Promotion and PRF Information

[Breckey]

The 09 guys are about 300-1400

[Spaceballs]

17 hours ago, Chromedome said:

Last year it got pushed multiple times too.  I heard that the reason why last year was because SR’s gave folks promotes that probably shouldn’t have received them.  I’m in the same boat as you.  Waiting for them to update the promotion release.  Last year they released the Major promotion results June 19th .  

I wonder how the promotion board would know that. Maybe it's even a different level somewhere higher that's disagreeing with the 100% policy and trying to sift through records for DUI's, etc? I don't know. It just doesn't make sense that 100% promotion would need to take half a year or more to get approved. On that note though, why would it take months for any board to be approved once the board adjourns?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Spaceballs

[Chuck17]

18 hours ago, celtic020 said:

 1BPZ this year with a DP....cautiously optimistic.  

Generally BPZ w/DP select rates hover between 25-33%. 

Have DGs? Been a DO (for BPZ to LtCol)? WIC? School in-res? SAASS? Been an Exec/ADC for a three star or higher? OTY Award wins at Wing or AF level? Does your PRF have a strat in the bottom line? Is it signed by a GO? — chances trend higher with those markers.

(FWIW I recently saw the PRF of the CJCS’s Exec for BPZ to Col... had a DP from the Chairman and didn’t get picked up early - so it’s not ALL about recent performance or who signed your report - the record has to be there and consistent - but it helps)

If not, then have a realistic expectation for your DP and we will see you IPZ.

Chuck

[frog]

40 minutes ago, Spaceballs said:

I wonder how the promotion board would know that. Maybe it's even a different level somewhere higher that's disagreeing with the 100% policy and trying to sift through records for DUI's, etc? I don't know. It just doesn't make sense that 100% promotion would need to take half a year or more to get approved. On that note though, why would it take months for any board to be approved once the board adjourns?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but promotions to Major and above must be confirmed by Congress. That means CSAF, SECAF, SECDEF, must approve all of them. I don’t envision these people going through the list one name a time, but there is certainly room for politicization over hot button issues. I’ve heard of the list being held up for leverage over budgets, controversial people (i.e accused sexual assault), etc. Even with zero issues, it takes time for the bureaucracy to grind it up and spit it out. Most of the time is probably spent either sitting on someone’s desk or in some analysts’ hands trying to figure out what issue Congress is going to play “gotcha” on. 

We give our our senior leaders and AF a lot of grief sometimes, often with good cause. But, sometimes I think they are just as frustrated as us because the tendency to make easy things difficult starts at the highest levels of our government.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by frog

[pawnman]

4 hours ago, Shazaam said:

Could be totally wrong. But an O-6 who is a mentor looked at my surf without my knowledge. He never once asked how many awards have I won. Before my PCS, my former CC never said we need to have you win more awards to make O-5. I remember him saying being selected for a DO job might get me promoted. We all have to remember what the promotion boards value do change depending upon the climate of the AF right?

Looking at a SURF to determine a next job is one thing, but getting promoted is another.  Every PRF I've seen (granted, all changing with this two-line PRF in the future) included the number of awards won in that top "summary" line in some fashion.  Every OPR I've ever had included the number of awards (CGO, WSO, instructor, FLT/CC, etc) somewhere on it, usually in the rater's bottom line.

If you were on a promotion board and had two records that were comparable in every other way - similar strats, similar jobs, similar number of combat hours and/or people supervised...but one had a dozen awards over the whole career, and the other had no awards, which one are you picking for promotion?

I also advise all the young LTs going through the school house to write a 1206 every quarter.  At the major level, your commander should know you personally, at least in the flying community.  But at the LT level, your commander probably has less interaction with you.  Writing a 1206 every quarter puts your accomplishments in front of the boss four times a year, making it easier for him to write the bottom line on that OPR once a year.

[pawnman]

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

I completely understand your viewpoint, just offering an alternate COA.  Your highlighted section is accurate.  Imagine how useful it would be if you crushed out 1206s on others.  Again, I’m not throwing spears at you; I get your viewpoint and appreciate your candor.  

You will definitely get noticed by submitting awards on others.  Bosses notice a 100% increase in submissions generated by a single individual, and that attention doesn’t have the same potential to turn sour that self-promotion carries.  Just a thought.

Either way good luck and I hope you get promoted, cheers.

Like I said, I'll be happy to generate 1206s for others when I have anyone in my category that is in my shop/squadron.  In my IG job, I'm the only major and the only other FGO is my Lt Col boss, who actively encourages all of us to submit a 1206 for every category we can compete in - FGO, SNCO, NCO, and civilian.  If and when I move back to a squadron with multiple O-4s in it, and with CGOs that I can actually help by writing 1206s for, I will.

[celtic020]

2 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

Generally BPZ w/DP select rates hover between 25-33%. 

Have DGs? Been a DO (for BPZ to LtCol)? WIC? School in-res? SAASS? Been an Exec/ADC for a three star or higher? OTY Award wins at Wing or AF level? Does your PRF have a strat in the bottom line? Is it signed by a GO? — chances trend higher with those markers.

(FWIW I recently saw the PRF of the CJCS’s Exec for BPZ to Col... had a DP from the Chairman and didn’t get picked up early - so it’s not ALL about recent performance or who signed your report - the record has to be there and consistent - but it helps)

If not, then have a realistic expectation for your DP and we will see you IPZ.

Chuck

I’d put myself in the 30-40 percent range...which I think is a pretty decent shot at it.   

Have A DG, not multiple.  Have been an ADO, not a DO.   No WIC.  En route to CGSC in Res.  Been a Wing Exec for a Colonel, not a GO.  Have 2 MAJCOM CGO OTY Awds.   Bottom line of PRF is “1/3 BPZs....blah blah blah”.  PRF signed by Army O-6.   Have a couple good 1 of 100 something Wg and Jt O-4 strats.  I know I’m still below 50 percent but I think it will be close.  I wouldn’t be surprised either way.   Hey and IPZ I only gotta come up with 2 lines....how card can it be?  🙂 

[pawnman]

4 minutes ago, celtic020 said:

I’d put myself in the 30-40 percent range...which I think is a pretty decent shot at it.   

Have A DG, not multiple.  Have been an ADO, not a DO.   No WIC.  En route to CGSC in Res.  Been a Wing Exec for a Colonel, not a GO.  Have 2 MAJCOM CGO OTY Awds.   Bottom line of PRF is “1/3 BPZs....blah blah blah”.  PRF signed by Army O-6.   Have a couple good 1 of 100 something Wg and Jt O-4 strats.  I know I’m still below 50 percent but I think it will be close.  I wouldn’t be surprised either way.   Hey and IPZ I only gotta come up with 2 lines....how card can it be?  🙂 

Good luck.  That's a pretty good record.  Even if you don't make it this year, it looks like a pretty sure thing for next year's board.

[Shazaam]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Looking at a SURF to determine a next job is one thing, but getting promoted is another.  Every PRF I've seen (granted, all changing with this two-line PRF in the future) included the number of awards won in that top "summary" line in some fashion.  Every OPR I've ever had included the number of awards (CGO, WSO, instructor, FLT/CC, etc) somewhere on it, usually in the rater's bottom line.

If you were on a promotion board and had two records that were comparable in every other way - similar strats, similar jobs, similar number of combat hours and/or people supervised...but one had a dozen awards over the whole career, and the other had no awards, which one are you picking for promotion?

I also advise all the young LTs going through the school house to write a 1206 every quarter.  At the major level, your commander should know you personally, at least in the flying community.  But at the LT level, your commander probably has less interaction with you.  Writing a 1206 every quarter puts your accomplishments in front of the boss four times a year, making it easier for him to write the bottom line on that OPR once a year.

That Colonel who looked over my surf, never was that high octane guy. While deployed, he just flew and didn't do anything special from what I recalled. Didn't have hardly any strats for Major or Lt Col. That's what he told me anyway. 

[celtic020]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Good luck.  That's a pretty good record.  Even if you don't make it this year, it looks like a pretty sure thing for next year's board.

Thanks pawnman.   Same to you amigo.   

[Duck]

I wonder how the promotion board would know that. Maybe it's even a different level somewhere higher that's disagreeing with the 100% policy and trying to sift through records for DUI's, etc? I don't know. It just doesn't make sense that 100% promotion would need to take half a year or more to get approved. On that note though, why would it take months for any board to be approved once the board adjourns?

It was held up due to pushback from the SECDEF office if I remember correctly. We had a couple brothers on here effected where their names were pulled from both the “select” and “non-select” lists pending an appeal from the AF on why they should be promoted.


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[Breckey]

6 hours ago, Spaceballs said:

I wonder how the promotion board would know that. Maybe it's even a different level somewhere higher that's disagreeing with the 100% policy and trying to sift through records for DUI's, etc? I don't know. It just doesn't make sense that 100% promotion would need to take half a year or more to get approved. On that note though, why would it take months for any board to be approved once the board adjourns?

Ref my post from last year:

On 8/16/2018 at 5:16 PM, Breckey said:

So I was briefed on an interesting tidbit regarding the 09 Majors board today. Apparently there is a new (~5 Jul 18) congressional report that is required to be run by the services IG concerning officer eligibility for promotion. This system was already in place for O-6+, however not for the lower ranks. Anybody that is up for promotion that has had a "public" negative indicator will be reviewed at a later time as was mentioned earlier. The main driver for this may have been some Missileers that were involved in the Malmstrom cheating scandal in 2014. Although their LORs were removed from their UIF in the intervening years, their records are being further scrutinized since they were involved in a very public scandal. Hopefully the process will be further vetted for the later year groups (10-11) that were also heavily involved. This new scrutiny caught many O-6 off guard as well.

 

[ExCONS]

Would this same thing be slowing down the USAFR O-4 results? It’s been sitting with OSD for over a month. 

[pawnman]

6 minutes ago, ExCONS said:

Would this same thing be slowing down the USAFR O-4 results? It’s been sitting with OSD for over a month. 

Yep.  That IG guidance now applies to all officer promotions, even the 100% ones.

[raimius]

Mypers shows the last update point on their timeline was at the USecAF office in late January.

 

... government efficiency at it's finest.

[BashiChuni]

17 hours ago, pawnman said:

 

I also advise all the young LTs going through the school house to write a 1206 every quarter.  At the major level, your commander should know you personally, at least in the flying community.  But at the LT level, your commander probably has less interaction with you.  Writing a 1206 every quarter puts your accomplishments in front of the boss four times a year, making it easier for him to write the bottom line on that OPR once a year.

I think that is horrible advice. Not a spear just my opinion. 

Shouldnt LTs going thru a school house focus on their tactical proficiency?

It speaks poorly of how we groom our officers that brand new LTs need to write their own awards every quarter. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by BashiChuni

[panchbarnes]

777  

Edited May 15, 2019 by panchbarnes

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

I think that is horrible advice. Not a spear just my opinion. 

Shouldnt LTs going thru a school house focus on their tactical proficiency?

It speaks poorly of how we groom our officers that brand new LTs need to write their own awards every quarter. 

Yes.  That 30 minutes every three months will really erode their tactical proficiency.
Again, this is why the support officers outperform flyers on promotion boards.  Because flyers scoff the things that promotion boards value.  Those LTs writing 1206s are 1. getting some form of recognition from their boss every quarter and 2. learning to write 1206s so that when they are the FLT/CC or ADO, they can polish their subordinates' 1206s to a fine glow.  We've already seen one person advocating for submitting others for awards...I don't know about y'all, but I haven't often seen someone submit a 1206 for a person outside their chain of command.
Finally, I'll say it again...you're also screwing over your SQ/CCE, who has to submit these awards to the SQ/CC and the OG/CC by a certain date, by just refusing to write them.  If everyone in the squadron thought the way you guys do, it wouldn't be a refreshing experience for the SQ/CC.  He'd be embarrassed at every OG staff meeting. 

"Not one of your people was good enough to submit for an award this quarter?  Not a single one?  What kind of squadron are you running over there?"

[MCO]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Yes.  That 30 minutes every three months will really erode their tactical proficiency.
Again, this is why the support officers outperform flyers on promotion boards.  Because flyers scoff the things that promotion boards value.  Those LTs writing 1206s are 1. getting some form of recognition from their boss every quarter and 2. learning to write 1206s so that when they are the FLT/CC or ADO, they can polish their subordinates' 1206s to a fine glow.  We've already seen one person advocating for submitting others for awards...I don't know about y'all, but I haven't often seen someone submit a 1206 for a person outside their chain of command.
Finally, I'll say it again...you're also screwing over your SQ/CCE, who has to submit these awards to the SQ/CC and the OG/CC by a certain date, by just refusing to write them.  If everyone in the squadron thought the way you guys do, it wouldn't be a refreshing experience for the SQ/CC.  He'd be embarrassed at every OG staff meeting. 

"Not one of your people was good enough to submit for an award this quarter?  Not a single one?  What kind of squadron are you running over there?"

I think you make some decent points, but I can't agree with you here. In my last 2 squadrons the commander and the flight commanders sat in a room once a quarter for an hour or less, hashed out who had done what, decided on the best and then tagged that persons flight commander to write a 1206. Never had to explain why the squadron didn't submit a 1206, and no one ever put themselves in for an award. It also gave the commander some insight on what the younger guys were up too.

[pawnman]

17 minutes ago, MCO said:

I think you make some decent points, but I can't agree with you here. In my last 2 squadrons the commander and the flight commanders sat in a room once a quarter for an hour or less, hashed out who had done what, decided on the best and then tagged that persons flight commander to write a 1206. Never had to explain why the squadron didn't submit a 1206, and no one ever put themselves in for an award. It also gave the commander some insight on what the younger guys were up too.

So, instead of using the 1206s to judge award winners, you decided the winners then wrote the 1206.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we complain about in the assignment and promotion system?

I'm also curious... Who wrote the Flt/CC awards if no one wrote their own?

Edited May 15, 2019 by pawnman

[raimius]

23 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So, instead of using the 1206s to judge award winners, you decided the winners then wrote the 1206.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we complain about in the assignment and promotion system?

I'm also curious... Who wrote the Flt/CC awards if no one wrote their own?

It may actually be the system working correctly.  Leadership sits down and discusses who deserves awards based on what their people did over the quarter/year, then documents it on paper.  That's got to be better than doling out awards based on who can write the most polished bullets ("you don't get awards, your 1206s get awards").

In units that did that, I usually saw the ADOs draft the 1206s for flt/ccs, and the DO or CC did the FGO 1206s.

[MCO]

53 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So, instead of using the 1206s to judge award winners, you decided the winners then wrote the 1206.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we complain about in the assignment and promotion system?

I'm also curious... Who wrote the Flt/CC awards if no one wrote their own?

Flight commanders didn’t win too often because they usually didn’t push themselves, so the commander, DO or other flight commanders would push them. If they won then they would help the ADO write it. Helping write your own because you were selected is a lot different than expecting half the squadron the write 1206s on themselves to help the exec.

And everyone has an opinion but I liked the system because of what Raimius said. Winning based on the paper and not what you actually did is a problem in my opinion. Writing the 1206 for the person that kicked ass and deserves it in order to let them compete at the next level is doing it right.

[pawnman]

Do your communities not have a Flt/CC OTQ award along with CGO, FGO, etc?

[BashiChuni]

11 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

777  

God damn thank you sir I got a casino trip end of the month 5% of my winnings coming your way

[Danger41]

38 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

God damn thank you sir I got a casino trip end of the month 5% of my winnings coming your way

Down voted for 777 maintenance.

And I started this, btw. You can at least throw a couple percent my way.