pawnman Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 52 minutes ago, HeloDude said: With fewer staff jobs being filled then they're going to go to those at the top. Are you saying that in the last 3 years not 1 B-1 WSO in the AF who was a senior Captain/junior Major got sent to a staff job without going to IDE first? That is almost exactly what I am saying. I can't speak for AF wide, but Dyess has not sent a single WSO to a staff job without going to school first for several years.
Disco_Nav963 Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 4 hours ago, pawnman said: That is almost exactly what I am saying. I can't speak for AF wide, but Dyess has not sent a single WSO to a staff job without going to school first for several years. I want to say that's straight up a Bomber Porch policy (i.e. I've seen it on their MyPers page or in a VML Webinar).
Chuck17 Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 18 hours ago, pawnman said: That is almost exactly what I am saying. I can't speak for AF wide, but Dyess has not sent a single WSO to a staff job without going to school first for several years. Not to worry, with the BOne on it’s ass there will be plenty of staff jobs for those dudes soon. Problem solved. Chuck 1
pawnman Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Chuck17 said: Not to worry, with the BOne on it’s ass there will be plenty of staff jobs for those dudes soon. Problem solved. Chuck As always, my timing is impeccable. 1
Bergman Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 10:12 PM, Right Seat Driver said: Devil's advocate, not every non-flyer deserves to be promoted. With that being said, when the promotion rates for rated dudes are 6.9% less than the non-flyer's it sends a message to the rated force. The Air Force is in the business of projecting power and blowing shit up through airpower. I can't speak for promotion rates in the Army, but I am certain my few Army Infantry buddies would have the same complaints if the combat arms branches in the Army promoted at lower rates than the non-combat arms branches. On 7/11/2019 at 8:16 PM, chili said: What? See RSD’s reply above. i don’t believe everyone should get promoted just because they are a pilot, but it speaks volumes that pilots aren’t getting promoted at the highest rate if they so desperately need them, especially experienced pilots. 1
bennynova Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 It’s been shown that a pilots job can be done by an Enlisted guy in a GCS. Technology is a bitch
pawnman Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, bennynova said: It’s been shown that a pilots job can be done by an Enlisted guy in a GCS. Technology is a bitch I'll believe it when they start putting them in cockpits instead of shipping containers. 1
FLEA Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 1 hour ago, pawnman said: I'll believe it when they start putting them in cockpits instead of shipping containers. You got it backwards man. They are putting the cockpits in the shipping containers. 1
panchbarnes Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, pawnman said: I'll believe it when they start putting them in cockpits instead of shipping containers. NVM, I have faulty memory. Edited July 27, 2019 by panchbarnes Faulty Memory
bennynova Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Kids are better at video games anyhow. It makes sense
drewpey Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 10:43 AM, pawnman said: As promised, here's a PRF that will NOT get you promoted. I have not talked to AFPC or the WG/CC yet, so further analysis pending. Looking at your PRF I am even more frustrated with this system, if that's possible. In the spirit of open-kimono, here is my PRF. I made it, but was firmly in the "Grey". I was told my my WG/CC to be "cautiously optimistic", so I had been sweating it quite a bit. The past few years I thought things were good, and was always told not to worry, but after taking the bonus and shortly thereafter being told the above, I was a bit pissed because I would have made different life choices had I seen the writing on the wall earlier. If the USAF doesn't like my work, that's fine I can find someone else to pay me money doing something that doesn't continually fuck me and my family over. Needless to say despite making it the entire experience and past year has honestly been a bit jading on me. Here is the 1-star feedback on my entire record when I asked for clarification on my "P" and shitty push line: Early OPRs are mediocre--to include not being stratted on my first OPR post-grad USAFWS which led him to ask if I had any disciplinary issues then (I did not) Lacked any strats on early OPRs I went from sq to gp, to sq and back to gp, not showing good progression (due to "AF needs") At one point my strat actually went downhill a few %...one year X/XX, next year top XX% I have too many functional strats that are "all throwaways the board will likely dismiss" (VMs, EWOs, branch chief, etc) Strats were often strange coming from rater (Capt strat from rating Capt, Strat by a DO as a Maj, Strat by a GS-12 as a Maj, etc) Not enough awards of any kind Not having a MSM going into IPZ as a major is unfortunate Was called out for "speeding" on job titles, said it would raise eyebrows with the board I had too many OPRs not in a "W" prefix Overall he said I was a late bloomer, and the board will have to square that with my poor early record, and hopefully my recent performance resonates with them. He said that it likely is a 50/50 chance I'm not here to pour salt on any wounds. In comparing our PRFs in many ways yours is stronger than mine, particularly in the push. I think it goes to show how finicky things can get in the "grey". Hopefully all this helps someone recognize any potential weaknesses in their own records or where they actually stand in the eyes of the USAF, and can make life decisions accordingly. Good luck next year everyone. 1
pawnman Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 Looks like you have a lot more rank strats than I do. I was also told 50/50 chance. And despite being in a wing staff job, my SURF shows me going SQ to GP back to SQ, because my job is coded as API-0. As a result, I'm occupying a spot in a flying squadron manning doc, even though I'm working in the IG office.
SFG Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 🤦♂️ It looks like you both did everything the AF asked you to do and did well at it. One would think that if all strats represent the top 73% or so one would get promoted, much less top 50%, top 25%, or better. Two-line PRF and new OPR system can’t come fast enough, but we can only hope that improves things... PFM.
pbar Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) On 7/24/2019 at 5:49 PM, pawnman said: Had lunch with the deputy OG today... Turns out Dyess has not promoted a WSO in the last four years. Fun times. Weird. In my year group in the Bone, we got 9-10 IDE in-res slots and out of those, 8 were WSOs (myself included, though how I got one is beyond me). Once again, timing is EVERYTHING. Edited July 30, 2019 by pbar
pawnman Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, pbar said: Weird. In my year group in the Bone, we got 9-10 IDE in-res slots and out of those, 8 were WSOs (myself included, though how I got one is beyond me). When was that? My year group had two people in it for the whole base, both B-1 guys... Me and a pilot. Up north was similarly thin.
Danger41 Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 Is there anyone that’s a 2BPZ type that can post their PRF so we can compare wtf the Bobs at corporate want?
Jetpilot Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 9 hours ago, Danger41 said: Is there anyone that’s a 2BPZ type that can post their PRF so we can compare wtf the Bobs at corporate want? Spoiler alert...it will sound the same as someone who makes it IPZ except the bottom line will have a #1 strat from either a WG/CC or above. Pathways to achieve this feat are 1. be a wing exec 2. be an aide/exec for a flag officer (preferably as a captain) 3. work a staff gig for a flag officer (again preferably as a captain). Better yet, make sure you check the box on just one flying assignment to ensure you have enough time to do one of the above and then PCS to a fellowship program to ensure your O-5 PRF is written as a CGO. This way the board can see how fantastic of a CGO you are without muddying the waters with FGO performance. 4
bennynova Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Jetpilot said: Spoiler alert...it will sound the same as someone who makes it IPZ except the bottom line will have a #1 strat from either a WG/CC or above. Pathways to achieve this feat are 1. be a wing exec 2. be an aide/exec for a flag officer (preferably as a captain) 3. work a staff gig for a flag officer (again preferably as a captain). Better yet, make sure you check the box on just one flying assignment to ensure you have enough time to do one of the above and then PCS to a fellowship program to ensure your O-5 PRF is written as a CGO. This way the board can see how fantastic of a CGO you are without muddying the waters with FGO performance. Yup your record as a Lt and capt seem to matter a whole lot more than they should....
pawnman Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 39 minutes ago, bennynova said: Yup your record as a Lt and capt seem to matter a whole lot more than they should.... "Are you ready to perform in the next grade? Let's go back 8 years to your SOS performance and find out" 4 4 1 2
dream big Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 Well hopefully now that they eliminated “school selects” off the board; they stop using early CGO performance to determine HPO status, cautiously optimistic rated performance boards will also shift what we value in promotions. Question for the grey beards, how much do CGO strats matter for an 0-5 board traditionally? I.e 1-2 average CGO strats, tons of IP/combat time, no CGO awards, late WIC grad and then a ton of major strats with Group and Wing level jobs? Asking for a friend..!
Jetpilot Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 34 minutes ago, pawnman said: "Are you ready to perform in the next grade? Let's go back 8 years to your SOS performance and find out" I am starting to lose track how many times I have now seen officers who have only been stratified at the CGO level i.e. their O-5 PRFs were written when they were senior captains, surpass above average performing FGOs. This is the most frustrating part of the whole promotion process. FGO and CGO have totally different levels of expectations. This is what makes me believe the only real thing the board looks at is the bottomline strat and where it came from. They could not care less about an officer's upbringing. It also makes me extremely cynical about the new promotion system. Why would it be any different if there are only two lines. Certainly since strats and DPs still exist on the PRF, what will drive senior raters to more closely examine an officer's record? Its emblematic of our culture where 15 second news clips suffice for being "well informed". My solution would be to scrap the PRF system altogether. Let the full record speak for itself. 1 1
GKinnear Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 19 minutes ago, dream big said: Asking for a friend..! DP = 99.9% promoted P = ~50% promoted Doesn't matter what else is on there, P vs DP is the biggest discriminator. No matter what anyone says, it's all a guess how "strong" a P PRF is. Most O's (aircrew anyway) are well above average and Big Blue magnifies the smallest difference to be able to draw a cut line somewhere. It sucks that PRFs and OPRs are have unwritten rules only the select few are allowed to know, but honestly most non-military family, friends, future employers won't know and don't care. From presonal experience, don't get your ego wrapped up in the PRF and the board results. It doesn't define who you are as a person. 2
bennynova Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it. Here is what an HPO looks like DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101) #9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC) #5/250 Capts (Wg/CC) #1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC) #5/180 Majs (Wg/CC) #1/150 Majs (Wg/CC) #1/220 Majs (Wg/CC #1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP
pawnman Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 6 hours ago, dream big said: Well hopefully now that they eliminated “school selects” off the board; they stop using early CGO performance to determine HPO status, cautiously optimistic rated performance boards will also shift what we value in promotions. Question for the grey beards, how much do CGO strats matter for an 0-5 board traditionally? I.e 1-2 average CGO strats, tons of IP/combat time, no CGO awards, late WIC grad and then a ton of major strats with Group and Wing level jobs? Asking for a friend..! My PRF is right up there. One CGO strat, tons of instructor/evaluator strats, lots of combat and instructor time, and some major/FGO strats in the last three years... Not promoted. I wish your friend luck. Maybe breaking the LAF into multiple categories will help.
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