Promotion and PRF Information

[BrightNeptune]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:30 PM, artvandelay43201 said:

Heard the same (~22 Apr)

22nd was a no go as well.

What is the latest the major's board has ever been released?
What is the actual reason this is taking so long?

[artvandelay43201]

Guys in my unit are getting notified today. Senior raters have the results 

[droptime]

1 hour ago, artvandelay43201 said:

Guys in my unit are getting notified today. Senior raters have the results 

Notified of non-select for Major?? 

[artvandelay43201]

4 minutes ago, droptime said:

Notified of non-select for Major?? 

For me, yes. 
 

[droptime]

1 minute ago, artvandelay43201 said:

For me, yes. 
 

Ok. I've been waiting for this since being passed over last year. Time to make some calls! Thanks for the heads up, if you need info on the process or expectations PM me and I can share what I got.

[panchbarnes]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:07 PM, Muscle2002 said:

I found the attached on AFPC's public website as I was trying to find some info for a mentee (not related to promotion non-selection, thankfully). There are a handful of helpful inputs; however, this document contradicts itself many times and may reflect what's wrong with the Air Force. 

I especially take umbrage with the part mentioning that officers should advocate for themselves to receive strats, awards, or be pushed for jobs. AFPC thinks it is wrong for officers to believe the system will take care of them. In one sense, they are correct. A system cannot take of someone, but leaders can. I don't think it's too much to expect leaders to build, teach, or lead those in their charge. 

Take a look. I'm interested to see what others think.

OfficerPromo_LLs.pdf 127.53 kB · 69 downloads

I looked through the document and the author is pretty spot on from my experience (AD, non-rated ops, heavy Joint time, retired O4). 

Focusing on the staff jobs/titles, most FGOs know which staff jobs are promotable ones (this is the same across all services).  Then there are the HPO designated staff positions, where it's only reserved for the HPOs (AFSC specific) and no one else can touch them.  As a matter of fact, we had a manning shortage one time and they were looking for a volunteer (any AFSC) and openly advertised the designated flying HPO staff job as an "on-ramp" to the HPO world.  So not all staff jobs are created equal, know the rules of the game early and then decide whether or not you want to play.  Unless you were selected as the golden child as a LT, then you really gotta advocate hard for yourself or you'll fall behind your peers.

I thought the author was passing his knowledge down, leveling the promotion playing field for everyone.  Again, everything in the document is pretty consistent with what I've seen during my career. 

[08Dawg]

LAF-C O-5 board was in January and sounds like selects were informed today. For LAF-A, that timeline probably means late June to early July for release. 

[BrightNeptune]

If anyone has any questions about getting passed over, writing a letter to the board to get passed over again, and getting passed over again -- I'm your guy. No one has signed and turned in the continuation denial paperwork faster than I just did. 

One simple trick just gave me a year of freedom and seniority.

Life is good.

[the g-man]

I just heard of a guy passed over last year that made it this year.


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[BrightNeptune]

32 minutes ago, the g-man said:

I just heard of a guy passed over last year that made it this year.


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How does that promotion work? I heard mixed answers. 

Will he get in line with everyone from '13 and probably be at the bottom or would he be at the front of the list since it's the second look?

[pawnman]

35 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

How does that promotion work? I heard mixed answers. 

Will he get in line with everyone from '13 and probably be at the bottom or would he be at the front of the list since it's the second look?

Speaking from experience, they got rid of line numbers by time in grade and they are now by order of merit.  So your line number tells you exactly where you ranked in your promotion group.

[the g-man]

Speaking from experience, they got rid of line numbers by time in grade and they are now by order of merit.  So your line number tells you exactly where you ranked in your promotion group.

Yep. Don’t know the guy or line number personally.

The big thing with the line numbers now is funny because they wrote everywhere that your line number is just a snapshot of one time your relative standing among your peers.

Gtfo, someone in the bottom half of that shouldn’t have smoke blown up their ass telling them they could do all this cool shit and should only start hanging with ANG/AFRC and working on their airline apps.


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[jazzdude]

Speaking from experience, they got rid of line numbers by time in grade and they are now by order of merit.  So your line number tells you exactly where you ranked in your promotion group.

And just to add, if you're 1APZ your year group is now the one you promoted with, not the one you commissioned with

[jazzdude]

Yep. Don’t know the guy or line number personally.

The big thing with the line numbers now is funny because they wrote everywhere that your line number is just a snapshot of one time your relative standing among your peers.

Gtfo, someone in the bottom half of that shouldn’t have smoke blown up their ass telling them they could do all this cool shit and should only start hanging with ANG/AFRC and working on their airline apps.


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I don't know why they made a big deal about masking line numbers. You can just look at promotion month and essentially get an officers relative order of merit to within 8%

[dream big]

2 hours ago, the g-man said:

Yep. Don’t know the guy or line number personally.

The big thing with the line numbers now is funny because they wrote everywhere that your line number is just a snapshot of one time your relative standing among your peers.

Gtfo, someone in the bottom half of that shouldn’t have smoke blown up their ass telling them they could do all this cool shit and should only start hanging with ANG/AFRC and working on their airline apps.


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The Air Force has a vested interest in making sure non HPOs (it’s still a thing, even without BPZ and school selects) keep thinking they have a chance so that they actually do work and help retention numbers.  

Can you imagine actually giving a junior FGO feedback to the likes of “you’re bottom 50% in terms of records, you probably won’t go to school, maybe you’ll make 0-5 but probably not command, but hey keep flying for me when you can make 3x or more at the airlines and not deal with my BS in the guard.” It would make the decision to punch that much easy. 
 

While I do believe in honest, 360* feedback, a fly only track (without a 20 year ADSC) with a +100k (per year) bonus may stop the bleeding but that’s a pipe dream.  Pilot shortage isn’t politically popular to address and our congressmen own the purse.  
 

I stayed in because I love what I do and the AF has been good to me personally but I have zero question on why most of my bros decide to punch when the writing is on the wall. 

[the g-man]

I don't know why they made a big deal about masking line numbers. You can just look at promotion month and essentially get an officers relative order of merit to within 8%

Yeah kinda strange. They don’t mask the line numbers for the Es so why do it here? And yeah everyone figures out when you’re pinning on in August that you probably aren’t the shiniest penny


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[BrightNeptune]

Why wouldn't the Air Force just "promote" the second-time look pilots to keep them in? Give them an August pin-on date. Their ADSC would expire only a few months after they pin on and they might even go on terminal before pinning on.

What's one more dirtbag major compared to another year or so of having a pilot?

[Pooter]

Its hilarious that the merit-based line number is literally the first clear data point you get in your career on where you stand in your peer group. 

8 years in seems a tad late to be getting your first piece of real feedback. 

[the g-man]

Its hilarious that the merit-based line number is literally the first clear data point you get in your career on where you stand in your peer group. 

8 years in seems a tad late to be getting your first piece of real feedback. 

I mean the data is kind of already there. If you aren’t getting strats on oprs because you probably aren’t volunteering to do extra shit or writing 1206s for quarterlies. Because that’s what the board is probably looking at when making these lists.

Additionally the PRFs all had an x/x for anyone in the top 95% to also give the board a real quick relative standing. And education wasn’t masked for wg/cc so you know everyone without a masters already was put lower than those who went and got it


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[FLEA]

1 hour ago, the g-man said:

I mean the data is kind of already there. If you aren’t getting strats on oprs because you probably aren’t volunteering to do extra shit or writing 1206s for quarterlies. Because that’s what the board is probably looking at when making these lists.

Additionally the PRFs all had an x/x for anyone in the top 95% to also give the board a real quick relative standing. And education wasn’t masked for wg/cc so you know everyone without a masters already was put lower than those who went and got it


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Yeah but wing strats mean very little. I was top 5% of my YG for years only to find out when I went up for school that about 25% of the wing was top 5% of their YG. The amount of gamesmanship that goes on behind the scenes with stratification is frankly asinine. 

 

[Swizzle]

4 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Yeah but wing strats mean very little. I was top 5% of my YG for years only to find out when I went up for school that about 25% of the wing was top 5% of their YG. The amount of gamesmanship that goes on behind the scenes with stratification is frankly asinine. 

 

The AF is/will spend too much time on ancillary processes like promotion racking and stacking as well as ancillary CBTs than actual wartime prep/readiness. This is why the present system will implode a point in the near future, to be designed a new and most certainly commitee-driven way. Lame. Where is the trust and autonomy!? When that comes back, goodness will follow...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Swizzle
Airport loungin'

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, the g-man said:

I mean the data is kind of already there. If you aren’t getting strats on oprs because you probably aren’t volunteering to do extra shit or writing 1206s for quarterlies. Because that’s what the board is probably looking at when making these lists.

Additionally the PRFs all had an x/x for anyone in the top 95% to also give the board a real quick relative standing. And education wasn’t masked for wg/cc so you know everyone without a masters already was put lower than those who went and got it


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Except for the position, cgo, and jr cgo strats which are meaningless, the flight strats that are meaningless, the IDE push statements that are meaningless, the fact that through dumb shell games and timing up to 3-4 people can hold the same strat at once, the fact that every base writes OPRs a little differently, and the meaningless platitudes that make your average line flyer sound like a combo between John Boyd and Robin olds.
 

Oh and you are stratted against captains that could potentially be 5 years younger than you. And we're told masters status is masked till O-6 boards.. oh wait never mind the wing king can see it and will push you accordingly. 

 

I'm not upset, I made the majors list and my line number is about where I expected. Ive been an exec and seen how the sausage is made, and I like to think I'm decent at reading the tea leaves. But for anyone outside the top 10% you have to sift through a literal mountain of shit to get an accurate picture of where you stand.

This is one of many reasons the Air Force has retention issues. We spend 8 years sugarcoating and obfuscating people's performance and then wonder why they're surprised when their board results aren't what they expected. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Pooter

[the g-man]

Except for the position, cgo, and jr cgo strats which are meaningless, the flight strats that are meaningless, the IDE push statements that are meaningless, the fact that through dumb shell games and timing up to 3-4 people can hold the same strat at once, the fact that every base writes OPRs a little differently, and the meaningless platitudes that make your average line flyer sound like a combo between John Boyd and Robin olds.
 
Oh and you are stratted against captains that could potentially be 5 years younger than you. And we're told masters status is masked till O-6 boards.. oh wait never mind the wing king can see it and will push you accordingly. 
 
I'm not upset, I made the majors list and my line number is about where I expected. Ive been an exec and seen how the sausage is made, and I like to think I'm decent at reading the tea leaves. But for anyone outside the top 10% you have to sift through a literal mountain of shit to get an accurate picture of where you stand.
This is one of many reasons the Air Force has retention issues. We spend 8 years sugarcoating and obfuscating people's performance and then wonder why they're surprised when their board results aren't what they expected. 

Yeah you’re right. Idk I guess as someone who got a line number in the lowest 10% it was rich when my rater encouraged me to jump through a bunch of hoops and rack and stack all the IDE in-res programs when it would probably take an Avengers type blip for me to get selected. I chose to click the “I do not wish to be considered” button than waste hours of my life ranking these programs instead.


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[dream big]

9 hours ago, Pooter said:

the fact that through dumb shell games and timing up to 3-4 people can hold the same strat at once
 

Not anymore! Static OPR close-outs are going to make things interesting, for the better I hope.  It was absolutely ridiculous the number of ways commanders could carve up strats (#1 CGO, #1 Capt, #1 in YG etc) and board members saw right through it, doing the individual captains/majors no favors. This will force commanders to find their balls and actually give honest feedback. 

[Pooter]

6 hours ago, dream big said:

Not anymore! Static OPR close-outs are going to make things interesting, for the better I hope.  It was absolutely ridiculous the number of ways commanders could carve up strats (#1 CGO, #1 Capt, #1 in YG etc) and board members saw right through it, doing the individual captains/majors no favors. This will force commanders to find their balls and actually give honest feedback. 

That's at least movement in the right direction.