Promotion and PRF Information

[pbar]

1 hour ago, StoleIt said:

So, even when the Air Force claims to value advanced degrees...they really don't.

I've always thought that the entire Air Force personnel system is pretty much designed to fill one job-Chief of Staff Air Force.  The personnel system doesn't seem to place enough importance on building senior leaders (colonels/generals) who are experts at strategy, acquisition, foreign cultures, EW, cyber, etc., expertise (for which AADs are useful) that complements and force multiples Ops.

[the g-man]

Interestingly, a buddy of mine ended up getting selected for the program to get a Master's right out of ROTC. He regrets doing the program because all it did was put him 2 years behind his peers. I guess if he wanted to go to TPS it would help immensely but, otherwise someone would really have to dig into his records to see he got selected for that program in the first place, unlike Phoenix. It didn't help him at all professionally.
So, even when the Air Force claims to value advanced degrees...they really don't.

I went to UPT with someone who did an AFIT masters… they are an astronaut now


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[Swizzle]

4 hours ago, the g-man said:

I went to UPT with someone who did an AFIT masters… they are an astronaut now


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But did they make Major? /s 

 

(It is a promotion thread)

[Biff_T]

41 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

But did they make Major? /s 

 

(It is a promotion thread)

Major Tom

[disgruntledemployee]

5 hours ago, the g-man said:

I went to UPT with someone who did an AFIT masters… they are an astronaut now

A former Sq mate went to AFIT as a Maj.  He's now at United Airlines.

[ClearedHot]

[nsplayr]

Quick point for you meme makers out there:

American Military University based in West Virginia, founded in 1991, and a for-profit, is the online “you get out what you put in” military degree factory. Not terrible but not amazing. It is what it is.

Whereas American University is a nice, private, non-profit traditional brick-and-mortar university in Washington, DC, founded in 1893, and known for students studying international relations and public administration.

I have degrees from both so I’m highly qualified and educated to speak on this specific topic 😅

Edited January 5, 2023 by nsplayr

[flyusaf83]

I’m expecting to be passed over for Lt Col.  What can I expect with continuation?  Is it automatic for passed over Majors, or is it something they offer on an individual basis? 

[FourFans]

12 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

I’m expecting to be passed over for Lt Col.  What can I expect with continuation?  Is it automatic for passed over Majors, or is it something they offer on an individual basis? 

I was passed over in 2016 and 17, so the data is a bit dated.  However, I wouldn't be surprised if the process hasn't changed at all.  Expect continuation to be offered if you're in a critical career field.  It's an individualized letter you get and are required to sign, so read everything carefully.  If it's confusing, grab a personalist to de-code it before you sign. 

If passed over, you're supposed to get a sit-down with your commander to cover all the details and what to expect next.  Grill him on details in that interview and get your ranking as he pushed you out of the squadron, as well as your ranking in the wing.  That's less about fixing something and more about accountability.  Any commander worth his salt should already be digging in to see exactly why you didn't make it. 

After all that, you get a one-on-one phone counselling with a AFPC civilian who's whole existence is promotions and passed over stats.  That is about looking at the numbers for your entire promotion group and examining some of your peer group packages that were right on the cut-off line to see what they had vs what you had.

That's what's supposed to happen.  In my case, I got a phone call from my supervising O-6 who was two countries away saying 'sorry, you didn't make it, good luck'...and I had to figure all this out on my own, so beware: mileage may vary.  I will simply highlight that it's your boss's job to dig all this up and explain it, but there are also a lot of useless bosses out there.

As your profile says you're at RND, you should be able to go direct to the source for councelling...or simply to kick those AFPC clowns in the shins...

Edited April 15, 2023 by FourFans

[CaptainMorgan]

I was passed over in 2016 and 17, so the data is a bit dated.  However, I wouldn't be surprised if the process hasn't changed at all.  Expect continuation to be offered if you're in a critical career field.  It's an individualized letter you get and are required to sign, so read everything carefully.  If it's confusing, grab a personalist to de-code it before you sign. 
If passed over, you're supposed to get a sit-down with your commander to cover all the details and what to expect next.  Grill him on details in that interview and get your ranking as he pushed you out of the squadron, as well as your ranking in the wing.  That's less about fixing something and more about accountability.  Any commander worth his salt should already be digging in to see exactly why you didn't make it. 
After all that, you get a one-on-one phone counselling with a AFPC civilian who's whole existence is promotions and passed over stats.  That is about looking at the numbers for your entire promotion group and examining some of your peer group packages that were right on the cut-off line to see what they had vs what you had.
That's what's supposed to happen.  In my case, I got a phone call from my supervising O-6 who was two countries away saying 'sorry, you didn't make it, good luck'...and I had to figure all this out on my own, so beware: mileage may vary.  I will simply highlight that it's your boss's job to dig all this up and explain it, but there are also a lot of useless bosses out there.
As your profile says you're at RND, you should be able to go direct to the source for councelling...or simply to kick those AFPC clowns in the shins...

My phone counseling was about a month after my board results, with an AFPC O-5, and it was a waste of time. It basically went like this:

Him: For your next OPR, make sure it says X, Y, and Z.
Me: My “next OPR” just closed out, and my PRF is due in 2 weeks because HAF accelerated the board schedule.
Him: Oh, well, good luck.

As far as continuation, if you’re a pilot with a clean record, you should definitely be offered it. I’ve known several pilots who didn’t make Major and still got offered continuation to 20 as a Captain.


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[Guardian]

My phone counseling was about a month after my board results, with an AFPC O-5, and it was a waste of time. It basically went like this:

Him: For your next OPR, make sure it says X, Y, and Z.
Me: My “next OPR” just closed out, and my PRF is due in 2 weeks because HAF accelerated the board schedule.
Him: Oh, well, good luck.

As far as continuation, if you’re a pilot with a clean record, you should definitely be offered it. I’ve known several pilots who didn’t make Major and still got offered continuation to 20 as a Captain.


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Wait. You’re not a captain?

[Scooter14]

I’ve known several pilots who didn’t make Major and still got offered continuation to 20 as a Captain.


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Ah yes, the US Air Force

“We don’t have enough pilots”

Then they don’t promote the pilots they have

Then they wonder why they don’t have any pilots….

Let’s see here:
Continuation to 20 as a captain vs. get a line number and join the ARC and try to make Major there.

Which one makes way more financial sense?




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[CaptainMorgan]

Ah yes, the US Air Force

“We don’t have enough pilots”

Then they don’t promote the pilots they have

Then they wonder why they don’t have any pilots….

Let’s see here:
Continuation to 20 as a captain vs. get a line number and join the ARC and try to make Major there.

Which one makes way more financial sense?




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I’m just hoping budget priorities result in a crew ratio adjustment and an “excess” of pilots and they open up VSP/TERA again. Wishful thinking I know, but given how inept our leadership is, nothing surprises me and I could see it happening.


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[filthy_liar]

9 hours ago, FourFans said:

I was passed over in 2016 and 17

Dear god.  Did I read that correct?  And you are spouting on this forum?

[FourFans]

13 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

Let’s see here:
Continuation to 20 as a captain vs. get a line number and join the ARC and try to make Major there.

Which one makes way more financial sense?

Seriously.  I just heard from the bobs at my AFRC unit that the people on high have directed that anyone coming from AD to our unit who is current and qualified will be gained as an overage without hurting our manning/hiring numbers.  Our unit is healthy, but big blue is bleeding pilots so badly they have to dictate such measures.

In other news, this is my last day in the AF. Thank God.

[nunya]

1 hour ago, FourFans said:

In other news, this is my last day in the AF.

Congratulations!  

[Swizzle]

3 hours ago, FourFans said:

Seriously // // bleeding pilots so badly they have to dictate such measures...

Just wait till this summer's exodus! We ain't seen nothing yet, and the next few years' summer-leaving-cycle will be compounded by continued airline hiring and more pilots entering free agency, combined with expiring ADSCs from the select-a-year-quanitity AvB from a few years ago. 

[Shakermaker]

On 4/15/2023 at 1:14 PM, flyusaf83 said:

I’m expecting to be passed over for Lt Col.  What can I expect with continuation?  Is it automatic for passed over Majors, or is it something they offer on an individual basis? 

I took continuation last year, if you are a pilot you will be offered it no question.  As previously said, you will be given a non-continuation letter and another form to sign that you either accept or deny continuation.  One change that began last year that was different from previous years is that Big Blue is only offering it up to 20 years.  Previously you had the option of 20 or 24, and perhaps this year it was reverted given how consistent AFPC is with these types of things.  

My non-selection counseling was on the phone with an 0-5 who basically told me what I already knew.  My records were great, but I didn't check a certain PME box.  This may have been done purposely to provide some stability for family needs, regardless of whatever pay or leadership opportunities that were forfeited.  Most likely it will be the standard "get good strats, lots of awards, a staff assignment would help, blah blah blah".

One thing to note, if you do decide to take continuation you are NOT locked in for 20 years, it's not an ADSC.  But, if you take it, any outstanding ADSCs still apply (like a bonus commitment).

Fingers crossed for TERA! (/s)

Edited April 17, 2023 by Shakermaker
sarcasm

[HeloDude]

7 minutes ago, Shakermaker said:

I took continuation last year…

A little confused here…

From what you wrote, I interpret that you didn’t do your (what I assume) ACSC correspondence, you believe that you would have made O-5 (I assume that’s what you got passed over for) if you would have done your correspondence, you have a bonus (assume) and took continuation which prevents you from getting out of your bonus earlier…but you’re also hoping to be able to retire earlier under TERA?

If this is all true, then why didn’t you do your ACSC correspondence and/or why didn’t you just decline continuation to get out of your bonus (which I assume you took)?  I know you said this “may have been done purposely”…but I have yet to meet anyone who wanted to do 20 years in the AF and who would rather  retire as a Major than a Lt Col.  By the way, from my vantage point, very few people that make Lt Col, and are not in the top 1/3 of selects, get non-vol’d to become commanders and/or get staff jobs since the priority is to fill cockpits.  Unless something has changed quite a bit recently?

I know that I offer a lot of assumptions on my part, but it’s what I gathered from your post.

[Shakermaker]

47 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

A little confused here…

From what you wrote, I interpret that you didn’t do your (what I assume) ACSC correspondence, you believe that you would have made O-5 (I assume that’s what you got passed over for) if you would have done your correspondence, you have a bonus (assume) and took continuation which prevents you from getting out of your bonus earlier…but you’re also hoping to be able to retire earlier under TERA?

If this is all true, then why didn’t you do your ACSC correspondence and/or why didn’t you just decline continuation to get out of your bonus (which I assume you took)?  I know you said this “may have been done purposely”…but I have yet to meet anyone who wanted to do 20 years in the AF and who would rather  retire as a Major than a Lt Col.  By the way, from my vantage point, very few people that make Lt Col, and are not in the top 1/3 of selects, get non-vol’d to become commanders and/or get staff jobs since the priority is to fill cockpits.  Unless something has changed quite a bit recently?

I know that I offer a lot of assumptions on my part, but it’s what I gathered from your post.

It's a long story that I won't get into on a forum, but most of it was based on family issues/needs.  "Want" vs. "need" to  do 20 years in the AF is where I am at now, and yes things have changed quite a bit recently that would have set us up better for life outside of active duty.  I'm probably not offering much clarification and being too vague, sorry if that doesn't help.

[HeloDude]

Just now, Shakermaker said:

It's a long story that I won't get into on a forum, but most of it was based on family issues/needs.  "Want" vs. "need" to  do 20 years in the AF is where I am at now, and yes things have changed quite a bit recently that would have set us up better for life outside of active duty.  I'm probably not offering much clarification and being too vague, sorry if that doesn't help.

No worries man, I was just posting for sake of conversation.  Best of luck and hope it all works out well for you and your family.

[Dogs-N-Guns]

Most people I work with expect me to be on the O-6 list this summer. However, I think I am done, enrolled in TAP, planning retirement. Assuming I get selected, would I be an idiot for walking away and retiring at 20?

[FLEA]

8 minutes ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

Most people I work with expect me to be on the O-6 list this summer. However, I think I am done, enrolled in TAP, planning retirement. Assuming I get selected, would I be an idiot for walking away and retiring at 20?

Nope. Waters great on this side of the pool friend. Pay is also. Im happier, my family is happier, my son is in a 100X better school than we ever could have had AD. Go find the life you always owed yourself and your family. You deserve it and congrats on the retirement. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by FLEA

[Smokin]

1 hour ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

Most people I work with expect me to be on the O-6 list this summer. However, I think I am done, enrolled in TAP, planning retirement. Assuming I get selected, would I be an idiot for walking away and retiring at 20?

Every day you show up to work past 20 years, you're working for $60K less since you'd get that $60K in retirement to just have a heart beat.  If you think you might be done, you're probably done. 

Retiring as an O-6 at 30 years just doubled your retirement pay to $120K and you stand a chance to full up retire in your early 50's if you're good with money.  But by then most peoples kids will have moved to college and you'll have missed much of their childhood with queep the boss 'needs tonight'.

[SurelySerious]

Retiring as an O-6 at 30 years just doubled your retirement pay to $120K and you stand a chance to full up retire in your early 50's if you're good with money.  But by then most peoples kids will have moved to college and you'll have missed much of their childhood with queep the boss 'needs tonight'.

That sounds really fatiguing.