Promotion and PRF Information

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Well guys, thanks for the support.  I used to view this forum as a place to get the kind of honest feedback and insight that senior leadership refuses to give you in person.

But I guess we're down to mocking anyone who wants to get promoted and/or stay in the Air Force one day past their ADSC.

And we wonder why so few good people become senior leaders.  I submit that part of the reason is that we heap scorn on anyone who wants to be senior leaders, so the "good dudes" feel like that can't remain good dudes and play the promotion game.

Sorry for responding to a direct question with a direct answer.  Good luck to those who want to get promoted, and good luck to those who want out as soon as possible.  I don't understand why any of you continue to encourage people to join on the other parts of the forum.

This forum is good for some things. Horrible place to get career advice tho. 

[Danger41]

Well this took an interesting turn. Thanks for your candor, Pawnman.

[di1630]

Finally this thread got worth reading.


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[Shazaam]

7 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

I mean, they do have to listen because of his rank. Do they have to respect him personally? No. He also assumes responsibility when the E’s follow his orders and in the end it was a piss poor decision. The only way that doesn’t happen is if he’s a HPO and “forgiven” by senior commanders, which subsequently gets him promoted.

You never use your rank in order to get someone to do anything you ask. That's not leading. 

BREAK BREAK

What's the deal with writing people names in push lines? Brownie points or filler?

[Guest]

You never use your rank in order to get someone to do anything you ask. That's not leading. 
BREAK BREAK
What's the deal with writing people names in push lines? Brownie points or filler?

I hear it totally makes up for not doing ACSC.


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[Spaceballs]

Does anyone know why it takes so long for promotion board results to be finalized and released? The CY19D LAF major board met at the beginning of Dec 2018. The board results were supposed to be out originally in late Feb-early Mar. It seems that every couple weeks they move it back further. In the last week it just got moved from late May to early-mid June. What takes them so long?

[celtic020]

I’m with you Pawnman — there’s at least one more dude on here (me) that wants to get promoted.   1BPZ this year with a DP....cautiously optimistic.   

I was put in for a few FGO awards in my time as a Major but have never won anything.   I’m at a Joint Command...I sense the awards go to the people who they think may need the help but that could be incorrect.   What I do know is I don’t have so much as an FGO of the quarter to my name.  Hope that doesn’t burn me IPZ if I don’t make it this year.  

[McJay Pilot]

29 minutes ago, celtic020 said:

 Hope that doesn’t burn me IPZ if I don’t make it this year.  

I’d say your odds are pretty decent for 1 below. Ours went up blank with a “P” if leadership didn’t feel we had a chance, so if yours went up filled out and with a “DP” you’re not wrong in being “cautiously optimistic”. Plus, unless there’s a big shake-up (regime change, UIF, etc) before your IPZ package is submitted, you should still get a solid push in the zone as well. 

[Chromedome]

2 hours ago, Spaceballs said:

Does anyone know why it takes so long for promotion board results to be finalized and released? The CY19D LAF major board met at the beginning of Dec 2018. The board results were supposed to be out originally in late Feb-early Mar. It seems that every couple weeks they move it back further. In the last week it just got moved from late May to early-mid June. What takes them so long?

Last year it got pushed multiple times too.  I heard that the reason why last year was because SR’s gave folks promotes that probably shouldn’t have received them.  I’m in the same boat as you.  Waiting for them to update the promotion release.  Last year they released the Major promotion results June 19th .  

Edited May 13, 2019 by Chromedome

[14N Guy]

1 hour ago, celtic020 said:

I’m with you Pawnman — there’s at least one more dude on here (me) that wants to get promoted.   1BPZ this year with a DP....cautiously optimistic.   

I was put in for a few FGO awards in my time as a Major but have never won anything.   I’m at a Joint Command...I sense the awards go to the people who they think may need the help but that could be incorrect.   What I do know is I don’t have so much as an FGO of the quarter to my name.  Hope that doesn’t burn me IPZ if I don’t make it this year.  

I used to put myself in for awards every quarter. Mainly because those are what gives you record fodder and they also allow you to stand out against your peers when you are all doing similar jobs.

FGO awards at my Wing are given to the people the Wing wants to push for big opportunities, especially the FGOY award. I could actually call out who was going to win the FGOY in our Wing based on where they stood in relation to a school and promo push.

[bennynova]

Don’t get too overconfident with a DP BPZ 

we usually give 9 DPs BPZ and at most I’ve only seen 2 of the 9 receive a promotion BPZ

 

 

[Danger41]

Hopefully you put yourself in for a bunch of awards.

[tac airlifter]

FWIW, an FGO submitting themselves for OTQ/OTY awards would be a mark against them on any rack & stack I’m involved in.  I understand the logic, and I think it’s good to keep a list of things you’ve done in case your boss asks for some bullets.  However, what mission relevant task aren’t you doing while you spend time writing a 1206 for yourself?  Which of your people aren’t you putting in for awards while you craft one on yourself?  

I understand that our shitty system makes self-promotion attractive, but it’s a foul and I actively discourage it.  You want to get attention?  Submit 4 x 1206s on other people every quarter for a year.  Do one on someone you don’t supervise but notice doing an awesome job.  Invest your time building other folks up.  That will get you noticed positively.  

This isn’t a spear at Pawnman or anyone else.  I get it.  Just offering you some outside feedback on unintended consequences.  

[panchbarnes]

First of all, Pawnman was just simply answering someone else's question about his record, and he got unfairly lumped in with the other poster, who always sounds like he is trolling or humble bragging.  Pawnman has been around for a while and has contributed greatly here.

Quote

I understand that our shitty system makes self-promotion attractive, but it’s a foul and I actively discourage it.  You want to get attention?  Submit 4 x 1206s on other people every quarter for a year.  Do one on someone you don’t supervise but notice doing an awesome job.  Invest your time building other folks up.  That will get you noticed positively.  

I tend to concur with you; however, in other career fields, you can be seen as a scumbag for repeatedly not submitting your own package when there are calls for nominations.  Your boss is typically too busy with his own job to actually know what everyone does or submit his folks.  I haven't met an O6 that will actively mentor his people or submit them for anything.  It's not right, but it is what it is.  So by not submitting yourself, you are killing your own chance to be competitive.  In the past, I've been at units, where leadership decides who to submit depending based on popularity contest or if they had a shot at the HPO on-ramp, regardless of job performance.

And just to be clear, when we say FGO OTQ/OTY, we are talking about at the O4 level.

[BashiChuni]

Exhibit A why good dudes are leaving in droves and why the system is horribly broken. 

The only winning move is to not play. 

And spot on to Tacairlifter’s post. 

And I appreciate the neg reps it lowered me to “777”...keep that lucky number boys!!! 

Edited May 13, 2019 by BashiChuni

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

FWIW, an FGO submitting themselves for OTQ/OTY awards would be a mark against them on any rack & stack I’m involved in.  I understand the logic, and I think it’s good to keep a list of things you’ve done in case your boss asks for some bullets.  However, what mission relevant task aren’t you doing while you spend time writing a 1206 for yourself?  Which of your people aren’t you putting in for awards while you craft one on yourself?  

I understand that our shitty system makes self-promotion attractive, but it’s a foul and I actively discourage it.  You want to get attention?  Submit 4 x 1206s on other people every quarter for a year.  Do one on someone you don’t supervise but notice doing an awesome job.  Invest your time building other folks up.  That will get you noticed positively.  

This isn’t a spear at Pawnman or anyone else.  I get it.  Just offering you some outside feedback on unintended consequences.  

What you're saying would absolutely make sense if I were in a squadron, with other FGOs under me or in my shop.  I'm not... I'm competing against guys like the chief of flight safety, JAG, DS if he wants to submit...

Plus, I think this is a reason why rated officers don't get promoted at the same rate as non-rated officers... We actively discourage one another from getting recognition for good work.  Execs solicit award nominations, and 90% of the flyers actively avoid writing a 1206 unless ordered to.

[bennynova]

I didn’t play the game for 12 years

 

  time to start playing.   It doesn’t mean I think I deserve an award over the next guy, but i’m not leaving promotion to O5 to whether or not I have quarterly awards

 

 

[Danger41]

4 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Exhibit A why good dudes are leaving in droves and why the system is horribly broken. 

The only winning move is to not play. 

And spot on to Tacairlifter’s post. 

And I appreciate the neg reps it lowered me to “777”...keep that lucky number boys!!! 

Down voted for 777 maintenance.

[SFG]

I was at a non-standard assignment last year when the CC asked for award nominees. Neither myself nor any of my peers supervised anyone. A few lower performing individuals submitted themselves. For a fraction of a second I considered submitting myself, but I just couldn’t do it. I also thought that there was no way the Commander would pick those guys over someone else with great performance who wasn’t self-promoting. He had a lot of options that weren’t those guys or even me. (note this was not a 1206 award process). All those folks who submitted themselves got picked.

Pawnman might be on to something. What’s more frustrating than having to submit yourself for an award? Seeing those other guys win when you spent all year outworking and outperforming them. At least give it to the guy who outworked and outperformed me! Can’t imagine how irritated he is.

What’s more frustrating than that? Never knowing which Commander you work for... the “people-person” one who takes the “1206” directly from the “customer” to the “engineer” or the one who penalizes you for submitting yourself.

If only there were clear guidance on this...

You hear that Bobs?!

[Duck]

What about just having an honest conversation with your Commander and telling him you feel like you need to win an award to be competitive for where you want to go, but that you feel like a dirty man-slut for submitting yourself? Ask him for promotion advice and let him draw the conclusion that he needs to put you in a position to win said awards. The Commanders that I Exec’d for always seemed to get giddy when someone came in who actually wanted to be promoted in the AF and asked for advice on how to do it. Most of the Commanders I had loved talking about how they got promoted and how their path went. Just a suggestion.


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[Shazaam]

Could be totally wrong. But an O-6 who is a mentor looked at my surf without my knowledge. He never once asked how many awards have I won. Before my PCS, my former CC never said we need to have you win more awards to make O-5. I remember him saying being selected for a DO job might get me promoted. We all have to remember what the promotion boards value do change depending upon the climate of the AF right?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Shazaam

[mcbush]

On a totally different note, any SA or WAGs out there about what range of line numbers the academy guys usually wind up with for O-4?

[ThreeHoler]

1 to X where X is the number who graduated. Small adjustments for people who graduated in Dec, are APZ, etc.


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[tac airlifter]

6 hours ago, pawnman said:

What you're saying would absolutely make sense if I were in a squadron, with other FGOs under me or in my shop.  I'm not... I'm competing against guys like the chief of flight safety, JAG, DS if he wants to submit...

Plus, I think this is a reason why rated officers don't get promoted at the same rate as non-rated officers... We actively discourage one another from getting recognition for good work.  Execs solicit award nominations, and 90% of the flyers actively avoid writing a 1206 unless ordered to.

I completely understand your viewpoint, just offering an alternate COA.  Your highlighted section is accurate.  Imagine how useful it would be if you crushed out 1206s on others.  Again, I’m not throwing spears at you; I get your viewpoint and appreciate your candor.  

You will definitely get noticed by submitting awards on others.  Bosses notice a 100% increase in submissions generated by a single individual, and that attention doesn’t have the same potential to turn sour that self-promotion carries.  Just a thought.

Either way good luck and I hope you get promoted, cheers.

[mcbush]

47 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

1 to X where X is the number who graduated. Small adjustments for people who graduated in Dec, are APZ, etc.


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Copy, just wondering what proportion of ROTC/OTS guys EAD before the Academy folks every year.

i.e. if 2000 people are getting promoted, do the USAFA grads generally end up with line numbers 200-900, 1200-1900, etc. I’m sure it ebbs and flows a bit and isn’t important in the long run, just curious.