Promotion and PRF Information

[KWings06j]

8 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

5 IPZ hasn’t started yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

5 hours ago, Slow-Smooth-Fast said:

 

The AF still has to follow federal law (DOPMA), which stipulates the amount of looks officers get.  I'm guessing this is part of the reason why the 5 IPZ idea hasn't been implemented.

 

There is a pseudo 5-year now in that you can opt out of IPZ consideration up to 3 times for specific circumstances. Once you complete your IPZ look however you can't Opt Out of your APZ look. Not the "5 year IPZ window" they promised but it may be useful for some people. Data on MyPers.

 

The ‘Opt Out’ authority allows officers in the grade of captain through lieutenant colonel to request to opt out of promotion consideration to the next higher grade for one or more of the following reasons:

• To allow an officer to complete a broadening assignment; or
• To allow an officer to complete a Department of the Air Force-funded resident graduate-level education program (e.g. Masters or PhD); or
• To allow an officer to complete a career progression requirement, the accomplishment of which has been delayed by either a broadening assignment, a Department of the Air Force-funded resident graduate-level education program, or crossflow to a new career field; or
• To allow an officer to complete another assignment of significant value to the Department of the Air Force

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by KWings06j

[Bigred]

2 hours ago, Swizzle said:

This, BigRed, and AF doesn't understand all the implications yet, the 5 yr look is NOT yet mandatory but recommended legally I believe (prob. to get the glacier moving that way before legally mandatory)

Learning has occurred, I misunderstood it to mean the NDAA mandated the 5 years. 

[14N Guy]

Quick update; 1550 day before official release and I still have not received official notification of my non-selection. Maybe tomorrow morning?

[celtic020]

44 minutes ago, 14N Guy said:

Quick update; 1550 day before official release and I still have not received official notification of my non-selection. Maybe tomorrow morning?

Doubtful for tomorrow morning.  I'd expect a call today/tonight.  If you do somehow make it to public release without official notification, I'd say that's a positive sign for your chances.  It's a pretty big breach of etiquette to let a non-select see the results without prior notification he/she didn't make it.  Good luck man 

[14N Guy]

1 hour ago, celtic020 said:

Doubtful for tomorrow morning.  I'd expect a call today/tonight.  If you do somehow make it to public release without official notification, I'd say that's a positive sign for your chances.  It's a pretty big breach of etiquette to let a non-select see the results without prior notification he/she didn't make it.  Good luck man 

I found out on Friday through unofficial channels that I was not selected. It is what it is, unfortunately.

[pawnman]

On 6/21/2021 at 9:30 AM, bennynova said:

If the notification period is 18-22 June, then in my experience, the LATER you are notified, the more likely you are to be a NO GO for promotion.

Likewise, a phone call out of the blue vs a scheduled meeting.    If you are scheduled a meeting, the more likely you are a NO GO.

 

that being said, i am scheduled for a meeting on Tuesday!  I also already know through back channels that I am a NON-promote

 

Received a P on overall recommendation

Bottom Line of 2-line PRF:  “#2/3 I/APZ; #2/11 Majs--beyond ready for Lt Col; Def Promote (verbiage)”

Last 7 OPRs:

#1/8 CGOs, (Flt/CC)

#1/4 USAF Majs, Deployed OSD SES; #6/26 Majs (Gp/CC)

#24/144 Majs (Wg/CC)

#7/153 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/2 Majs (Div/CC)

#3/7 Majs (SES)

#2/10 Majs (SES)

--11x FOGQ and 2x FGOYs

zero negative indicators ever (pt, DUI, anything)

 

I'm not sure what they are looking for strat wise.  even when they have changed all stratifications to exclude the 2nd and 3rd tier strats, i don't even have any of those; i thought i'd be "good to go".

 

 

 

 

Jesus, bro...your strats are better than mine when I got picked up 1 APZ.  If you're ever in my area, drinks are on me.

[ThreeHoler]

I found out on Friday through unofficial channels that I was not selected. It is what it is, unfortunately.

You’re more than 2x passed over, right? Many times people don’t care to notify you because they figure you already know you didn’t make it.

[14N Guy]

13 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

You’re more than 2x passed over, right? Many times people don’t care to notify you because they figure you already know you didn’t make it.

 

Correct. He also went out of his way to get me a DP this time. I’m not upset, or anything, I’m just raising my eyebrow a little bit.

[dream big]

6 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

You’re more than 2x passed over, right? Many times people don’t care to notify you because they figure you already know you didn’t make it.

 

Still, doesn’t matter.  It’s common etiquette for leadership to notify non selects, usually via 1-on-1 meeting, another failure of basic leadership in 14N Guy’s world. 

[jrizzell]

Still, doesn’t matter.  It’s common etiquette for leadership to notify non selects, usually via 1-on-1 meeting, another failure of basic leadership in 14N Guy’s world. 

After my 1 APZ non-selection board, I never had another Commander tell me whether or not I got selected. The difference is that he had a DP, statistically 14N should have had a legitimate shot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[14N Guy]

Promotion statistics posted:

 

Competitive Category	CONS	IPZ	% SEL	CONS	APZ SEL	% SEL
OPERATIONS	605	480	79.3	589	35	5.9
PILOT	420	337	80.2	361	26	7.2
NAVIGATOR	130	103	79.2	172	8	4.7
AIR BATTLE MANAGER	55	40	72.7	56	1	1.8
NONRATED OPS	178	129	72.5	235	19	8.1
MISSION SUPPORT	479	380	79.3	431	32	7.4

[BKANO]

When does the official list drop again? 

[14N Guy]

10 minutes ago, BKANO said:

When does the official list drop again? 

according to my.af.mil, at 0900 CST.

[Bender]

Promotion statistics posted:
 

Competitive Category	CONS	IPZ	% SEL	CONS	APZ SEL	% SEL
OPERATIONS	605	480	79.3	589	35	5.9
PILOT	420	337	80.2	361	26	7.2
NAVIGATOR	130	103	79.2	172	8	4.7
AIR BATTLE MANAGER	55	40	72.7	56	1	1.8
NONRATED OPS	178	129	72.5	235	19	8.1
MISSION SUPPORT	479	380	79.3	431	32	7.4

Copy. Laze the building, not the people. I can do that. Laser on…do your thing.

CSV,
~Bendy


Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network mobile app

[pawnman]

On 6/23/2021 at 8:20 AM, 14N Guy said:

Promotion statistics posted:

 

Competitive Category	CONS	IPZ	% SEL	CONS	APZ SEL	% SEL
OPERATIONS	605	480	79.3	589	35	5.9
PILOT	420	337	80.2	361	26	7.2
NAVIGATOR	130	103	79.2	172	8	4.7
AIR BATTLE MANAGER	55	40	72.7	56	1	1.8
NONRATED OPS	178	129	72.5	235	19	8.1
MISSION SUPPORT	479	380	79.3	431	32	7.4

Are they planning to release the stats broken down by the actual categories?

LAF - A (Air Ops and Special Warfare)

LAF - C (Combat Support)

LAF - F (Force Modernization)

LAF - I (Information Warfare)

LAF - N (Nuclear and Missile Ops)

LAF - S (Space Operations...or is this going away with the Space Force?)

I continue to be shocked and dismayed by folks who bust their ass, get a DP, and then get passed over.  At that point...why bother even giving the senior rater DPs to hand out?  Just send all the records.  No point in the PRF if the board isn't going to listen.

 

[CaptainMorgan]

Are they planning to release the stats broken down by the actual categories?

LAF - A (Air Ops and Special Warfare)
LAF - C (Combat Support)
LAF - F (Force Modernization)
LAF - I (Information Warfare)
LAF - N (Nuclear and Missile Ops)
LAF - S (Space Operations...or is this going away with the Space Force?)
I continue to be shocked and dismayed by folks who bust their ass, get a DP, and then get passed over.  At that point...why bother even giving the senior rater DPs to hand out?  Just send all the records.  No point in the PRF if the board isn't going to listen.
 

They’re on stars-demog. You can find it by searching on mypers. APZ got royally screwed this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jrizzell]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

They’re on stars-demog. You can find it by searching on mypers. APZ got royally screwed this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's the APZ DP promotion Rates the last few years.

2015: 83.8%

2016: 100%

2017: 96%

2018: 91.7%

2019: 91.4%

2020: 91.3%

2021: 66.7%

For whatever reason, this board was significantly rougher for those individuals. That f'ing sucks.

Edited June 24, 2021 by jrizzell
grammar

[pawnman]

22 minutes ago, jrizzell said:

Here's the APZ DP promotion Rates the last few years.

2015: 83.8%

2016: 100%

2017: 96%

2018: 91.7%

2019: 91.4%

2020: 91.3%

2021: 66.7%

For whatever reason, this board was significantly rougher for those individuals. That ing sucks.

Good Lord...seems like this is going exactly the opposite direction that the Air Force is advertising with "year group agnostic" promotions.

[Champ Kind]

Here's the APZ DP promotion Rates the last few years.
2015: 83.8%
2016: 100%
2017: 96%
2018: 91.7%
2019: 91.4%
2020: 91.3%
2021: 66.7%
For whatever reason, this board was significantly rougher for those individuals. That f'ing sucks.

Is that the full story? Pretty sure APZ rates overall have gone up in recent years.

Agree that it is a shame that boards are apparently disregarding a senior rater’s DP promotion recommendation, especially when they only have so many allocated and them giving it to an APZ was one less available for an IPZ.

[CaptainMorgan]

Is that the full story? Pretty sure APZ rates overall have gone up in recent years.

Agree that it is a shame that boards are apparently disregarding a senior rater’s DP promotion recommendation, especially when they only have so many allocated and them giving it to an APZ was one less available for an IPZ.

‘07 YG missed their 1BPZ opportunity, so that probably hurt APZ chances this year. Next year, you’re going to have a YG that never got 2 or 1BPZ looks, so I would expect APZ numbers to drop to a new norm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jrizzell]

 

Is that the full story? Pretty sure APZ rates overall have gone up in recent years.

Agree that it is a shame that boards are apparently disregarding a senior rater’s DP promotion recommendation, especially when they only have so many allocated and them giving it to an APZ was one less available for an IPZ.
 

I downloaded the Excel sheets from the Stars-Demog site (via MyPers direction). The numbers I posted are directly from that source. 
And after looking at the 2021 data the LAF-A APZ DP rate was even lower at 54.5%
This year was certainty a huge drop from the past.

[panchbarnes]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

‘07 YG missed their 1BPZ opportunity, so that probably hurt APZ chances this year. Next year, you’re going to have a YG that never got 2 or 1BPZ looks, so I would expect APZ numbers to drop to a new norm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think this is a logical explanation.  I think Big Blue is trying match Big Army's O5/O6 promotion timeline hence the 5 looks and no BPZs.  The transition period (starting this last board) is going to be painful until things "normalize".  The 1st look is now really 2BPZ, and 2nd look is 1BPZ, 3rd look is IPZ (~16 yr TIS).  So starting this year they need to ensure the golden children are promoted 1st look along with the regular people.  Everything comes down to promotion timeline.

[CaptainMorgan]

Maybe this will work for the rest of the AF, but for pilots that have a lucrative job without the BS just waiting for them, delaying promotion isn’t going to help retention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jazzdude]

Maybe this will work for the rest of the AF, but for pilots that have a lucrative job without the BS just waiting for them, delaying promotion isn’t going to help retention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does anyone that just wants to fly the line really care about the rank, or just the extra pay that comes with the (Lt Col) rank? Better flight pay or bonus options could make up the pay difference, and that's where the focus should be, particularly since the number of O-5s the AF can have is limited.

Though I guess the problem is that the AF isn't going to increase pilot pay (through flight pay or a pro pay), and the bonus has gotten worse and probably will continue on that path. Especially since 11M are now "100% manned" and 11Rs are "overmanned"...

[Nodeskjobs]

25 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

Does anyone that just wants to fly the line really care about the rank, or just the extra pay that comes with the (Lt Col) rank? Better flight pay or bonus options could make up the pay difference, and that's where the focus should be, particularly since the number of O-5s the AF can have is limited.

Though I guess the problem is that the AF isn't going to increase pilot pay (through flight pay or a pro pay), and the bonus has gotten worse and probably will continue on that path. Especially since 11M are now "100% manned" and 11Rs are "overmanned"...

I’m an 11M. I applied for a ADSC waiver to retire (prior-E)-Denied. Non-select for O-5, tasked with 6-month COVID deployment handing out vaccination information sheets.