Promotion and PRF Information

[Seriously]

On 11/8/2018 at 5:13 AM, Skitzo said:

So in my limited experience those with truly the HPO stink usually say something like this...

Junior Captain—Future Squadron Commander

Senior Captain—Will Command an Ops Squadron

Junior Major—Will Command at Multiple Levels

Going to IDE—IDE next followed by ASG and Ops Sqd Command (usually after boarded to be a cc)

Groom/Monitor/Ready for command—-better than not having it in the pushline but not spectacular either.

Need a DP or the “if I had one more or if I had a DP to give” is necessary based on the amount of SRs there are vs Ps that got promoted to O-5.


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Assuming you're talking about pilots, those seem like prohibited statements. "When making an assignment recommendation on an OPR, there will be no reference to a higher grade, and it must be consistent with the officer’s appropriate progression of their professional development."

 

"3.17.4.5.2. Prohibited EXAMPLES:

3.17.4.5.2.1. “Make Lt Triska an FSS Commander.” (Inappropriate next level of progression).

3.17.4.5.2.2. “Send Capt Brown to IDE after selection to major.” (Reference to IDE is appropriate, but the comment “after selection to major” is an implied promotion statement).

3.17.4.5.2.3. “SDE in 2008, Group Commander in 2012, and Wing Commander in 2015.” (Goes beyond the scope of the next assignment).

3.17.4.5.2.4. “Capt Phelps is ready to be a flying Sq/CC” and “Make Maj Knisley a group commander.” (In both cases, the recommendations are clearly beyond the officer’s next assignment and are viewed as veiled promotion statements).

[Guest]

I was recently told that deployment history is now masked. Any truth to this? If so, that’s a crock of shit. We’re booting people over their inability to deploy, but not recognizing those that do (especially when non-flying deployments may result in needing a requal, causing one to have an extended period where they’re not doing their primary or add’l duties).


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[ThreeHoler]

I was recently told that deployment history is now masked. Any truth to this? If so, that’s a crock of shit. We’re booting people over their inability to deploy, but not recognizing those that do (especially when non-flying deployments may result in needing a requal, causing one to have an extended period where they’re not doing their primary or add’l duties).


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It has been masked for a while if I remember right. That’s why SRs are putting it in the PRF: “9-time deployer” & “deployed DO” etc.

Ref the illegal statements...yes they are unless you’re a HPO. I’ve seen OPRs for non-HPO get kicked back for veiled promotion statements and non-veiled promotion statements stay on HPO OPRs.

[pawnman]

41 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

It has been masked for a while if I remember right. That’s why SRs are putting it in the PRF: “9-time deployer” & “deployed DO” etc.

Ref the illegal statements...yes they are unless you’re a HPO. I’ve seen OPRs for non-HPO get kicked back for veiled promotion statements and non-veiled promotion statements stay on HPO OPRs.

 

I also have combat hours and combat sorties on the PRF.

It's another symptom of "you promote what you value".  Mask deployments, and you'll promote people who don't deploy.

[nunya]

58 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

He had EKIA listed in his PRF and I almost lost my lunch.

Maybe he hacked HVI haji's phone, sent a dick pic to haji's 4th wife and her sister in a group text.  Said wife killed HVI haji.  I'd give him an EKIA for that.

[MooseClub]

Boards don’t care about combat hours, it’s just expected you’re doing it. A deployed leadership billet and/or Joint experience, absolutely matters to a board. 

It’s not that they don’t value combat time, it’s just that most flying communities/flyers have no problem accumulating those hours. In a board’s view, combat time in and of itself, is not a demonstration of leadership or a predictor for its potential. Which IS what they care about. 

[pawnman]

They won't tell you to remove the line, but they also won't tell you it's worthless.  One of the guys with the most combat time in my community was the guy who got RIFed.  Meanwhile, my OG/CC had about 100 combat hours... In an aircraft where the average combat sortie is 12-16 hours.

[MooseClub]

22 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I guess all the PRFs I saw submitted with combat hours was wrong then over the past 8 years. A bro on base ops and a mentor taught me that and it worked.  Never saw a GP/CC or WG/CD tell anyone to remove combat hours from a PRF or OPR. Especially with deploy or get out right now.

Combat hours tell a story in my opinion. If you saved special forces from being ambushed at an oil refinery in Syria from Russian/Syrian forces, then I'm pretty sure a board cares. Flew 1K cmbt hrs--saved 500 friendly forces. In my opinion, you are not doing just your job. You could easily lose 100 friendlies. If a board doesn't understand that then I'm lost.

I understand the potential to serve in the next rank part. But you can't have X-mas party planners running the AF. Let's be real about that one. If shoe clerks takeover, kiss the bag goodbye because their force will be far too strong.

I’ll repeat myself...I’m not saying a board doesn’t value your combat time.  They do.

What I’m saying is don’t think that your combat time is what’s going to get you promoted, or not promoted for that matter. You’re absolutely right, it does paint a picture but it’s a picture that thousands of your peers are also painting around the AF.  What a board values and what will set you apart from your peers is leadership, period. Simply deploying for XX days or having ### hours of combat time does not = leadership in the eyes of the AF.  

It’s almost like being the best pilot in your unit or wing....no board will ever see your FEF.  Yes, they see combat experience in your paperwork (and yes they want to see it) but that alone doesn’t equal leadership to them. Deployment experience is checking a box when it comes to a board (with my previously stated exceptions). Not at all saying it isn’t valuable, or that I agree with it, I’m saying all of us should have eyes wide open and no illusions about what really matters when it comes to promotions and your career. 

[MooseClub]

22 minutes ago, pawnman said:

They won't tell you to remove the line, but they also won't tell you it's worthless.  One of the guys with the most combat time in my community was the guy who got RIFed.  Meanwhile, my OG/CC had about 100 combat hours... In an aircraft where the average combat sortie is 12-16 hours.

^ this exactly. 

Cant tell you how many bros I’ve known who deployed their asses off and it was never going to make any difference in their long term careers. Like pawnman said, look around at 0-6s. There are many with a good bit of deployment history and there are many with extremely little.

Do deployments matter?  Absolutely. Do they matter when it comes to promotions?  It’s a box to check but it will not make you promotable if you weren’t already. 

[Homestar]

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not allowed.  Here is an example of a Lt Col IPZ PRF that was promoted with a P, and the kind of deployed info that was included.  I redacted a bunch of stuff to protect the guilty (me).

I will say this: that 365 was probably the straw that pushed me over the line to O-5.

[pawnman]

10 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not allowed.  Here is an example of a Lt Col IPZ PRF that was promoted with a P, and the kind of deployed info that was included.  I redacted a bunch of stuff to protect the guilty (me).

I will say this: that 365 was probably the straw that pushed me over the line to O-5.

Wow... Mine looks so different.  You've stacked all the stats on a single line.  My community really pushes the C-method, putting a strat at the beginning of each line if you have enough to fill the whole thing.

[Homestar]

Yes, each community/wing will have a different method.  Hopefully you don't have to switch communities between the 1BPZ and IPZ writes.  I was fortunate to have a Wing staff that put a lot of work into 1BPZ PRFs so that IPZ PRFs took very little tweaking a year later.

[bennynova]

23 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not allowed.  Here is an example of a Lt Col IPZ PRF that was promoted with a P, and the kind of deployed info that was included.  I redacted a bunch of stuff to protect the guilty (me).

I will say this: that 365 was probably the straw that pushed me over the line to O-5.

That’s the oddest PRF I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen 100s

   How long ago was this??

[pawnman]

Just now, HarleyQuinn said:

Shack

Did the officer who got RIF'd only deploy and do nothing else? Or were there some skeletons in his closet? If you have "A" skeleton, the AF will get rid of you first typically.

No skeletons, but no special duties either.  He was the chief of OGV and one of like 4 line dudes qualified in the glass cockpit upgrade at the time.  

My community is especially bad for it, because we are told we are too undermanned and too critical to do any kind of career broadening... Then we are punished for doing nothing but flying the line.  Functional won't release me to go anywhere, but big Air Force is upset I've never been anywhere but in the cockpit.  

I'm having some real epiphanies about Catch-22.

[MooseClub]

40 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not allowed.  Here is an example of a Lt Col IPZ PRF that was promoted with a P, and the kind of deployed info that was included.  I redacted a bunch of stuff to protect the guilty (me).

I will say this: that 365 was probably the straw that pushed me over the line to O-5.

I would disagree that a 365 buried in the middle made all the difference in getting you over the hump...congrats btw! Certainly it adds good ammo and can only help, but what I see are very solid strats and the highly important “if I had one more DP”.  At the end of the day it always comes down to strats and push lines. Getting that push line when you didn’t get a DP is huge. 

[Homestar]

34 minutes ago, bennynova said:

That’s the oddest PRF I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen 100s

   How long ago was this??

2016

[Homestar]

11 minutes ago, MooseClub said:

I would disagree that a 365 buried in the middle made all the difference in getting you over the hump...congrats btw! Certainly it adds good ammo and can only help, but what I see are very solid strats and the highly important “if I had one more DP”.  At the end of the day it always comes down to strats and push lines. Getting that push line when you didn’t get a DP is huge. 

I guess what I mean is that based on my feedback with my SR the 365 was likely the points that put me at #3/4 in my group and hence the top P or “super P” strat by the WG/CC. 

For reference, the #4 guy in our group was passed over. 

[jrizzell]

That’s the oddest PRF I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen 100s
   How long ago was this??

This narrative method is the way some leaders like to write their PRF’s. But that “If I had one more” push line is like the Super P

[panchbarnes]

9 hours ago, Homestar said:

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not allowed.  Here is an example of a Lt Col IPZ PRF that was promoted with a P, and the kind of deployed info that was included.  I redacted a bunch of stuff to protect the guilty (me).

I will say this: that 365 was probably the straw that pushed me over the line to O-5.

I swear everyone has the same Key to/Led Wg UCI "Excellent" bullet in their OPRs...one of the unwritten checkboxes.  Of course sometimes you have to compete for the UCI ldrshp job, but that's a different topic.  🤣🤣🤣

I'll second that if you are on the border, a "good" 365 will most likely push your package over the edge.

Combat/deployment time in your records is supposed to matter more when Gen Goldfein first came onboard, or so they say.

As I've said before, HPOs are told when to deploy because they are being groomed to be a future "leader."  Be proud of your combat/deployment experience and service to your country, but understand it won't make you an Air Force superstar.

[disgruntledemployee]

Caveats.

1. The path that worked for me will not work for you.

I started writing my own PRFs. A, it was the times, B, thats what folks did that were a bit out of the core AF (Joint), C, that was the advice I was given as a new Lt from the OG, (3x overall BTZ back when they did Maj BTZ).

I made Lt Col with a P while on a joint (other) staff and only a few DPs available.  I put all strats on the 1st line, command roles on the 2nd, all awards on the 3rd, and big ticket items in the middle.  I understood the game of those times and put the words on PRFs to match.

Key point:

Included were combat hrs and a combat story of leadership. And thats what combat will do, provide opportunities for the shit to hit the fan (it will, guaranteed) and you to roll in and LEAD.

So, if any of you ever get the North Koreans to grant clearance to land US Mil cargo in Pyongyang to deliver humanitarian air after thay have a natural disaster, you get O-5 automatically.

Out (3x 10% -OH IPAs this eve)

 

 

[Bender]

Caveats.
...will not work for you, it was times, as a new Lt, back when they, I put all strats on the 1st line, I understood the game of those times, thats what combat will do.

Dude, you're so old...you were old when I joined this board as a stupid student and I'm already old. It's like me talking about the model T when the kid is trying to tell me how cool his Tesla is.

If you were subjecting yourself to this monster out cluster of a fvck right now, you'd shoot exactly as many people in the head as you had bullets...minus one.

As for the PRF... if the strats had gone down the side in lieu of the worthless "stellar pilot" openers, there would be another entire line to talk about your career. Not saying it's right, or that there is more (as using the UCI shit on there at all would make me think there isn't. (No offense)

There should be an entire thread on this forum with successful PRFs.

Bendy

[Bender]

You can't bash old people here. Give me your username on Twitter so I can have the millennials bombard you with how insensitive you are Bendy.

Apparently. Made him mad too I guess. I don't have a twitter otherwise I would (probably not, definitely not). It was a joke; I don't apologize for jokes.

Bendy

[matmacwc]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:23 PM, disgruntledemployee said:

 

 

So, if any of you ever get the North Koreans to grant clearance to land US Mil cargo in Pyongyang to deliver humanitarian air after thay have a natural disaster, you get O-5 auto.

 

 

Go with story

Edited November 16, 2018 by matmacwc

[disgruntledemployee]

13 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Go with story

Just a made up example.  That would be a neat story tho.

Out

[otsap]

On 11/13/2018 at 4:23 PM, disgruntledemployee said:

So, if any of you ever get the North Koreans to grant clearance to land US Mil cargo in Pyongyang to deliver humanitarian air after thay have a natural disaster, you get O-5 automatically.

 

5 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Just a made up example.  That would be a neat story tho.

Out

Your example is pretty close to a recent reality actually.  In July the North Koreans granted clearance to land US Mil cargo in Wonsan (not Pyongyang) for humanitarian purposes (recovery of remains); no natural disaster though.  First US Mil in NK since the end of the Korean War.  IIRC, the NKs requested commercial air transport and Mattis told them to pound sand, that mil personnel would be brought home on mil aircraft.  This was part of Trump's first meeting/negotiation with lil Kim.