Promotion and PRF Information

[SFG]

9 hours ago, Swizzle said:

I corroborate his hearsay, its not the MLR nor for the MLR's function. Instead to gather empirical data of new vs old way of PRFs against two promotion boards. Senior leaders needs data before a decision to make PRFs much shorter...

I think he’s actually referring to the mock board for competitive categories, i.e. aviators only competing against aviators for promotion.

[Swizzle]

2 minutes ago, Klepto said:

I think he’s actually referring to the mock board for competitive categories, i.e. aviators only competing against aviators for promotion.

I've heard they want to do that too before seperating the LAF into functional fields promotion categories.

Which if they did that... How would the institutional job requirements (i.e. school instructors, Recruiters, etc.) be promoted? And against who? I believe they'd be short-changed and even worse off than before. If communities don't value institutional positions now, what would seperating them out do!?!  Or would they fight over a promotion aggregate like an AF MLR notion?

[SFG]

8 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Which if they did that... How would the institutional job requirements (i.e. school instructors, Recruiters, etc.) be promoted? And against who? I believe they'd be short-changed and even worse off than before.

Yep. Probably.

The pendulum swings yet again.

[jice]

8 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Which if they did that... How would the institutional job requirements (i.e. school instructors, Recruiters, etc.) be promoted? And against who? I believe they'd be short-changed and even worse off than before. If communities don't value institutional positions now, what would seperating them out do!?!  Or would they fight over a promotion aggregate like an AF MLR notion?

Could be an opportunity to align incentives and encourage the right folks to volunteer for these jobs. 

Want an SOS/OTS instructor (for example) with a rated background and a clue? Offer a (slight but measureable) advantage at promotion. Rated shiny pennies stay where they’re at; hopefully CCs have chosen those wisely... Slightly above average officers and average aviators who may be unlikely to earn a DP [and can stomach it] volunteer for what was formerly a dead-end job in order to increase the expected value of their career-long/life-long pay. Commanders, in turn, are incentivized to send folks they wouldn’t mind coming back to the community at +1 rank. (Nobody wants to figure out what to do with a no-talent, non-bro, lump who outranks most.)

We’d need to guarantee flight pay and some kind of return to fly assurance [tanking the airline opportunity works 100% counter to the intended incentive scheme], but incentive-wise it could be better than the “looks good for your career” half-truth-mostly-lie.  

Edited March 5, 2019 by jice

[SFG]

3 hours ago, jice said:

Slightly above average officers and average aviators who may be unlikely to earn a DP [and can stomach it] volunteer for what was formerly a dead-end job in order to increase the expected value of their career-long/life-long pay. Commanders, in turn, are incentivized to send folks they wouldn’t mind coming back to the community at +1 rank.

and we can call it AFPAK Hands!

But in all seriousness, with the DOPMA flexibility from congress this FY your vision is at least possible.

[panchbarnes]

Coming soon:  STEP promotion to Lt Col.

Commanders will be able to select one "Must Send" to IDE as another on-ramp opportunity for outstanding performers.

Let's hope this doesn't turn into the "Exec w/ an IDE follow-on" program.

By the way, this should put to rest any talk about skipping ACSC and making O5.

Edited March 13, 2019 by panchbarnes

[bennynova]

Define soon?

  And define commander? I.e., does any SRID make the call, or is it just a suggestion to MAJCOM or NAF level and they get to choose 1 from a pool?

[frog]

8 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Let's hope this doesn't turn into the "Exec w/ an IDE follow-on" program.

Is this not inevitable? The boss chooses his best qualified to be the exec from his perspective. Great commanders choose great execs. Bad commanders choose people just like themselves with the same bad leadership characteristics. Then, that person becomes a commander and gets promoted early...wash, rinse, repeat.

Exec duty isn’t a terrible thing (in hindsight). You learn a lot when you work for a good commander. The problem is that bad leaders find a way to propagate their flaws.

 

[FLEA]

We got this memo last week. It's based on SRID for SRs that have more than 20 elligible for IDE. They will get 1 DA "Definitely Attend" and everyone else will go into the traditional pool. Of the 500 something seats at ACSC about 220 will be allocated to DAs. Another 60 will be reserved exclusively for Majors in their last look window. 

[panchbarnes]

5 hours ago, bennynova said:

Define soon?

  And define commander? I.e., does any SRID make the call, or is it just a suggestion to MAJCOM or NAF level and they get to choose 1 from a pool?

*         Intermediate Developmental Education - FY19 program:  The

CSAF approved the new "Definitely Attend" process allowing Commanders to

identify one high performing airman to definitely attend IDE in-residence.

By pushing this authority down to the Commanders, who know their Airmen

best, we're giving them the flexibility to provide additional "on-ramp"

opportunities for an airman who is an outstanding performer. The MyVECTOR

window for candidates to input their desires and Commanders to input their

recommendations opened on 28 Feb 19 and runs through 29 Mar 19 (Note

eligible officers who are in Student Status (SRID ST101) need to have their

input done by 15 Mar 19).  Commanders must take time to discuss this process

with officers and provide candid feedback on the opportunity to attend

in-residence PME

[matmacwc]

You bet your ass the lowest it goes is Wing Commanders and turns into another boarded process, no matter how true the intent.

[pawnman]

38 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

You bet your ass the lowest it goes is Wing Commanders and turns into another boarded process, no matter how true the intent.

Even then, still better to have it at the wing level, where your WG/CC either knows you, or knows your OG/CC, who can advocate for you, right?

Because if your OG and WG/CCs aren't willing to advocate for you, you were never the intended target for this program.  I see it for folks like me... Mid-level strats as a CGO, then top 10-15% in the last two years as a major.  A guy like that will never make it competing against a series of records with #1/x stretching back to their LT days, but could be a candidate for a SR to say "he deserves this shot".

[Skitzo]

Like anything else. Good for some not good for others. I have a Maj strat that puts me in the top 10% of over 100 majors. I would argue that 20 vs 100 with only one def attend is disproportionate but I agree with putting it at a lower level.

How about we just abolish the boards and allocate the same as DPs?


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[jrizzell]

23 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Let's hope this doesn't turn into the "Exec w/ an IDE follow-on" program.

Not any knock on those who put in their time on that desk, but Big Blue has  enabled sending 220 Execs directly to school...do we think a Wing/CC will send anyone else??

[pawnman]

47 minutes ago, jrizzell said:

Not any knock on those who put in their time on that desk, but Big Blue has  enabled sending 220 Execs directly to school...do we think a Wing/CC will send anyone else??

Given that the execs are likely already the DP, #1/xx, etc... They were already going to school.  Why would a WG/CC use his only leverage to get a good dude on the bubble for school a slot to send someone who already had a lock on it?

Alternatively, if every WG/CC gives this to their exec - it takes those execs out of the boarding process, meaning everyone else no longer has to compete with those shiny pennies.

[osulax05]

What pawnman said.

Wing CCs know that their #1 and probably #2 push are a lock for school (assuming the record matches the push) so why would they waste the “DA” on someone like that? The best use of the DA is to get the late bloomers or those with bad timing due to PCS, extended deployments, etc to school. 

 

 

[jrizzell]

4 hours ago, osulax05 said:

The best use of the DA is to get the late bloomers or those with bad timing due to PCS, extended deployments, etc to school. 

 

 

This absolutely would be the best way to use a DA. But as that is common sense and logical; it has no place in this decision process 😬

I hope this turns out like it should...

Edited March 14, 2019 by jrizzell

[BADFNZ]

4 hours ago, osulax05 said:

What pawnman said.

Wing CCs know that their #1 and probably #2 push are a lock for school (assuming the record matches the push) so why would they waste the “DA” on someone like that? The best use of the DA is to get the late bloomers or those with bad timing due to PCS, extended deployments, etc to school. 

 

 

That sounds great in theory but we all know this is not how it will go down.  The DA will go to his #1 to ensure that his shiny penny goes to IDE and not leave it up to a board where it is out of his hands. 

[gimmeaplane]

41 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

That sounds great in theory but we all know this is not how it will go down.  The DA will go to his #1 to ensure that his shiny penny goes to IDE and not leave it up to a board where it is out of his hands. 

Totally up to the senior rater.  Luck & timing.

Let’s not forget we’re talking about DE...don’t fret about whether the ugly chick asks you to dance.

[di1630]

Felt real nice to click to click “confirm” to opt out of consideration. Great system.



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[panchbarnes]

I wasn't knocking the exec position (see my post about promotion from several months ago).  Agree on the execs usually get the top strat but not guaranteed school.  Wing execs are also usually Captains so probably won't benefit from DA. 

I think the new DA option is a step in the right direction to help uncover the "hidden gems."  Just can't help but be a little cynical because CSAF guidance doesn't always get implemented correctly at the Senior Rater's level.

Oh and the 2-line PRF is definitely coming this fall.

Edited March 14, 2019 by panchbarnes

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

That sounds great in theory but we all know this is not how it will go down.  The DA will go to his #1 to ensure that his shiny penny goes to IDE and not leave it up to a board where it is out of his hands. 

Even if they do, it means the rest don't have to compete against that #1 guy on the board.

[Skitzo]

That sounds great in theory but we all know this is not how it will go down.  The DA will go to his #1 to ensure that his shiny penny goes to IDE and not leave it up to a board where it is out of his hands. 

 

Agreed. If not it’s like taking the #1 dude for a promotion board and giving him a P. Won’t happen.

 

 

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[SFG]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Even if they do, it means the rest don't have to compete against that #1 guy on the board.

Compete against the #1 guy for 10 slots or don’t compete against him for 9 slots. Tomato tomato.

[celtic020]

Confirmed 2-line PRFs fall and later.  I say Bravo.