Promotion and PRF Information

[Muscle2002]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

That's at least movement in the right direction. 

We need to require rank and year-group stratifications that go #1-to-end. This way, everyone knows exactly where they stand in relation to others of the same rank and their immediate peers.

The SCOD OPRs and highly constrained strats (Department of the Air Force Grade, Command Position, and Duty Position are only allowable; no more percentages) go a long way in clarifying relative performance. However, I think most raters will choose NOT to stratify someone as #6/12 Capts, for example, so that they can then use #2/20 IPs as the secondary strat—the current guidance requires a DAF Grade strat to use a Duty Position strat. My guess: raters will use the typical fluff if they cannot give a "good" strat, leaving both the member and board guessing where the person fell compared to their peers for the rating period.

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, Muscle2002 said:

We need to require rank and year-group stratifications that go #1-to-end. This way, everyone knows exactly where they stand in relation to others of the same rank and their immediate peers.

The SCOD OPRs and highly constrained strats (Department of the Air Force Grade, Command Position, and Duty Position are only allowable; no more percentages) go a long way in clarifying relative performance. However, I think most raters will choose NOT to stratify someone as #6/12 Capts, for example, so that they can then use #2/20 IPs as the secondary strat—the current guidance requires a DAF Grade strat to use a Duty Position strat. My guess: raters will use the typical fluff if they cannot give a "good" strat, leaving both the member and board guessing where the person fell compared to their peers for the rating period.

Agree. We also need to mask all strats and records from a prior promotion board on a subsequent promotion board. Basically, once you promote, you get a clean slate. People don't get to ride a good record early in their career up through Wing command. Similarly, having a rough start doesn't automatically preclude you from making an amazing turnaround later. 

[dream big]

4 hours ago, FLEA said:

Agree. We also need to mask all strats and records from a prior promotion board on a subsequent promotion board. Basically, once you promote, you get a clean slate. People don't get to ride a good record early in their career up through Wing command. Similarly, having a rough start doesn't automatically preclude you from making an amazing turnaround later. 

Rumint from a wing king who has sat on many boards : promotion boards will eventually see last 5 OPRs only, and any TR/medal/negative records within the time period of only those 5 OPRs.  Again that’s just word of mouth and not confirmed…but I too am hoping we can rid ourselves of those golden goose Capts that end up being lazy and/or toxic leaders. 

[daynightindicator]

Simplest thing folks can do if they want to maximize promotion potential for O-5 is complete DE in correspondence.

It might not get you promoted, but it will certainly make sure you don’t get promoted if you skip it.

This is not an endorsement of the system, just an observation.

[SurelySerious]

Simplest thing folks can do if they want to maximize promotion potential for O-5 is stay in long enough.

FIFY

[daynightindicator]

FIFY

Not wrong. But DE is still a discriminator.

[FLEA]

8 hours ago, dream big said:

Rumint from a wing king who has sat on many boards : promotion boards will eventually see last 5 OPRs only, and any TR/medal/negative records within the time period of only those 5 OPRs.  Again that’s just word of mouth and not confirmed…but I too am hoping we can rid ourselves of those golden goose Capts that end up being lazy and/or toxic leaders. 

I find it hard to believe only because right now federal law says promotion boards for officers must see ALL disciplinary against an officer. I believe that was passed as part of the 2018 or 2019 NDAA. 

[pawnman]

10 hours ago, FLEA said:

I find it hard to believe only because right now federal law says promotion boards for officers must see ALL disciplinary against an officer. I believe that was passed as part of the 2018 or 2019 NDAA. 

Disciplinary actions is different than every OPR.

[FLEA]

44 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Disciplinary actions is different than every OPR.

Not sure what you mean. I was responding to dream bigs RUMINT on 5 year windows. It just doesn't jive because obviously disciplinary action could be outside those 5 years and would by law be required to meet the promotion board. That's directly contradictory to his post in which his RUMINT was that only disciplinary actions within the scope of the 5 year windows would be reviewed. 

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Not sure what you mean. I was responding to dream bigs RUMINT on 5 year windows. It just doesn't jive because obviously disciplinary action could be outside those 5 years and would by law be required to meet the promotion board. That's directly contradictory to his post in which his RUMINT was that only disciplinary actions within the scope of the 5 year windows would be reviewed. 

Lack of OPR during the disciplined-period for the board to see could be troublesome. It's ripe for speculation without more context. 

[dream big]

15 hours ago, FLEA said:

I find it hard to believe only because right now federal law says promotion boards for officers must see ALL disciplinary against an officer. I believe that was passed as part of the 2018 or 2019 NDAA. 

He could’ve just be referring to LORs/UIFs, yeah I can imagine an article 15 is going to be very hard to bury.  Does the NDAA dictate all disciplinary action or just NJP or greater? 

[FLEA]

22 minutes ago, dream big said:

He could’ve just be referring to LORs/UIFs, yeah I can imagine an article 15 is going to be very hard to bury.  Does the NDAA dictate all disciplinary action or just NJP or greater? 

I'm not 100% certain TBH. I was under the impression that it was all adverse information for O-4 and above, and any adverse info that resulted in significant media attention for O-3. 

[Swizzle]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

He could’ve just be referring to LORs/UIFs, yeah I can imagine an article 15 is going to be very hard to bury.  Does the NDAA dictate all disciplinary action or just NJP or greater? 

https://www.airforcemag.com/under-new-rules-officer-promotion-boards-will-see-more-negative-information/

[pizzafrenchfries]

New account, if it's inappropriate than mods please delete

Looking for some advice, as I got notified I was passed over as well.

Long story short:

• No negative information in OPRs
• Thin strats (kept my head down, did my job, and went home every day)
• 1500 total hours, 500 combat hours
• Still a right seater. This one takes a bit of context so here's my tale of woe.

Way back in the day, I graduated top 1/3 from UPT and got a super sweet platform OCONUS. Got screwed by EFMP and lost the slot in the middle of the schoolhouse, getting diverted to a platform stateside. This platform takes a long time to upgrade but was also shutting down. Spent about 3 years there and was promised AC upgrade if I transferred to another MDS at an undesirable base as there were no more school slots for my platform (schoolhouse shut down).

Got my orders and then the new unit commander called and said, "left seat upgrade en route? That was a verbal from old CC to your CC. We don't do that in my squadron." Old CC was like "sorry buddy, there's no turning off these orders". Basically was meat to the grinder.

PCS'ed a bitter man, worked my ass off and got qualified and then nominated for upgrade in an extremely short time. COVID hit and severely disrupted ops but I was still able to start upgrade. 2 weeks prior to my checkride we get the news that our son has a lifelong medical condition and we need to PCS because there's no facilities at this base. Also we're pregnant and it's gonna be high risk.

That really messed up my mojo. Flew a crap checkride and Q-3'd, first failed checkride ever. Totally own that, as it was bad flying. Really spiraled, had a bad time, did not finish remediation rides as I was in a pretty bad mental state and we were packing to move at the same time. My spouse was dealing with some severe medical issues stemming from the pregnancy. Basically made a shit sandwich that the air force wrapped in a turd. This was right before the PRF closeout, so no time to recover or fix my problem. Pretty much the worst timing ever. Went to therapy (not mental health!), learned to stop blaming myself for things completely outside my control, and got healthy again.

PCS'ed again to a new base and was reassigned a different platform (#4 if you're counting). About 6 months of being stashed at a non flying job while they figured out what to do with me. Honestly a godsend, if we didn't have the time to make our lives right I don't know if my family would still be together or not today.

Still a copilot. Did terrific in the schoolhouse as right seat (pretty good at it by now) and am now in a flying squadron that I love. We're expanding, not contracting, and the mission is amazing.

So here we are now, basically starting over again. Did OPD with my new commander after the notification and the only thing he could see that was stood out was the copilot AFSC. He promised me that I would upgrade by the time the next board rolls around. 

All of which sounds good and I'm confident that he'll make it right.

HOWEVER, my experience so far makes me pessimistic that we'll get this sorted out in the next 5 months before the board meets again.

What should I do? I have three main fears...

I am afraid that I don't have enough time between the Q3 and a possibly forced separation to look competitive to the airlines (or guard). 

I don't know what I can constructively do in my career in the next 5 months (aside from upgrading) that can increase my chances of getting picked up on the second look. I do good work, I am not a dirtbag, I work for my pay.

My kiddo's medical treatments are EXTREMELY expensive. We will be in the poorhouse if we lose insurance.

 

[17D_guy]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:43 PM, Swizzle said:

https://www.airforcemag.com/under-new-rules-officer-promotion-boards-will-see-more-negative-information/

I'll never forget the MXG/CC exec getting a DUI and the MXG/CC attempting to not reflect it in the OPR at all. Dude still tried to strat the guy. Like, I get it. Might have been an awesome bro, but the timing sucked and the system built around us is 1-mistake even if they say it isn't.

[viper154]

On 5/24/2022 at 9:17 AM, pizzafrenchfries said:

New account, if it's inappropriate than mods please delete

Looking for some advice, as I got notified I was passed over as well.

Long story short:

• No negative information in OPRs
• Thin strats (kept my head down, did my job, and went home every day)
• 1500 total hours, 500 combat hours
• Still a right seater. This one takes a bit of context so here's my tale of woe.

Way back in the day, I graduated top 1/3 from UPT and got a super sweet platform OCONUS. Got screwed by EFMP and lost the slot in the middle of the schoolhouse, getting diverted to a platform stateside. This platform takes a long time to upgrade but was also shutting down. Spent about 3 years there and was promised AC upgrade if I transferred to another MDS at an undesirable base as there were no more school slots for my platform (schoolhouse shut down).

Got my orders and then the new unit commander called and said, "left seat upgrade en route? That was a verbal from old CC to your CC. We don't do that in my squadron." Old CC was like "sorry buddy, there's no turning off these orders". Basically was meat to the grinder.

PCS'ed a bitter man, worked my ass off and got qualified and then nominated for upgrade in an extremely short time. COVID hit and severely disrupted ops but I was still able to start upgrade. 2 weeks prior to my checkride we get the news that our son has a lifelong medical condition and we need to PCS because there's no facilities at this base. Also we're pregnant and it's gonna be high risk.

That really messed up my mojo. Flew a crap checkride and Q-3'd, first failed checkride ever. Totally own that, as it was bad flying. Really spiraled, had a bad time, did not finish remediation rides as I was in a pretty bad mental state and we were packing to move at the same time. My spouse was dealing with some severe medical issues stemming from the pregnancy. Basically made a shit sandwich that the air force wrapped in a turd. This was right before the PRF closeout, so no time to recover or fix my problem. Pretty much the worst timing ever. Went to therapy (not mental health!), learned to stop blaming myself for things completely outside my control, and got healthy again.

PCS'ed again to a new base and was reassigned a different platform (#4 if you're counting). About 6 months of being stashed at a non flying job while they figured out what to do with me. Honestly a godsend, if we didn't have the time to make our lives right I don't know if my family would still be together or not today.

Still a copilot. Did terrific in the schoolhouse as right seat (pretty good at it by now) and am now in a flying squadron that I love. We're expanding, not contracting, and the mission is amazing.

So here we are now, basically starting over again. Did OPD with my new commander after the notification and the only thing he could see that was stood out was the copilot AFSC. He promised me that I would upgrade by the time the next board rolls around. 

All of which sounds good and I'm confident that he'll make it right.

HOWEVER, my experience so far makes me pessimistic that we'll get this sorted out in the next 5 months before the board meets again.

What should I do? I have three main fears...

I am afraid that I don't have enough time between the Q3 and a possibly forced separation to look competitive to the airlines (or guard). 

I don't know what I can constructively do in my career in the next 5 months (aside from upgrading) that can increase my chances of getting picked up on the second look. I do good work, I am not a dirtbag, I work for my pay.

My kiddo's medical treatments are EXTREMELY expensive. We will be in the poorhouse if we lose insurance.

 

I would say f it (the promotion) Focus on flying, they aren’t kicking out passed over pilots anytime soon. Get the upgrade and continue crushing checkrides. Get all that A code time you can for your ATP mins. Do what you got to do to make yourself competitive for the airlines. Depending on the timing you might need to take a regional gig for a year or two.  Start networking now for guard/reserve gigs. If you have trouble getting a flying gig you can easily get a non flying job or a staff gig that gets ya that tricare. My buddy got a staff gig, only goes in a couple times a year, only does it for the tricare. 
 

If staying on AD is more your gig take the bonus when you are eligible. 

[Danger41]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:17 AM, pizzafrenchfries said:

New account, if it's inappropriate than mods please delete

Looking for some advice, as I got notified I was passed over as well.

Long story short:

• No negative information in OPRs
• Thin strats (kept my head down, did my job, and went home every day)
• 1500 total hours, 500 combat hours
• Still a right seater. This one takes a bit of context so here's my tale of woe.

Way back in the day, I graduated top 1/3 from UPT and got a super sweet platform OCONUS. Got screwed by EFMP and lost the slot in the middle of the schoolhouse, getting diverted to a platform stateside. This platform takes a long time to upgrade but was also shutting down. Spent about 3 years there and was promised AC upgrade if I transferred to another MDS at an undesirable base as there were no more school slots for my platform (schoolhouse shut down).

Got my orders and then the new unit commander called and said, "left seat upgrade en route? That was a verbal from old CC to your CC. We don't do that in my squadron." Old CC was like "sorry buddy, there's no turning off these orders". Basically was meat to the grinder.

PCS'ed a bitter man, worked my ass off and got qualified and then nominated for upgrade in an extremely short time. COVID hit and severely disrupted ops but I was still able to start upgrade. 2 weeks prior to my checkride we get the news that our son has a lifelong medical condition and we need to PCS because there's no facilities at this base. Also we're pregnant and it's gonna be high risk.

That really messed up my mojo. Flew a crap checkride and Q-3'd, first failed checkride ever. Totally own that, as it was bad flying. Really spiraled, had a bad time, did not finish remediation rides as I was in a pretty bad mental state and we were packing to move at the same time. My spouse was dealing with some severe medical issues stemming from the pregnancy. Basically made a shit sandwich that the air force wrapped in a turd. This was right before the PRF closeout, so no time to recover or fix my problem. Pretty much the worst timing ever. Went to therapy (not mental health!), learned to stop blaming myself for things completely outside my control, and got healthy again.

PCS'ed again to a new base and was reassigned a different platform (#4 if you're counting). About 6 months of being stashed at a non flying job while they figured out what to do with me. Honestly a godsend, if we didn't have the time to make our lives right I don't know if my family would still be together or not today.

Still a copilot. Did terrific in the schoolhouse as right seat (pretty good at it by now) and am now in a flying squadron that I love. We're expanding, not contracting, and the mission is amazing.

So here we are now, basically starting over again. Did OPD with my new commander after the notification and the only thing he could see that was stood out was the copilot AFSC. He promised me that I would upgrade by the time the next board rolls around. 

All of which sounds good and I'm confident that he'll make it right.

HOWEVER, my experience so far makes me pessimistic that we'll get this sorted out in the next 5 months before the board meets again.

What should I do? I have three main fears...

I am afraid that I don't have enough time between the Q3 and a possibly forced separation to look competitive to the airlines (or guard). 

I don't know what I can constructively do in my career in the next 5 months (aside from upgrading) that can increase my chances of getting picked up on the second look. I do good work, I am not a dirtbag, I work for my pay.

My kiddo's medical treatments are EXTREMELY expensive. We will be in the poorhouse if we lose insurance.

 

Out of curiosity, are you the guy that got U-28’s and went on a Facebook tirade about how shitty that community is? 

[HossHarris]

On 5/24/2022 at 10:17 AM, pizzafrenchfries said:

….

Long story long ….

With some prep you’ll have wonderful airline interview stories …

[CaptainMorgan]

I would say f it (the promotion) Focus on flying, they aren’t kicking out passed over pilots anytime soon. Get the upgrade and continue crushing checkrides. Get all that A code time you can for your ATP mins. Do what you got to do to make yourself competitive for the airlines. Depending on the timing you might need to take a regional gig for a year or two.  Start networking now for guard/reserve gigs. If you have trouble getting a flying gig you can easily get a non flying job or a staff gig that gets ya that tricare. My buddy got a staff gig, only goes in a couple times a year, only does it for the tricare. 
 
If staying on AD is more your gig take the bonus when you are eligible. 

No A-code time required for an ATP. SIC on an airplane that requires 2 pilots counts in the FAA’s eyes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BrightNeptune]

On 5/24/2022 at 9:17 AM, pizzafrenchfries said:

New account, if it's inappropriate than mods please delete

Looking for some advice, as I got notified I was passed over as well.

Long story short:

• No negative information in OPRs
• Thin strats (kept my head down, did my job, and went home every day)
• 1500 total hours, 500 combat hours
• Still a right seater. This one takes a bit of context so here's my tale of woe.

Way back in the day, I graduated top 1/3 from UPT and got a super sweet platform OCONUS. Got screwed by EFMP and lost the slot in the middle of the schoolhouse, getting diverted to a platform stateside. This platform takes a long time to upgrade but was also shutting down. Spent about 3 years there and was promised AC upgrade if I transferred to another MDS at an undesirable base as there were no more school slots for my platform (schoolhouse shut down).

Got my orders and then the new unit commander called and said, "left seat upgrade en route? That was a verbal from old CC to your CC. We don't do that in my squadron." Old CC was like "sorry buddy, there's no turning off these orders". Basically was meat to the grinder.

PCS'ed a bitter man, worked my ass off and got qualified and then nominated for upgrade in an extremely short time. COVID hit and severely disrupted ops but I was still able to start upgrade. 2 weeks prior to my checkride we get the news that our son has a lifelong medical condition and we need to PCS because there's no facilities at this base. Also we're pregnant and it's gonna be high risk.

That really messed up my mojo. Flew a crap checkride and Q-3'd, first failed checkride ever. Totally own that, as it was bad flying. Really spiraled, had a bad time, did not finish remediation rides as I was in a pretty bad mental state and we were packing to move at the same time. My spouse was dealing with some severe medical issues stemming from the pregnancy. Basically made a shit sandwich that the air force wrapped in a turd. This was right before the PRF closeout, so no time to recover or fix my problem. Pretty much the worst timing ever. Went to therapy (not mental health!), learned to stop blaming myself for things completely outside my control, and got healthy again.

PCS'ed again to a new base and was reassigned a different platform (#4 if you're counting). About 6 months of being stashed at a non flying job while they figured out what to do with me. Honestly a godsend, if we didn't have the time to make our lives right I don't know if my family would still be together or not today.

Still a copilot. Did terrific in the schoolhouse as right seat (pretty good at it by now) and am now in a flying squadron that I love. We're expanding, not contracting, and the mission is amazing.

So here we are now, basically starting over again. Did OPD with my new commander after the notification and the only thing he could see that was stood out was the copilot AFSC. He promised me that I would upgrade by the time the next board rolls around. 

All of which sounds good and I'm confident that he'll make it right.

HOWEVER, my experience so far makes me pessimistic that we'll get this sorted out in the next 5 months before the board meets again.

What should I do? I have three main fears...

I am afraid that I don't have enough time between the Q3 and a possibly forced separation to look competitive to the airlines (or guard). 

I don't know what I can constructively do in my career in the next 5 months (aside from upgrading) that can increase my chances of getting picked up on the second look. I do good work, I am not a dirtbag, I work for my pay.

My kiddo's medical treatments are EXTREMELY expensive. We will be in the poorhouse if we lose insurance.

 

A regional will hire you without question if you choose not to continue after getting passed over the second time. A major will grab you after you show you're not useless. You're in a good position.

[viper154]

22 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

No A-code time required for an ATP. SIC on an airplane that requires 2 pilots counts in the FAA’s eyes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ya, you right. 

 

On 5/26/2022 at 5:28 PM, Danger41 said:

Out of curiosity, are you the guy that got U-28’s and went on a Facebook tirade about how shitty that community is? 

Link or screen shot? 

[BeefBears]

13 hours ago, viper154 said:

Ya, you right. 

 

Link or screen shot? 

I would assume, like most things AFSOC, it was about not getting taken care of career-wise. The command is good at grooming officers on their HPO list but not so much the middle majority that continuously deploys. I dont think U28s are alone in that matter. 

[Danger41]

I don’t. The only thing that reminded me was that individual and this story talked about EFMP for a kid and how that caused problems for his career.

And it was about how he wanted gunships but got “this piece of shit” lol. Then went on to just go off about the community etc. Unfortunate scenario of getting caught up in emotions and realizing he didn’t have what it took to be flying something requiring one engine and two massive balls.

[BrightNeptune]

5 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

one engine and two massive balls.

lol

I've never heard the Combat Platypus described like that before.

[viper154]

1 hour ago, BeefBears said:

I would assume, like most things AFSOC, it was about not getting taken care of career-wise. The command is good at grooming officers on their HPO list but not so much the middle majority that continuously deploys. I dont think U28s are alone in that matter. 

Well aware, U28 community did not do well on this last major board, well below the rated average.