Promotion and PRF Information

[IDALPHA]

1 hour ago, bennynova said:

I get what you are saying.... but i don’t think it’s because we think ACSC (or trying) is uncool....    I think the system is broken....and people who don’t get promoted sometimes are better than some that are promoted.

We do like to complain as a whole 

Using a ballwash online course to determine who gets the nod for promotion is a perfect representation of what’s broken. That’s the point. Not complaint.

That said, if you’re a bonus takier, prior E locked to 20, or a non pilot I understand greasing the skids to get that pay bump. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by IDALPHA

[Shazaam]

2 hours ago, bennynova said:

I get what you are saying.... but i don’t think it’s because we think ACSC (or trying) is uncool....    I think the system is broken....and people who don’t get promoted sometimes are better than some that are promoted.

We do like to complain as a whole 

We have some damn good flyers that are really intelligent and great leaders. Smart enough to know you don't have to do ACSC, yet you can become a civilian and thrive. People will actually listen to your ideas in the civilian job sector and not focus on rudimentary s$#@t like uniforms.

Our personalities and ability to lead gives us a great advantage over civilians. Everyone has value, don't let someone make you think a silver oak leaf matters in the end. We will all retire someday. Once you retire, you will be just like every other civilian and that silver oak leaf or title of Lt Col won't matter to anyone but you. You will still have to wait in line like everyone else at the Commissary, Walmart, and Target. No rock star parking for you.

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Shazaam

[pawnman]

6 minutes ago, Shazaam said:

We have some damn good flyers that are really intelligent and great leaders. Smart enough to know you don't have to do ACSC, yet you can become a civilian and thrive. People will actually listen to your ideas in the civilian job sector and not focus on uniforms.

Our personalities and ability to lead gives us a great advantage over civilians. Everyone has value, don't let someone make you think a silver oak leaf matters. We will all retire someday. Once you retire, you will be just like everyone else and that oak leaf or title won't matter to anyone but you. You will still have to wait in line like everyone else at the commissary, Walmart, and Target. 

 

It's not about the color of the oak leaves.  It's about the extra $5k a year in retirement pay.

[Shazaam]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

It's not about the color of the oak leaves.  It's about the extra $5k a year in retirement pay.

Do you my man! I am not mad at you bro.

But as I wait to retire without having completed any form of ACSC, I be like:

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Shazaam

[bennynova]

Pawnman,  Go blow out your joints and you can bank much more than $5k per year

[SocialD]

For the ARC guys in the room...while a PITA, after running some numbers, I found doing ACSC (correspondence) worth it.  Even though I won't be getting my part timer retirement until I'm 58ish, the payoff is fairly substantial.  Couldn't care less if my ID/retirement paperwork says maj or lt col.  I knocked most of it out over a deployment or while on airline trips.  Of note, I'm a prior-e that is eligible for lt col at 18 YOS so I'll only need to extend a small time to hit my three years.  Thankful for a unit that doesn't do bullshit like keep make their Majors and Lt Col ROPMA.  In that case, there's no way I'd do ACSC...I'll refer back to Shazaams gif.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, bennynova said:

Pawnman,  Go blow out your joints and you can bank much more than $5k per year

Yeah, but then I have to pay back the "unearned" portion of the bonus.

[pawnman]

31 minutes ago, joe1234 said:

Fair point, but having to even care about a 5k/yr difference in retirement pay is not exactly my idea of "success".

I took the bonus.  Life's not bad in my corner of the Air Force.  Delta isn't hiring 12Bs, so it's not like I'm giving up a valuable airline career.

I can either retire as a major, or as a LtCol.  Those are the options based on decisions that I've already made.  Therefore, I'd rather get the promotion and the extra pension money.

Good for all of you bailing at the earliest opportunity.  Good for you if you don't want to do the bullshit online course.  I already did it when I got a line number to major, hoping I could get picked up for a joint school or a fellowship.  Didn't work, but I also didn't exactly sink a lot of hours into it, and almost no time outside work.

The way I see it, it's got more likelihood to impact my promotion chances than anything else I would have been working on in the jobs I had while completing the course online.  I knew what the rules were, and I tried to play by them.

I don't wish anyone ill-will for wanting to leave, but holy fuck, does it get old looking for career advice and all anyone says is "GTFO, Air Force is a sinking ship, airlines, airlines, airlines".  Not exactly actionable data for guys who want to make a career out of it.

[Sprkt69]

35 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I took the bonus.  Life's not bad in my corner of the Air Force.  Delta isn't hiring 12Bs, so it's not like I'm giving up a valuable airline career.

I can either retire as a major, or as a LtCol.  Those are the options based on decisions that I've already made.  Therefore, I'd rather get the promotion and the extra pension money.

Good for all of you bailing at the earliest opportunity.  Good for you if you don't want to do the bullshit online course.  I already did it when I got a line number to major, hoping I could get picked up for a joint school or a fellowship.  Didn't work, but I also didn't exactly sink a lot of hours into it, and almost no time outside work.

The way I see it, it's got more likelihood to impact my promotion chances than anything else I would have been working on in the jobs I had while completing the course online.  I knew what the rules were, and I tried to play by them.

I don't wish anyone ill-will for wanting to leave, but holy fuck, does it get old looking for career advice and all anyone says is "GTFO, Air Force is a sinking ship, airlines, airlines, airlines".  Not exactly actionable data for guys who want to make a career out of it.

And good luck bailing water on the Titanic. I hear management really listens to its people

[Ryder]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

I took the bonus.  Life's not bad in my corner of the Air Force.  Delta isn't hiring 12Bs, so it's not like I'm giving up a valuable airline career.

I can either retire as a major, or as a LtCol.  Those are the options based on decisions that I've already made.  Therefore, I'd rather get the promotion and the extra pension money.

Good for all of you bailing at the earliest opportunity.  Good for you if you don't want to do the bullshit online course.  I already did it when I got a line number to major, hoping I could get picked up for a joint school or a fellowship.  Didn't work, but I also didn't exactly sink a lot of hours into it, and almost no time outside work.

The way I see it, it's got more likelihood to impact my promotion chances than anything else I would have been working on in the jobs I had while completing the course online.  I knew what the rules were, and I tried to play by them.

I don't wish anyone ill-will for wanting to leave, but holy , does it get old looking for career advice and all anyone says is "GTFO, Air Force is a sinking ship, airlines, airlines, airlines".  Not exactly actionable data for guys who want to make a career out of it.

Give the man a break.  Part of the reason the Air Force is sinking is because a lot of the good dudes decide to get out versus putting in the effort to fix anything.  With that being said , I am choosing to get out ASAP but don’t bring down the people who play the game to potentially make it to a point where they can make a difference.  Just because their path is different from yours doesn’t mean it’s a bad or wrong path.  It’s just different. Let’s be honest , if you don’t check the containers right now you’re never going to be in a leadership position to actually change anything worthwhile.  Some people are going to have to take the plunge.  

[Shazaam]

1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said:

And good luck bailing water on the Titanic. I hear management really listens to its people

Bro, let Pawnman be happy. Buckets won't help, but a "little" Flex Seal might! You just never know. #Innovation

Edited April 21, 2019 by Shazaam

[Jmnngata]

Our CAG got ahold of Gen Kelly’s briefing for the upcoming CORONA prep. He is recommending new LAF categories breaking out ops/support/acquisition. There is also a push for shorter OPRs with both the rarer and additional rarer ranking performance on a 1-7 scale. He is not recommending static closeout dates. 

Who knows what will be approved and when but this seems like a step in the right direction. 

[bennynova]

Firewall 7s!!

 

i think static closeouts are the right answer

[Shazaam]

16 hours ago, Jmnngata said:

Our CAG got ahold of Gen Kelly’s briefing for the upcoming CORONA prep. He is recommending new LAF categories breaking out ops/support/acquisition. There is also a push for shorter OPRs with both the rarer and additional rarer ranking performance on a 1-7 scale. He is not recommending static closeout dates. 

Who knows what will be approved and when but this seems like a step in the right direction. 

My CC was saying ACSC shouldn't be a factor for Lt Col. Ironically, one of her mentors is Gen Kelly.

She told me if our colonel doesn't get her an assignment to where she wants next, a phone call will be made to Gen Kelly. I was like damn, she has star power like that eh?

Edited April 24, 2019 by Shazaam

[Gazmo]

It's not about the color of the oak leaves.  It's about the extra $5k a year in retirement pay.

Not worth it....

[Gazmo]

For the ARC guys in the room...while a PITA, after running some numbers, I found doing ACSC (correspondence) worth it.  Even though I won't be getting my part timer retirement until I'm 58ish, the payoff is fairly substantial.  Couldn't care less if my ID/retirement paperwork says maj or lt col.  I knocked most of it out over a deployment or while on airline trips.  Of note, I'm a prior-e that is eligible for lt col at 18 YOS so I'll only need to extend a small time to hit my three years.  Thankful for a unit that doesn't do bullshit like keep make their Majors and Lt Col ROPMA.  In that case, there's no way I'd do ACSC...I'll refer back to Shazaams gif.

Last time I ran the numbers for myself, it was going to be somewhere around $300 per month net difference in todays dollars with almost 5,000 points. Not sure what your idea of "worth it" is, but $300 a month isn't it for me especially when I'd have to do nearly 22 years to get it, but I just about ROPMA'd to O-4.

[SocialD]

8 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Last time I ran the numbers for myself, it was going to be somewhere around $300 per month net difference in todays dollars with almost 5,000 points. Not sure what your idea of "worth it" is, but $300 a month isn't it for me especially when I'd have to do nearly 22 years to get it, but I just about ROPMA'd to O-4.

Ya, everyone has a different definition of "worth it."  For me, I'll only have to stick around another year, which is fairly easy considering I live < 10 minutes from the Guard and within an hour of the airline.  It also helps that my squadron is extremely flexible with scheduling.  My gross difference will be closer to $600/month or about an extra $140k if I live 20 years past when I start receiving my retirement (57-58).  I'll make an extra $7k on our next deployment and an extra $6k/yr to do the same job as a part-timer.  It will also be nice to have as insurance in case anything goes wrong with the airlines.  Seems kinda silly for me to pass up on that just because I was too lazy to take some quizzes and write a few papers...papers that I'm convinced only need to have the proper formatting to pass.  I completed ACSC over about 4 years while on deployments/TDYs/drill days/airline layovers...so I was never not getting paid to work on it.   

Had my squadron not promoted us as soon as we were eligible or adopted the ridiculous policy of forcing their guys to ROPMA (even for O-4 in some squadrons), I would be in the same boat as you.  

[IDALPHA]

Choosing to skip ACSC online is not due to laziness... Its proving that it’s completely worthless. Just like you said, all it takes is formatting of a paper (or marking answer “c” / “too long to be wrong”) to pass. Again validation what a waste of time/money/resources  the course truly is.

Edited April 24, 2019 by IDALPHA

[SocialD]

5 hours ago, IDALPHA said:

Choosing to skip ACSC online is not due to laziness... Its proving that it’s completely worthless. Just like you said, all it takes is formatting of a paper (or marking answer “c” / “too long to be wrong”) to pass. Again validation what a waste of time/money/resources  the course truly is.

 

I get everyone has their own reasons, but I most certainly would have considered myself lazy had I not done it.  If you want to talk colossal waste of time/money/resources...we can look at my last two "deployments" (which happens to be where I did a vast majority of my ACSC).  8 months worth of deployments to sit and fly training lines...with the 2nd deployment being in such a shitty weather location that we actually cancelled as much as we flew.  At least the next time they send us on another bullshit deployment they'll be paying me extra cash for my efforts.  Or I could have just skipped it and let them pay me a shit ton less over my remaining time in the military/retirement years...that would have showed them!  

 

[pawnman]

Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

[Shazaam]

48 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

You could be in for a shock. Boss told me don't worry about ACSC or receiving a "P." I'm not worried at all to be honest. Everything happens for a reason.

It would just suck for the people who did complete ACSC, if the board actually promoted the personnel who didn't do it. I just became a DO of a non-flying squadron. Not sure how the board will view my record as a sitting DO. I PCS'd just in time to have my duty title updated on my SURF.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Shazaam

[FUSEPLUG]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

I'm an '05 guy and I'm not doing it.  I'm in the Guard though, so that probably doesn't help you much.  🍻

I gave up way too many beautiful weekend afternoons while on Active Duty writing useless papers for an even more useless MBA that I really didn't need/want in the first place.  I practiced bleeding with SOS in correspondence so that I could go in residence.  About the only good that came from that was that I learned that I needed to get off AD ASAP.  

There's no way in hell I'm going to spend the next few years with that constant nagging of having to do some stupid module for ACSC. For what - an extra $300-$600 a month in 20 years?  I've got way to much other fun stuff I need to do when I'm not giving up my days off from the airline to knock out NVG currencies and SABC. 

[14N Guy]

2 hours ago, Shazaam said:

You could be in for a shock. Boss told me don't worry about ACSC or receiving a "P." I'm not worried at all to be honest. Everything happens for a reason.

It would just suck for the people who did complete ACSC, if the board actually promoted the personnel who didn't do it. I just became a DO of a non-flying squadron. Not sure how the board will view my record as a sitting DO. I PCS'd just in time to have my duty title updated on my SURF.

So I did ACSC via correspondence. A few years later I decided to do the OLMP (already had a Masters, but it was free so why not?). Won an award with my research paper (my name is on a plaque at a school I have never set foot in) and was a sitting DO in a non-flying SQ and still got passed over.

YMMV, but, I think it’s really about how much your leadership likes you and is willing to go to bat for you. I say do ACSC if it interests you. If it doesn't, then don’t. It won’t be the thing that tips your promotability one way or the other. Your records did that years ago.

[BashiChuni]

i will say i wish i had gotten my masters. not cause of anything big blue related...but as i fill out my civilian resume it'd be a nice additional line to have on there

and big blue could have paid for it.

kind of think the same thing about ACSC...is it dumb? sure. but it's one more professional "school" to add for future civilian endeavors.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BashiChuni

[IDALPHA]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

i will say i wish i had gotten my masters. not cause of anything big blue related...but as i fill out my civilian resume it'd be a nice additional line to have on there

and big blue could have paid for it.

kind of think the same thing about ACSC...is it dumb? sure. but it's one more professional "school" to add for future civilian endeavors.

The exact reason I got my masters (for free with TA) was for my resume outside the AF.... sounds like that was at least a good move.