Promotion and PRF Information

[jice]

3 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Umm, why during an aircrew retention (no longer a crisis?) wouldn’t they allocate a higher percentage of the selects to critical AFSCs? If the promotion rate for pilots decreases, and increases for other LAF categories, retention will only get worse.


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Sportbitching:

That’s fine. We won’t need aviators after the 69th iteration. By then the United States Personnel and Base Agency Support Force will be in the capable hands of those who finally got us out of the frivolous business of air power.

A moment of thought:

This isn’t a college application process where failure to be selected carries forfeiture of a $50 application fee; here it’s a life’s work and associated compensation. Decreasing opportunity for people to effect the organization in which they are considering spending their lives will result in less investment across the board. Opportunity cost vs. relative value. I’d expect that effect to be true in particular amongst those driven to have a meaningful impact with their life’s work.

Promotion for quality isn’t simply picking your best folks; it’s convincing your nascent best folks 5 years before the board that if they work hard they’ll be rewarded. Smart people don’t stick around to get f*cked. Delta, state government, the FAA, McDonald’s, and the Church all need fantastic leaders too. Those jobs don’t come with such a narrow temporal window of opportunity, but earlier is generally better.  

TLDR; Do we value experience in our service’s mission here or not? If so, let’s get the incentives straight.

Related: got to fly a fkn fighter jet today. The job in itself is awesome. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by jice

[17D_guy]

3 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Umm, why during an aircrew retention (no longer a crisis?) wouldn’t they allocate a higher percentage of the selects to critical AFSCs? If the promotion rate for pilots decreases, and increases for other LAF categories, retention will only get worse.


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Because there's so few pilots compared to the other categories?  Just thinking, not saying it's right.

Be interesting to see what happens to cyber.  Finally got CSAF/SECAF to agree your comm sq officer and your cyber effects officer aren't actually the same AFSC and should be split.  I can hear the gnashing of teeth from AFPC...

[Shazaam]

50 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

Because there's so few pilots compared to the other categories?  Just thinking, not saying it's right.

Be interesting to see what happens to cyber.  Finally got CSAF/SECAF to agree your comm sq officer and your cyber effects officer aren't actually the same AFSC and should be split.  I can hear the gnashing of teeth from AFPC...

 What did a Cyber Effects Officer do during all of OEF and OIF? We blew up everything electronic within the first few days during OIF. During OEF, you won't have any effects from the batteries going bad in the Taliban Speak & Spells. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Shazaam

[14N Guy]

2 hours ago, Shazaam said:

 What did a Cyber Effects Officer do during all of OEF and OIF? We blew up everything electronic within the first few days during OIF. During OEF, you won't have any effects from the batteries going bad in the Taliban Speak & Spells. 

OIF ended almost a decade ago. Cyber played a role in OIR and is where most of the fight against near-peer adversaries will take place.

There have been some big wins in the COIN/CT fight because of cyber. Not much of it can be talked about here though.

[14N Guy]

2 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Because there's so few pilots compared to the other categories?  Just thinking, not saying it's right.

Be interesting to see what happens to cyber.  Finally got CSAF/SECAF to agree your comm sq officer and your cyber effects officer aren't actually the same AFSC and should be split.  I can hear the gnashing of teeth from AFPC...

17s will be put with 14N’s and other non-rated ops and be an “information dominance” grouping.

One question I posed to a senior leader was how DP allocation would be impacted by this change. For example, there are boarded O-4 14N’s assigned to fighter wings. They are now at a larger disadvantage to their peers in ISR organizations because a FW/CC is more likely to give a DP to a record they understand. One option that my Senior Leader said could occur is MLR’s at the functional level.

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by 14N Guy

[Shazaam]

38 minutes ago, 14N Guy said:

OIF ended almost a decade ago. Cyber played a role in OIR and is where most of the fight against near-peer adversaries will take place.

There have been some big wins in the COIN/CT fight because of cyber. Not much of it can be talked about here though.

Some of us here flew missions during OIF. I hope we aren't mixing SIGINT with cyber because they aren't the same. Cyber has been around since I was a SIGINT analyst in the late 90s working at an agency I cannot discuss. Based on Operation Allied Force, OIF, and OEF the contributions are just piggy backing and none of the conflicts were shortened. In my opinion, adversaries are becoming smarter and the non flying side of the AF does an inadequate job of adapting on the fly. Unless cyber can repel "boots on the ground," then it's just another tool in our war chest.

Cyber bud PRF read he deployed once to BAF, but racked up 300+ kills. I'm like there are Special Ops Units that probably don't have that many kills. (Maybe I'm just hating.)

Edited May 3, 2019 by Shazaam

[14N Guy]

I’m not talking about SIGINT. Having worked at the same agency twice in the past 7 years I feel confident talking about the positive effects cyber brings to bear for the interests of the US. Although, I do think your definition of cyber success is limited.

Cyber can be used as both a hard and soft power (as I’m sure you are aware) and is used best when nobody even knows it is being used. But, the lines between ISR PED/analysis and cyber are blurring more and more everyday.

 

As far as over-inflated PRFs, I agree that it is absurd (I roll my eyes every time I see some 2Lt MOC claim 600 EKIA on their annual awards package). However, those are the ground rules that AF leaders set. I can’t fault somebody for playing the game within the rules that have been prescribed.

Edited May 3, 2019 by 14N Guy

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, 14N Guy said:

I’m not talking about SIGINT. Having worked at the same agency twice in the past 7 years I feel confident talking about the positive effects cyber brings to bear for the interests of the US. Although, I do think your definition of cyber success is limited.

Cyber can be used as both a hard and soft power (as I’m sure you are aware) and is used best when nobody even knows it is being used. But, the lines between ISR PED/analysis and cyber are blurring more and more everyday.

 

As far as over-inflated PRFs, I agree that it is absurd (I roll my eyes every time I see some 2Lt MOC claim 600 EKIA on their annual awards package). However, those are the ground rules that AF leaders set. I can’t fault somebody for playing the game within the rules that have been prescribed.

I will concur, cyber did some awesome shit in OIR and also GWOT. I had a very limited peak behind the curtain being at the right organization at the right time and I have a new respect for this field. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by FLEA

[Ash]

On 5/2/2019 at 7:32 AM, Klepto said:

Yet rumor also has it that one of those two lines must contain a strat of 1-n by rank meeting board and 1-n overall. That means the #100/100 guy will know immediately that he should update his airline apps.

. 

If this is accurate, this could be a good thing! Knowing what the boss truly thinks of would be a game changer. 

With a moment of duplicity, I find it ironic that I want to know exactly where I stand while keeping my intentions as veiled as possible and playing their promotion game.

How soon before this evolves into the meaningless shell game of: your my #1IP, your my #1SNACO, your my #1Pubs Ofcr. 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Ash said:

If this is accurate, this could be a good thing! Knowing what the boss truly thinks of would be a game changer. 

With a moment of duplicity, I find it ironic that I want to know exactly where I stand while keeping my intentions as veiled as possible and playing their promotion game.

How soon before this evolves into the meaningless shell game of: your my #1IP, your my #1SNACO, your my #1Pubs Ofcr. 

That's what my community was already doing.  Then when my O-5 PRF was written, I got a P.  WG/CC told me it was because I had a bunch of #1/x Instructor/shop chief/WSO/evaluator, but not a lot of X/XX CGO/FGO.  He even told me a #10/40 CGOs would have been more useful for a DP than my made up #1 strats.

Edited May 3, 2019 by pawnman

[bennynova]

Pawnman, did you make it!?

[pawnman]

11 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Pawnman, did you make it!?

Don't know yet.  I think public release will be around June.

[dream big]

12 hours ago, Shazaam said:

 What did a Cyber Effects Officer do during all of OEF and OIF? We blew up everything electronic within the first few days during OIF. During OEF, you won't have any effects from the batteries going bad in the Taliban Speak & Spells. 

Everyone likes to make fun of cyber but the effects that they bring to the fight these days are potent.  Most of the discussion is not appropriate for this forum but rest assured cyber will play a huge role in the next major war.  

[Guardian]

Everyone likes to make fun of cyber but the effects that they bring to the fight these days are potent.  Most of the discussion is not appropriate for this forum but rest assured cyber will play a huge role in the next major war.  

I agree. When our networks are routinely down and we can’t even do the basic functions of executing the mission let alone the more complex ones, I would agree cyber will play a huge role because nothing works.

[LookieRookie]

4 hours ago, dream big said:

Everyone likes to make fun of cyber but the effects that they bring to the fight these days are potent.  Most of the discussion is not appropriate for this forum but rest assured cyber will play a huge role in the next major war.  

I hear this is the exact phrase that 17S and 1B4s say at exercises when planners want to know their effects.

Not that you should talk about it on this forum but I wouldn't be surprised if cyber suffers from overclassification.

[Shazaam]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

That's what my community was already doing.  Then when my O-5 PRF was written, I got a P.  WG/CC told me it was because I had a bunch of #1/x Instructor/shop chief/WSO/evaluator, but not a lot of X/XX CGO/FGO.  He even told me a #10/40 CGOs would have been more useful for a DP than my made up #1 strats.

I had the exact same in my PRF..lol! I did have one DG, #1/30 CGOs, #1/15 FGOs, #2/15 FGOs, and #8/30 FGOs in Group. I even had a #1/10 SOFs in there lol. 

Hopefully, you make it. I get the feeling the non-ops side drive what is important on the board. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what the board values does change.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Shazaam

[BashiChuni]

Cyber will be king in the next major peer fight. What it brings to the table is incredible 

[pbar]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

Cyber will be king in the next major peer fight. What it brings to the table is incredible 

Until the bad guys patch their systems...

[magnetfreezer]

Until the bad guys patch their systems...

Don't worry they'll patch them by running McAfee and Tanium (2 antivirus programs that fight each other so your computer can't get anything done).

[17D_guy]

13 hours ago, Guardian said:

I agree. When our networks are routinely down and we can’t even do the basic functions of executing the mission let alone the more complex ones, I would agree cyber will play a huge role because nothing works.

That's comm (MSG)...not cyber (OG).  Hence the 2 AFSC's like I was saying for future promotions.

I'll have to update the Cyber Thread with the latest Open Source stuff that's gone on.  The part about soft-power is spot on.

Now I'm busy trying to deal with nerds that think "operators" (ex. pilots) don't have to manage their GTC's correctly, that OSD & COCOM/CC visits are just "ADCON getting in the way of Ops" and other such bullshit.

"No, motherfucker...you can't stay at the Marriott if there's lodging available on base."

[Seriously]

On 5/4/2019 at 10:27 AM, 17D_guy said:

That's comm (MSG)...not cyber (OG).  Hence the 2 AFSC's like I was saying for future promotions.

I'll have to update the Cyber Thread with the latest Open Source stuff that's gone on.  The part about soft-power is spot on.

Now I'm busy trying to deal with nerds that think "operators" (ex. pilots) don't have to manage their GTC's correctly, that OSD & COCOM/CC visits are just "ADCON getting in the way of Ops" and other such bullshit.

"No, motherfucker...you can't stay at the Marriott if there's lodging available on base."

You can... you just get reimbursed up to the rate for on base lodging.

[17D_guy]

9 hours ago, Seriously said:

You can... you just get reimbursed up to the rate for on base lodging.

No doubt.

That's not what they claim (they want full amount) and the Maj/Capt/Civ's are doing it and expect the SrA/SSgt's to float the remainder for 30+ day TDY's as well.

Enough derail, back to not doing ACSC!

[Shazaam]

3 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Back to not doing ACSC!

😐👎👎

[celtic020]

MyPers showing results reported to Air Staff and SecAF with an estimated late June release date for the last O-5 board.   Hopefully, at least for those of us that want it, we get some good news next month. 

[MCO]

On 5/3/2019 at 10:07 PM, Ash said:

If this is accurate, this could be a good thing! Knowing what the boss truly thinks of would be a game changer. 

With a moment of duplicity, I find it ironic that I want to know exactly where I stand while keeping my intentions as veiled as possible and playing their promotion game.

How soon before this evolves into the meaningless shell game of: your my #1IP, your my #1SNACO, your my #1Pubs Ofcr. 

We got the guidance today at my wing. Senior Rater gets one strat of the member against the other either I/APZ or BPZ members. IF they use that strat then they can additionally strat against a peer group, either same rank or duty. No FGO or CGO strat. Also no mention of anything except promotion in the push lines, IE no school push in the PRF. 

Im sure it will get fleshed out more in the coming days.

Edited May 7, 2019 by MCO