en route to take command when he was notified of being passed over.  The gaining/hiring organization said they no longer wanted him.

[celtic020]

16 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Nope, he was just the Projo for the base’s airshow. Unfortunately he’s an optimist.

I know him personally.  He was an IP when I inprocessed my first flying assignment 11 years ago....phenomenal dude.  I knew something wasn't right when I saw him at a  conference a couple years ago and he was still a Major.  So F'ing brutal. 

[Cooter]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:00 AM, tac airlifter said:

There is a lot of misunderstanding about joint jobs.  They are mostly bad for a career in the AF unless timing and luck are on your side.  Unless you’re a BTZ on your way to higher rank, I encourage folks to stay away from joint billets as O4/O5s (exception- if there’s a really cool job you want, go do it).

Totally agree, There are multiple 11X/12X in critically manned career fields at my current job.  Very little what we are doing involves air at all and in most cases NOTHING to do with it.  Not one of us here can come with a plausible reason for us to be here given the current aviator retention issue.  YOu have a higher probability of getting forgotten about in critical windows than you do anything else.

Cooter

[Azimuth]

2 hours ago, celtic020 said:

I know him personally.  He was an IP when I inprocessed my first flying assignment 11 years ago....phenomenal dude.  I knew something wasn't right when I saw him at a  conference a couple years ago and he was still a Major.  So F'ing brutal. 

He's a great dude, and deserves to be a Lt Col, however that would involve some people to have an ethical and moral backbone to do the right thing. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen.

[BashiChuni]

55 minutes ago, Azimuth said:

He's a great dude, and deserves to be a Lt Col, however that would involve some people to have an ethical and moral backbone to do the right thing. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen.

Wow. That is insane but unfortunately very believable. 

Talk about getting f’d