Promotion and PRF Information

[pawnman]

So I sat down with my wing commander, and here are the bullet points:

My recent record is pretty good, but the total record didn't complete well enough to get a DP.

I had a lot of "#1/x" for instructor, evaluator, shop chief, but not a lot of #x/xx captains, majors, CGO, or FGO.  Lesson learned... If your rater or SR is giving you a #1 that isn't CGO/FGO, push them for a CGO/FGO strat.  He told me even a #10/40 majors would have been more helpful than my #2/23 shop chiefs.

My pool was very competitive.  My base was not the only one with too few officers to get an outright DP, so I was competing with others who would have gotten a DP at their wings if there were more people within the wing.  

Bottom line - if you rate on guys, don't give them a #1 of x in a category the board doesn't care about at the expense of a #x/xx (assuming it's a decent one) CGO/FGO or captain/major strat.

I sure wish someone had said that to me about two years ago.

On the bright side, he said boards have largely stopped punishing the lack of staff.  We're starting to normalize people staying in the cockpit, because that is what Big Blue has asked of us.

[bennynova]

Just got my PRF back. 

   I was told it was middle of the road. Sounds like i’ll Have a tough time getting a DP next year IPZ in my current organization

#1/6 CGOs, #2/15 CGOs, #1/9 CGOs, 3x CGOQ (20+ denom)

4 OPRs as Maj... all with strats

  #1/4 Majs (deployed), #5/24 Majs Gp CC, #22/140 Majs Wg CC, #8/150 Majs Wg CC, 2x FGOY, numerous FGOQs, 

no DGs

 

i’ll only have one more OPR before IPZ board meets

 

Middle of the road to me doesn’t bode well for promotion.  am I really doomed?    My SR has very few Majs now.

 

[Homestar]

I'd suggest, if you aren't already, getting a job where you work for the Wg/CC.  IG, XP, CCE, CAG, whatever.

[jrizzell]

16 hours ago, Homestar said:

Because he’s APZ? Isn’t the Board instructed to disregard year group these days?

Looking at AFPC stats with a P and APZ

2018: 2.5%

2017: 3.2%

2016: 0.6%

2015: 2.9%

2014: 0.2%

So chances aren’t in their favor without  DP 

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, bennynova said:

Just got my PRF back. 

   I was told it was middle of the road. Sounds like i’ll Have a tough time getting a DP next year IPZ in my current organization

#1/6 CGOs, #2/15 CGOs, #1/9 CGOs, 3x CGOQ (20+ denom)

4 OPRs as Maj... all with strats

  #1/4 Majs (deployed), #5/24 Majs Gp CC, #22/140 Majs Wg CC, #8/150 Majs Wg CC, 2x FGOY, numerous FGOQs, 

no DGs

 

i’ll only have one more OPR before IPZ board meets

 

Middle of the road to me doesn’t bode well for promotion.  am I really doomed?    My SR has very few Majs now.

 

Dude if those strats are middle of the road I must have been a turd burglar on active duty as a CGO! 🤣

#8/150 Majors is top 5% and now you’re “middle of the road?” The active duty rating system is broken for the 69% of dudes who are not shiny pennies nor bottom feeders. Dudes in that vast “middle of the road” have no idea where they stand and even worse, there is no real incentive to try harder when their fate is already likely sealed.

Theres a big god damned difference beteeen 15th percentile and 85th percentile but hey, thanks for playing. I guess with manning almost everyone should be free to be continued at O4 indefinitely, but that’s cold comfort for many dudes who were thinking O5 was the “standard career.”

Edited February 5, 2019 by nsplayr

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, bennynova said:

Just got my PRF back. 

   I was told it was middle of the road. Sounds like i’ll Have a tough time getting a DP next year IPZ in my current organization

#1/6 CGOs, #2/15 CGOs, #1/9 CGOs, 3x CGOQ (20+ denom)

4 OPRs as Maj... all with strats

  #1/4 Majs (deployed), #5/24 Majs Gp CC, #22/140 Majs Wg CC, #8/150 Majs Wg CC, 2x FGOY, numerous FGOQs, 

no DGs

 

i’ll only have one more OPR before IPZ board meets

 

Middle of the road to me doesn’t bode well for promotion.  am I really doomed?    My SR has very few Majs now.

 

There's no way that's middle of the road.  Second the advice of getting a job on the Wing Staff if able, but those strats are good enough for a DP, depending on your competition.

[dream big]

5 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Dude if those strats are middle of the road I must have been a turd burglar on active duty as a CGO! 🤣

#8/150 Majors is top 5% and now you’re “middle of the road?” The active duty rating system is broken for the 69% of dudes who are not shiny pennies nor bottom feeders. Dudes in that vast “middle of the road” have no idea where they stand and even worse, no real incentive to try harder when their fate is already likely sealed.

Theres a big god damned difference beteeen 15th percentile and 85th percentile but hey, thanks for playing. I guess with manning almost everyone should be free to be continued at O4 indefinitely but that’s cold comfort for many dudes who were thinking O5 was the “standard career.”

This is my confusion as well, how the hell is this middle of the road with multiple top tier strats? Sounds like the dude’s SR either doesn’t know what he is talking about or is playing games.

[ThreeHoler]

Just got my PRF back. 
   I was told it was middle of the road. Sounds like i’ll Have a tough time getting a DP next year IPZ in my current organization
#1/6 CGOs, #2/15 CGOs, #1/9 CGOs, 3x CGOQ (20+ denom)
4 OPRs as Maj... all with strats
  #1/4 Majs (deployed), #5/24 Majs Gp CC, #22/140 Majs Wg CC, #8/150 Majs Wg CC, 2x FGOY, numerous FGOQs, 
no DGs
 
i’ll only have one more OPR before IPZ board meets
 
Middle of the road to me doesn’t bode well for promotion.  am I really doomed?    My SR has very few Majs now.
 

That is someone trying to squeeze blood from a stone (you)...”he’ll work harder for the DP over the next year and make me look good...”

[Ash]

17 hours ago, pawnman said:

I hope you're right, but previous years statistics seem to contradict your statement.

+1 on this. Previous statistics confirm less than 3% chance for ABZ, and no DP.

[bennynova]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

This is my confusion as well, how the hell is this middle of the road with multiple top tier strats? Sounds like the dude’s SR either doesn’t know what he is talking about or is playing games.

Thanks, guys.   I’m under the impression that he doesn’t know quite what he’s talking about....

this is his first time as a SR and he only has 2 IPZ and 1 BPZ for this board.

Thems the breaks moving from such a huge organization to such a small one.  Many hear have alluded to it as well.

[Muscle2002]

10 hours ago, pawnman said:

So I sat down with my wing commander, and here are the bullet points:

My recent record is pretty good, but the total record didn't complete well enough to get a DP.

I had a lot of "#1/x" for instructor, evaluator, shop chief, but not a lot of #x/xx captains, majors, CGO, or FGO.  Lesson learned... If your rater or SR is giving you a #1 that isn't CGO/FGO, push them for a CGO/FGO strat.  He told me even a #10/40 majors would have been more helpful than my #2/23 shop chiefs.

My pool was very competitive.  My base was not the only one with too few officers to get an outright DP, so I was competing with others who would have gotten a DP at their wings if there were more people within the wing.  

Bottom line - if you rate on guys, don't give them a #1 of x in a category the board doesn't care about at the expense of a #x/xx (assuming it's a decent one) CGO/FGO or captain/major strat.

I sure wish someone had said that to me about two years ago.

On the bright side, he said boards have largely stopped punishing the lack of staff.  We're starting to normalize people staying in the cockpit, because that is what Big Blue has asked of us.

Your strats, as stated, do not appear to be middle-of-the-road.  That said, do you think there is a chance he meant middle-of-the-road as compared to other BPZ records?  Given that your record only competed for an aggregate DP against other BPZ records, he may have meant that your record was "average" among the people all being pushed for a DP BPZ.  Note also that the BPZ promotion rate is generally <5%, thus even with your strong strats, the odds are not high at being picked up BPZ for any officer.

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, Muscle2002 said:

Your strats, as stated, do not appear to be middle-of-the-road.  That said, do you think there is a chance he meant middle-of-the-road as compared to other BPZ records?  Given that your record only competed for an aggregate DP against other BPZ records, he may have meant that your record was "average" among the people all being pushed for a DP BPZ.  Note also that the BPZ promotion rate is generally <5%, thus even with your strong strats, the odds are not high at being picked up BPZ for any officer.

I'm IPZ.  If I'd had those strats on more than one OPR, is have been more competitive.  But I got the FGO strat on my last OPR, and the major strat on the PRF.  So the record overall is kind of middle-to-top-third, because I don't have CGO or FGO strats throughout.

At least, that's what he told me.

[bennynova]

I think he mixed us up or misquoted, pawnman

[Muscle2002]

43 minutes ago, bennynova said:

I think he mixed us up or misquoted, pawnman

I must have fat-fingered the quote.  I meant to reply to your post.  Stupid fingers!

[pawnman]

29 minutes ago, Muscle2002 said:

I must have fat-fingered the quote.  I meant to reply to your post.  Stupid fingers!

That makes more sense.  Gotta stop replying first thing in the morning.

[BADFNZ]

I'm so glad I'm separating and DGAF about promotion stats anymore.  Reading this thread makes me want to kick a puppy.  Good luck fellas.

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, BADFNZ said:

I'm so glad I'm separating and DGAF about promotion stats anymore.  Reading this thread makes me want to kick a puppy.  Good luck fellas.

2

[MooseAg03]

I'm so glad I'm separating and DGAF about promotion stats anymore.  Reading this thread makes me want to kick a puppy.  Good luck fellas.

3

 

 

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[celtic020]

Everyone's gotta make a call on what's best for them and their families -- I certainly don't begrudge anyone deciding to get out or deciding to stay in....but trading information that can strengthen your record, PRF, and chances for promotion on future boards is worthwhile to me and I appreciate the discussion.  To those bouncing to greener pastures, fly safe and hook me up with a buddy pass....Cheers!

[IDALPHA]

13 hours ago, celtic020 said:

Everyone's gotta make a call on what's best for them and their families -- I certainly don't begrudge anyone deciding to get out or deciding to stay in....but trading information that can strengthen your record, PRF, and chances for promotion on future boards is worthwhile to me and I appreciate the discussion.  To those bouncing to greener pastures, fly safe and hook me up with a buddy pass....Cheers!

Are you a pilot?

[celtic020]

8 hours ago, IDALPHA said:

Are you a pilot?

Nav aka no transferrable job skills what so ever.  

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, celtic020 said:

Nav aka no transferrable job skills what so ever.  

Same.  Plus, I took the bonus.

[Guardian]

No transferable? I have trouble believing that. I know there aren’t navs or flight engineers in civi world any longer but I would say your time to a regional has to be easier than the average civilian. Your skills can translate to getting your pilot qual’s and licensees. Buy a plane and fly while still on active duty and build your time.

[viper154]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

No transferable? I have trouble believing that. I know there aren’t navs or flight engineers in civi world any longer but I would say your time to a regional has to be easier than the average civilian. Your skills can translate to getting your pilot qual’s and licensees. Buy a plane and fly while still on active duty and build your time.

I’ve met several prior WSO/CSO types that were doing contractor RPA work (sensor operator) either as school house instructors or line fliers. $100k+ jobs 

Edited February 8, 2019 by viper154

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

No transferable? I have trouble believing that. I know there aren’t navs or flight engineers in civi world any longer but I would say your time to a regional has to be easier than the average civilian. Your skills can translate to getting your pilot qual’s and licensees. Buy a plane and fly while still on active duty and build your time.

You make it sound so easy...