Promotion and PRF Information

[FltDoc]

4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

PSDM is out. 5 year window starts at when you would be IPZ. 06 is the youngest year group for the May 20 board.


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I think once all the changes have normalized, socialized, or what have you, this will be mostly a non-issue.

In the meantime, it's transition issues that will be the most interesting.

Who will get opportunities, someone with a BTZ on the record or someone just a year behind but with an identical record otherwise without?  School, jobs, and similar opportunities tend to snowball.  With momentum comes more momentum and this will clearly change the record of those on either side of this line. 

Statistically, there are very few, but for high level jobs, it's most of those being selected.  Will there be a few year gap with haves and have-nots?

[jrizzell]

All of these changes are great ideas, and overdue. At the end of the day it’s still going to come down to DP or P. If you have one, you’re pretty much set. If you don’t, it’s a coin flip. How these choose to allocate and distribute those designations will be the real test of the “fairness” of the new system.

[Homestar]

Was 2006 “IPZ” this year?

[ThreeHoler]

Was 2006 “IPZ” this year?

Yes. 2008 is formerly 2BPZ.

[panchbarnes]

Random thoughts...

The HPOs will now be picked up 1st and 2nd looks (effectively BTZs).  3rd looks will be the middle of the road guys/gals.  I want to say this new timeline is similar to Army's O5 IPZs.

5th look won't matter for most people.  Getting picked up at 18 yrs TIS means you have to serve past 20 get the O5 retirement.  Is the O4/O5 retirement differential worth it?  You definitely won't be eligible for leadership and future advancement opportunities at 18/19 yrs TIS.  I suppose people might enjoy Lt Col (ret) in the sig block.

This will probably help alleviate the manning problem in the short term because the fence sitters now need to delay their decision and stick around a little longer (false hope?) and there probably is no more involuntary separation pay.

"Y'all got any more of them strats?" --- davechappellememe.jpg

[baller06]

Slightly related, 06 year group traditional reservist that doesn’t have any desire to do ACSC or make O-5:

Can I make it to sanctuary now without needing to be granted continuation? My primary AFSC is 11M but I am not in a flying duty so I’m not sure if it is as “automatic” as if I were actively flying.


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[ExCONS]

5 hours ago, baller06 said:

Slightly related, 06 year group traditional reservist that doesn’t have any desire to do ACSC or make O-5:

Can I make it to sanctuary now without needing to be granted continuation? My primary AFSC is 11M but I am not in a flying duty so I’m not sure if it is as “automatic” as if I were actively flying.


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The key factor that I have seen is whether you have a break in service between AD and Reserve time.  No break in service or bad years, you’re probably good to go. Any breaks, you usually need to make O-5 to get past 20 years of commissioned time and get 20 good years. 

[baller06]

Thanks ExCONS, no break in service and I’ll definitely make sure I get 6 and a half more good years!


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[Bigred]

DP allocation attachment is floating around now for the upcoming O-5 board (at least for USAFE). I'm hearing that it's a 90% promotion opportunity in the LAF-A (pilot/spec war) category. The other categories are between 85-90%.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bigred

[ThreeHoler]

So you’re saying there’s a chance...


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[Bigred]

2 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

So you’re saying there’s a chance...


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I gotta imagine there’s enough turds in the punch bowl with uif or prt failures that’ll make up that 10%.

So yeah, there may be a chance.

[2Exy]

I was able to pull a strat if you want to call it that after being passed over. I think I was ranked #2/6 in the TRG because I have no desire to do ACSC and I've yet to do it via correspondence. I am in a small Wing so it is a weak strat along with a Wing FGOQ award on my most recent OPR. I wrote in the push line I have "extraordinary emotional intelligence and Sq/CC ASAP." Surprised the Wing king didn't delete it. I will need a strat from Mother Teresa to get promoted APZ. 

Any truth to special duty guys/gals with select DAFSCs receiving a very hard look for promotion? A major picked up for school mentioned this during an all call with the TRG/CC. I was like I will believe it, when I see it.

Edited January 11, 2020 by 2Exy

[drewpey]

1 hour ago, 2Exy said:

I have no desire to do ACSC and I've yet to do it via correspondence.

This is pretty much a SIE for promotions in todays Air Force, even IPZ...if you are APZ with no PME thats a clean kill and you arent going to make it. The rules of the game are well known, and playing against them produces predictable results. Read the promotion statistics if you dont believe me. I wish you luck.

Edited January 11, 2020 by drewpey

[frog]

22 minutes ago, drewpey said:

This is pretty much a SIE for promotions in todays Air Force, even IPZ...if you are APZ with no PME thats a clean kill and you arent going to make it. The rules of the game are well known, and playing against them produces predictable results. Read the promotion statistics if you dont believe me. I wish you luck.

This. Like it or not, DOD has decided that it wants O-5s to have a baseline background in national security issues beyond your tactical expertise, and that background is supposedly provided through IDE. No one in the AF can or will change this fact. The effectiveness of forcing O-4s to do this online around their work/family schedules is an entirely different (and worthwhile) conversation.

[2Exy]

4 hours ago, drewpey said:

This is pretty much a SIE for promotions in todays Air Force, even IPZ...if you are APZ with no PME thats a clean kill and you arent going to make it. The rules of the game are well known, and playing against them produces predictable results. Read the promotion statistics if you dont believe me. I wish you luck.

I completely agree with you bro. I have to give DV tours to Wing CCs and MAJCOM/CCs when my boss is out. One O-6 just randomly asked me about my special duty and promotion out of the blue. He told me ACSC shouldn't matter at all in the equation for promotion per the CSAF. I told him I completely understand I am playing with fire and you have to check the box in order to be promoted.

I definitely don't walk on water because I don't have a single Wing strat. I am prior enlisted with 19 years of service so I hit sanctuary. I still managed to accomplish the following as a major without touching ACSC:

- DG

- #3/42 Sq | #1/73 - IQT (OPR) 

- #2/12 Sq | #10/53 Gp |  USAFCENT Safety Award (OPR)

- #1/12 Sq | #8/53 Gp (OPR)

- #2/6 Gp | Wing FGOQ (special duty OPR).

Edited January 11, 2020 by 2Exy

[drewpey]

3 hours ago, 2Exy said:

 He told me ACSC shouldn't matter at all in the equation for promotion per the CSAF.

Then you should try and get a job working directly for that O6. The endemic problem is that CSAF has great ideas and makes good progress fixing things, but ultimately its his plethora of O6s and O7s between you and him interpreting guidance how they see fit.

For example the CSAF constantly rails that squadron commanders should be empowered by GP/WG commanders to run their organizations how they see fit...but there is no shortage of micromanaging leaders out there claiming to be servant leaders. Most of these dudes were DG at one or more PME and they loved the taste of that kool aid. You arent going to thumb your nose at PME and have it not affect your ranking.

Sounds like you are set being able to punch retiring as a Major. I'd take the money and run vs extending commitment, risking a shitty PCS/365 to get the O5 retirement. The AF has already indirectly told you they dont value your work, and regardless of your current job you'll find better employment outside with a much better QOL. Unless you plan to become a general or are having a shit ton of fun...staying past 20 doesnt make a lot of sense in most cases. Again I wish you luck.

[pawnman]

22 hours ago, Bigred said:

I gotta imagine there’s enough turds in the punch bowl with uif or prt failures that’ll make up that 10%.

So yeah, there may be a chance.

I hope you're right.  I thought the same thing for IPZ... No way I was in the bottom 25% of the Air Force, right?  Turns out I was, in fact, in the bottom 25%, with no UIF, no failed PT tests, ACSC done in correspondence before my more high-power peers even left for school in residence.

But I was never able to achieve escape velocity from my community prior to the board, and when I went to the FTU there was no plan for deliberate development.  So I went from shop chief and Flt/CC in my ops until to Flt/CC and shop chief in the FTU.

[Blue]

1 hour ago, drewpey said:

The endemic problem is that CSAF has great ideas and makes good progress fixing things, but ultimately its his plethora of O6s and O7s between you and him interpreting guidance how they see fit.

For example the CSAF constantly rails that squadron commanders should be empowered by GP/WG commanders to run their organizations how they see fit...but there is no shortage of micromanaging leaders out there claiming to be servant leaders. 

The "Frozen Middle" is real.

https://othjournal.com/2018/12/17/forget-the-frozen-middle-this-mysterious-layer-of-bureaucracy-is-not-an-insurmountable-obstacle-to-innovation-even-if-it-did-exist/

 

Quote

In the business world, the frozen middle captures the idea that top executives want innovative ideas and lower level employees have those ideas, but somewhere in between those ideas are rejected by a layer of overly conservative mid-level managers. 

 

[2Exy]

4 hours ago, drewpey said:

Then you should try and get a job working directly for that O6. The endemic problem is that CSAF has great ideas and makes good progress fixing things, but ultimately its his plethora of O6s and O7s between you and him interpreting guidance how they see fit.

For example the CSAF constantly rails that squadron commanders should be empowered by GP/WG commanders to run their organizations how they see fit...but there is no shortage of micromanaging leaders out there claiming to be servant leaders. Most of these dudes were DG at one or more PME and they loved the taste of that kool aid. You arent going to thumb your nose at PME and have it not affect your ranking.

Sounds like you are set being able to punch retiring as a Major. I'd take the money and run vs extending commitment, risking a shitty PCS/365 to get the O5 retirement. The AF has already indirectly told you they dont value your work, and regardless of your current job you'll find better employment outside with a much better QOL. Unless you plan to become a general or are having a shit ton of fun...staying past 20 doesnt make a lot of sense in most cases. Again I wish you luck.

AFPC already told me I'm ineligible for any short tours. I knocked out two short tours as a very young captain. My long tour in Korea as a SrA is noted on my officer record as well. As a matter of fact, remember the 100% chance for promotion to major? A captain that works for me found out he made major in August and got hit with a 365. He leaves this assignment in May for a 365. Don't take the devils rank!

Last rant: We have a school select who just arrived and will be leaving soon for school. He bragged about being here 2 months and winning FGOQ. Beat out a guy who just isn't relatable to his Airmen. The school guy said his boss told him to put in for the quarterly. Since he won, I heard him say he definitely put in for an annual too. You wonder where douchebag CCs are made and why awards don't mean you're necessarily a good leader. This! 

Any truth to special duty guys/gals with select DAFSCs receiving a very hard look for promotion?

Edited January 11, 2020 by 2Exy

[IDALPHA]

ACSC in correspondence is a waste of time. Basing selection for promotion on that single item is ignorant. I have NEVER talked to someone my senior that disagrees with this. (At least in a closed door conversation) But are any of you guys actually surprised at this? I’m not. 

[2Exy]

8 hours ago, IDALPHA said:

ACSC in correspondence is a waste of time. Basing selection for promotion on that single item is ignorant. I have NEVER talked to someone my senior that disagrees with this. (At least in a closed door conversation) But are any of you guys actually surprised at this? I’m not. 

I thought promotions are now supposed to be more "performance based?" So where does ACSC fall into that equation? 

12 hours ago, pawnman said:

I hope you're right.  I thought the same thing for IPZ... No way I was in the bottom 25% of the Air Force, right?  Turns out I was, in fact, in the bottom 25%, with no UIF, no failed PT tests, ACSC done in correspondence before my more high-power peers even left for school in residence.

But I was never able to achieve escape velocity from my community prior to the board, and when I went to the FTU there was no plan for deliberate development.  So I went from shop chief and Flt/CC in my ops until to Flt/CC and shop chief in the FTU.

Just stay positive bro. Sounds like you were banking on promotion. Did you do a feedback with AFPC? I didn't do a feedback session, but I wonder if you did and found it "helpful?" 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by 2Exy

[SurelySerious]

[pawnman]

19 hours ago, 2Exy said:

I thought promotions are now supposed to be more "performance based?" So where does ACSC fall into that equation? 

Just stay positive bro. Sounds like you were banking on promotion. Did you do a feedback with AFPC? I didn't do a feedback session, but I wonder if you did and found it "helpful?" 

 

Banking may be a strong word.  I just wish I hadn't been as blindsided by it.  I had a whole series of commanders telling me how great I was, that I was integral to the mission, that I had improved the unit, that I was doing great work...then I got passed over.  So either the boards were fucked up, or my commanders lacked the balls to actually tell me where I stood early enough to make a difference.

I did do the feedback with AFPC.  Basically worthless, because they told me all the things I already knew:

1.  Didn't get a DP, so I was already at a disadvantage compared to the majority meeting the board.

2.  Not enough (read - zero) career broadening.  Never got out of a bomb wing, so again at a disadvantage compared to people who went to a staff/ALO/non-flying job.  Not that I didn't try...I applied for three of those AFPC mail robot things, including the one to be a finance officer, but I couldn't get released by my functional to do any of them.

3. Limited supervision time.  As a rated officer in a flying squadron, I had at most 6 people I rated on at any given point.  MX, LRS, SFS, etc officers are supervising 200+ airmen at the same time in their career.

4.  Everything was flying.  The board doesn't want 4 deployments and 2000 combat hours.  They want one deployment, enough sorties to get one Air Medal, then they want you to move on to the next job.

5.  Not enough Tier 1 strats.  A lot of #x/xx shop chief, #y/yy flight commanders, but not enough early #x/xx captains.

 

[ThreeHoler]

Don’t feed the troll.


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[pawnman]

Sorry, not my intent.  But hopefully that information will help the young to mid-level captains who still have time to make a course correction.