Promotion and PRF Information

[Duck]

Bragging 

Just doing my part to free our fellow posters from the AF Stockholm Syndrome.

[Homestar]

5 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

I've always thought we should move the Squadron Command billets down to senior O-3s/junior O-4s.  Army CGOs get real leadership opportunities early on (O-3 Company Command ~100 people).  Navy LCDRs can command a ship.  Why do we wait ~15 years before giving an officer Command (yeah I know there are exceptions depending on your AFSC)?

In theory, early Squadron Command:

1. Weeds out the d-bags early on

2. Gives the Senior Leaders better data for selecting HPOs

3. Provides more accurate/honest assessments to the stratification process and O-4/O-5 promotion boards

4. Provides O-4s/O-5s with credible/applicable leadership experience for Joint/Non-Joint staff tours

5. Provides practical/relevant/recent leadership experience for IDE learning

The O-5s can prove their worth on the staff (eliminating the CGO billets) and be pushed for SDE.  Post-SDE compete for Group+ Command.

Not a perfect solution but I think the pros outweigh the cons.  Otherwise, the OPR changes is just a shell game.

The Army can do this because an Army O-3 will have like 2 Lts and a hundred enlisted under his command. 

Hard to do that when you have flying squadrons in the Air Force with a hundred officers (including FGOs) and like 2 Airmen. 

[MooseClub]

3 hours ago, Duck said:

As advertised. I am now on terminal leave and also got s job with a major airline. Stress level zero and never been so happy in my life.

Yes, it trumps UPT, PCS, Adv flying training ADSCs. The only thing that you need to check is the GI bill transfer of benefits eligibility. This is all from memory so please check me on this. If you decline continuation but separate at the mandatory 6 month date, you can keep your transfer benefits even if you still owe time on the ADSC. If however you try and move it up you MAY lose the transfer.

Thanks for the info and congrats on the new job!  That’s killer

Good point on the GI Bill. Haven’t transferred it yet but I’ll def check into it before I do. 

How far out did you get your application submitted so that you got the job while still on terminal?  What’s a reasonable time to expect from submission to interview/ offer?  Apologies I’m not asking this in the Airline thread but...I’m being lazy and killing two birds 

[brickhistory]

5 minutes ago, MooseClub said:

...I’m being lazy and killing two birds 

Didn't think you were at Laughlin?

 

 

Too soon?

[xaarman]

41 minutes ago, MooseClub said:

Thanks for the info and congrats on the new job!  That’s killer

Good point on the GI Bill. Haven’t transferred it yet but I’ll def check into it before I do. 

How far out did you get your application submitted so that you got the job while still on terminal?  What’s a reasonable time to expect from submission to interview/ offer?  Apologies I’m not asking this in the Airline thread but...I’m being lazy and killing two birds 

Since I knew I had a 10% chance of being promoted, I had my applications to the big 5 complete well ahead of time, hit publish the night I got my notice of second passover and guessed my date of availability. AFPC established my DOS of 31 Dec 17, got my legacy invite on October 27th, CJO was Dec 7th, and started indoc Jan 23rd.

 

That being said, everyone's timeline is different. But if you haven't started the applications yet, they're a bitch. I submitted for my Drivers License history, FOIA'd my NDR (National Drivers Registry) history, ordered all of my official college transcripts, got friends to write Letters of Recommendations, had to do the consulting/resume/application review, etc. The process took ~3 months. The applications themselves are worse than an SF-86.

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by xaarman

[MooseClub]

49 minutes ago, xaarman said:

Since I knew I had a 10% chance of being promoted, I had my applications to the big 5 complete well ahead of time, and hit publish the night I got my notice of second passover and guessed my date of availability. AFPC established my DOS of 31 Dec 17, got my legacy invite on October 27th, CJO was Dec 7th, and started indoc Jan 23rd.

 

That being said, everyone's timeline is different. But if you haven't started the applications yet, they're a bitch. I had to submit for my Drivers License history, FOIA my NDR (National Drivers Registry), order all of my official college transcripts, get friends to write Letters of Recommendations, do the consulting/resume/application review, etc. The applications are worse than an SF-86.

That’ll be my plan...ready to hit submit soon as I get the word

Good thing I’ll have time to get my Delta TS/SCI investigation, oh I mean application ready!

[17D_guy]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

  Meanwhile, a comm squadron is a comm squadron anywhere in the Air Force, so there's a greater chance to command one as an O-4.

 

I agree, but want to point out this is changing as we move from a support function to mission defense and operations role.

[pawnman]

29 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

I agree, but want to point out this is changing as we move from a support function to mission defense and operations role.

Do you think that will force your commanders to be chosen later/higher ranking?

[Day Man]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:13 AM, cragspider said:

Yes our numbers are thin. I know about half the guys from our YG that I know are already out. Most are in the Airlines already and ARC.  As for the O-5 board there where a few btz from my peers this past so we shall see. I know if I wasn’t a “late” rated pilot I’d be out in the airlines by now. It’s not that I’m not paitrotic but the miss management is so bad now I’d rather go we’re we are valued more than a number. QOL you name it once you have a family changes a lot of things. The next round of CC’s could be interesting for sure. 

You write like you went to state school on a short bus...and I went to a state school.

[Fuzz]

8 hours ago, pawnman said:

Do you think that will force your commanders to be chosen later/higher ranking?

I know an SFS O-5 that's on their 2nd SQ/CC tour (one before IDE/Staff). 

[Tonka]

On 11/3/2018 at 4:58 AM, Jetpilot said:

I would think ascension into the upper ranks (O-5 and higher) should incorporate multiple means of evaluation i.e. performance reports, pedigree (as in tactical proficiency, previous leadership positions held, WIC/Whitehouse Fellow/Olmsted etc.), references from previous commanders, and an interview between you and the board.  The current promotion system is another example of how the USAF hides behind a "paper bureaucracy" without really knowing who they are selecting.  I have seen it time and time again where a "meh" officer is selected over someone genuinely deserving.  I believe by opening up the playing field regarding the person's record, we would be able to de-escalate the significance of stratification whether it is an actual number stratification or top/middle/bottom ranking.    

I do realize that my suggestions would come at an administrative/logistical cost and the only solution I can think of is to not have promo boards by AFSC, but maybe conduct them at an even more specialized level and have them by parent MAJCOM.  The con with this idea is that we might run into a situation where there are less GO's who can cross disciplines. 

  

Job title weighed with performance in that job title, with a limit to the "score" based on the job... kind of like the Olympics, asst chief of squadron safety - highest possible score of 40 out of 100, Squadron commander highest possible score of 90, etc... when I look at people's record, strats were always secondary to job title (especially in a squadron of 50+ peers).  Chief of Stan/Eval in a Sqd of 100 pilots, you probably rock... same yr group, everything else equal - asst secretary of mobility but you are CGO of the year - you probably don't rock as much.

[17D_guy]

15 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I know an SFS O-5 that's on their 2nd SQ/CC tour (one before IDE/Staff). 

 

On 11/3/2018 at 4:04 PM, pawnman said:

Do you think that will force your commanders to be chosen later/higher ranking?

Like Fuzz says we've got a number of 2-time commanders, and a lot of O-4 Sq/CC's now.  Per AFPC we're all in for command, no declinations, I think that's more a product of 2 AFSC RIFs and the Hunger Games in '14-'16.

It's hard to say if we're going to go older since the domain is so new.  We're shoe-horning it into what the AF knows (Flt-Sq-Grp) but I don't think it's going to last.  It's not how we operate (more team/capes focused).  This is an area other service models *might* make more sense?  Some of our older commanders struggle with the compliance vs. ops mindset.

If they'd just split the fucking AFSC we'd have a much easier time.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

 

Like Fuzz says we've got a number of 2-time commanders, and a lot of O-4 Sq/CC's now.  Per AFPC we're all in for command, no declinations, I think that's more a product of 2 AFSC RIFs and the Hunger Games in '14-'16.

It's hard to say if we're going to go older since the domain is so new.  We're shoe-horning it into what the AF knows (Flt-Sq-Grp) but I don't think it's going to last.  It's not how we operate (more team/capes focused).  This is an area other service models *might* make more sense?  Some of our older commanders struggle with the compliance vs. ops mindset.

If they'd just split the fucking AFSC we'd have a much easier time.

This is why splitting AFSCs on promotion boards would be helpful. It prevents flyers from having to compete with guys who are sitting or graduated squadron commanders in the same year group.

[17D_guy]

13 minutes ago, pawnman said:

This is why splitting AFSCs on promotion boards would be helpful. It prevents flyers from having to compete with guys who are sitting or graduated squadron commanders in the same year group.

No doubt, I was more along the lines of splitting those doing cyber ops from you normal Comm sq (IT) dude.  One's ops, ones compliance...but we're 1 AFSC because it's easier for AFPC to manage use that way.

[McJay Pilot]

More delays? Say it ain't so... another '05 purge survivor here.

[14N Guy]

11 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I wasn't told all the OPR secrets. But on track for command versus ready for command is like night and day correct?  

From my experience (limited) if you have “ready for ###” it is not good.

Also, found out that my 3APZ PRF that was sent up was a full one, not a 2-liner.

[soupafly06]

12 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I wasn't told all the OPR secrets. But on track for command versus ready for command is like night and day correct?  

Sorry man, but with that push and a P you’ll probably be joining the ranks of us passed over types.  Best of luck though.  With the rates of those getting promoted with only a P going down this year, getting that DP is key.  I’d recommend meeting with your senior rater for a chat before he does the rack and stack, especially if they don’t know you well.  Better he has a face to put to the package (STS) that might at least make them think a bit vice remaining faceless and being an easy push into the P pile.

[pawnman]

34 minutes ago, soupafly06 said:

Sorry man, but with that push and a P you’ll probably be joining the ranks of us passed over types.  Best of luck though.  With the rates of those getting promoted with only a P going down this year, getting that DP is key.  I’d recommend meeting with your senior rater for a chat before he does the rack and stack, especially if they don’t know you well.  Better he has a face to put to the package (STS) that might at least make them think a bit vice remaining faceless and being an easy push into the P pile.

That appears to be the bottom line... The box the senior rater checks is far more important than what the push line says.

[Homestar]

13 minutes ago, pawnman said:

That appears to be the bottom line... The box the senior rater checks is far more important than what the push line says.

That depends of course on which box is checked. The BL can be supremely important if P is checked. 

[ThreeHoler]

Sq/Cc now > ready for Sq/CC >>> future Sq/CC >>>>> on track for Sq/CC


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[pawnman]

49 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

Sq/Cc now > ready for Sq/CC >>> future Sq/CC >>>>> on track for Sq/CC


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What if it just says SQ/CC followed by X...?

[WheelzUp]

36 minutes ago, pawnman said:

What if it just says SQ/CC followed by X...?

The push line is all about the strat.  The rest helps to support it.  The push for command is simply that.  It needs to be on there, along with a plug for school & staff.  I guess in the absence of a stratification, the wordsmithing may carry more weight, but I think we are pretty far down in the weeds on this one.  

[Bigred]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:12 AM, McJay Pilot said:

More delays? Say it ain't so... another '05 purge survivor here.

For the uninformed (me), what was this "purge"?

[ThreeHoler]

What if it just says SQ/CC followed by X...?

Your OPR only really needs to say Sq/CC as the job push (plus SDE and something better than “MAJCOM”).

The flavor text is more important for the PRF.

Source: AFPC promotions counselor.

[Skitzo]

So in my limited experience those with truly the HPO stink usually say something like this...

Junior Captain—Future Squadron Commander

Senior Captain—Will Command an Ops Squadron

Junior Major—Will Command at Multiple Levels

Going to IDE—IDE next followed by ASG and Ops Sqd Command (usually after boarded to be a cc)

Groom/Monitor/Ready for command—-better than not having it in the pushline but not spectacular either.

Need a DP or the “if I had one more or if I had a DP to give” is necessary based on the amount of SRs there are vs Ps that got promoted to O-5.


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