Promotion and PRF Information

[Bode]

Anyone heard anything on the 08 YG PRFs for major being due in October? My exec is claiming it's not official but was passed from a buddy at AFPC.

I know that would be a large jump in dates from the 07 guys but I wouldn't be too shocked.

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[Danger41]

2 hours ago, Lstcause257 said:

Anyone heard anything on the 08 YG PRFs for major being due in October? My exec is claiming it's not official but was passed from a buddy at AFPC.

I know that would be a large jump in dates from the 07 guys but I wouldn't be too shocked.

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That'd be a huge jump.  Why would they do that?

[PlanePhlyer]

2 hours ago, Lstcause257 said:

Anyone heard anything on the 08 YG PRFs for major being due in October? My exec is claiming it's not official but was passed from a buddy at AFPC.

I know that would be a large jump in dates from the 07 guys but I wouldn't be too shocked.

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I would be surprised. Maybe due within the Sqdn in October. If it was due this year it would probably be in MyPers. 

[11F]

In my corner of the 11F world, going to WIC has absolutely zero to do with an individual's career and everything to do with selecting the right individual to lead a squadron's training program for that squadron to be thee most lethal squadron in the world. The 11F WIC is way too difficult to pick someone based on anything else...they'll washout.

The MAF has always struck me as career focused instead of job focused, but I guess when you spend a bunch of time droning from point A to point B for hours on end you run out of approach plates and 11-217 to cover and you end up talking about how to get promoted? All I know is that no one talks about this career stuff in the fighter squadrons I've been in for two reasons: 1) there are too many tactical things to learn to have time to talk about someone's career (this is often to a fault) and B) you will be ridiculed for talking about this career stuff in the fighter squadron common areas because of item #1 (again often times to the detriment of careers, but few care).

WIC grads around me do the typical FS WO job followed by either teaching at Nellis or Wing Weapons. After that, it's either off to IDE/staff, get offered a 365 and go guard/reserve, or get out altogether and do something completely unrelated. I have never seen any 11F patch in my community ever be an aide/Exec at any level unless they were a graduated sq/cc, and that's to be a 4-star's Exec (the right guy being groomed to be a GO). The guys in my community who are the aides/execs are the non-patch wearers, and they are often the ones who care more about their career moves than they would ever admit (somethings are the same in every community in the USAF).

[Skitzo]

Anyone heard anything on the 08 YG PRFs for major being due in October? My exec is claiming it's not official but was passed from a buddy at AFPC.

I know that would be a large jump in dates from the 07 guys but I wouldn't be too shocked.

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Can we just enact SCODs for officers already? Can we just do this? One Closeout date for each YG period.

These shifting timings make it impossible to do the right things by people at the sqd level

Back to the drawing board to try and figure out how to get Flt/CC credit for '08 guys or to draw the line and tell the folks hey I made major without being a Flt/CC you might too.

[Bode]

Anyone heard anything on the 08 YG PRFs for major being due in October? My exec is claiming it's not official but was passed from a buddy at AFPC.

I know that would be a large jump in dates from the 07 guys but I wouldn't be too shocked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would be surprised. Maybe due within the Sqdn in October. If it was due this year it would probably be in MyPers. 

I will check MyPers tomorrow. See if there is anything.

[Duck]

According to pin on rates the '06 grads will be done pinning on by this December. If we keep pinning O-4s at the same rate, the '07 group will be done by September 2017, leaving the '08 grads starting to pin on in October 2017.

As dudes continue to punch, the O-4 boards will continue to move up. I can see stuff being due to your squadron in October, but even that seems a little early. Maybe board in March-April next year for '08?

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, 11F said:

In my corner of the 11F world, going to WIC has absolutely zero to do with an individual's career and everything to do with selecting the right individual to lead a squadron's training program for that squadron to be thee most lethal squadron in the world. The 11F WIC is way too difficult to pick someone based on anything else...they'll washout.

The MAF has always struck me as career focused instead of job focused, but I guess when you spend a bunch of time droning from point A to point B for hours on end you run out of approach plates and 11-217 to cover and you end up talking about how to get promoted? All I know is that no one talks about this career stuff in the fighter squadrons I've been in for two reasons: 1) there are too many tactical things to learn to have time to talk about someone's career (this is often to a fault) and B) you will be ridiculed for talking about this career stuff in the fighter squadron common areas because of item #1 (again often times to the detriment of careers, but few care).

WIC grads around me do the typical FS WO job followed by either teaching at Nellis or Wing Weapons. After that, it's either off to IDE/staff, get offered a 365 and go guard/reserve, or get out altogether and do something completely unrelated. I have never seen any 11F patch in my community ever be an aide/Exec at any level unless they were a graduated sq/cc, and that's to be a 4-star's Exec (the right guy being groomed to be a GO). The guys in my community who are the aides/execs are the non-patch wearers, and they are often the ones who care more about their career moves than they would ever admit (somethings are the same in every community in the USAF).

Which may be the reason the fighter community can't keep anyone in the cockpits.  300 pilots short this year?  

[Duck]

In my corner of the 11F world, going to WIC has absolutely zero to do with an individual's career and everything to do with selecting the right individual to lead a squadron's training program for that squadron to be thee most lethal squadron in the world. The 11F WIC is way too difficult to pick someone based on anything else...they'll washout.

The MAF has always struck me as career focused instead of job focused, but I guess when you spend a bunch of time droning from point A to point B for hours on end you run out of approach plates and 11-217 to cover and you end up talking about how to get promoted? All I know is that no one talks about this career stuff in the fighter squadrons I've been in for two reasons: 1) there are too many tactical things to learn to have time to talk about someone's career (this is often to a fault) and B) you will be ridiculed for talking about this career stuff in the fighter squadron common areas because of item #1 (again often times to the detriment of careers, but few care).

WIC grads around me do the typical FS WO job followed by either teaching at Nellis or Wing Weapons. After that, it's either off to IDE/staff, get offered a 365 and go guard/reserve, or get out altogether and do something completely unrelated. I have never seen any 11F patch in my community ever be an aide/Exec at any level unless they were a graduated sq/cc, and that's to be a 4-star's Exec (the right guy being groomed to be a GO). The guys in my community who are the aides/execs are the non-patch wearers, and they are often the ones who care more about their career moves than they would ever admit (somethings are the same in every community in the USAF).

Which may be the reason the fighter community can't keep anyone in the cockpits.  300 pilots short this year?  

That's a joke! They are vastly undercutting these numbers!!!

[ArcticGator]

So basically per the AMC brief, if you are to get promoted with a P to O-5 you need to have most of the following: PRF DP push, strat, CC push and SDE push along with consistent OPR strats and CC/DE pushes.

However, looking at the #s of people passed over it seems the things those people lacked the most were PRF strat, OPR strats, OPR CC pushes, and duties above wing. Those seemed to be the key, at least in AMC.

[08Dawg]

On 4/5/2016 at 2:30 AM, PlanePhlyer said:

My last base had an O-4 patch, OG Exec. Instead of leading tactics talks, he was slinging OPRs. Sad...

Same's true in the Buff world.  Many patches get maybe a year outside of WIC, then they get sucked up into various exec jobs.  Off the top of my cranium, right now there are guys less than two years out of WIC sitting in wing, NAF and MAJCOM level exec or aide jobs. 

[ArcticGator]

How much does a "super p" help the chances of promotion? Is there any kind of tracked data on that?

[Champ Kind]

1 hour ago, ArcticGator said:

How much does a "super p" help the chances of promotion? Is there any kind of tracked data on that?

There are way too many other variables to track that data.  "Super P" means nothing if there isn't a decent record of performance to back it up (i.e., strats, PME pushes, and follow-on staff recommendations that match the strat ).  It also depends a great deal on who is signing the PRF.  Not all senior raters carry the same amount of weight.  To make matters more complicated, a senior rater that would have normally done well at an MLR or CSB can be called out for shenanigans that affect his/her credibility and therefore influence the outcome of the boards.  Examples include strong positive language on a bottom line with no record to back it up, multiple "super P" or "if I had one more..." pushes amongst eligibles, or exaggerated/just plain untruthful verbiage in the narrative that board members catch.

[Chuck17]

Re: Champ - I saw the ACC/CV get up from the table at an MLR and call the Hill Wing/CC to tell him his PRFs were terrible, and that said Wing/CCs signature was about to be the reason no one from his base got promoted...

So it happens!

Chuck

[11F]

Re: Champ - I saw the ACC/CV get up from the table at an MLR and call the Hill Wing/CC to tell him his PRFs were terrible, and that said Wing/CCs signature was about to be the reason no one from his base got promoted...

So it happens!

Chuck

This^

Senior rater credibility matters, and the boards see right through any of the SR's shenanigans.

[ArcticGator]

How much does a "super p" help the chances of promotion? Is there any kind of tracked data on that?

There are way too many other variables to track that data.  "Super P" means nothing if there isn't a decent record of performance to back it up (i.e., strats, PME pushes, and follow-on staff recommendations that match the strat ).  It also depends a great deal on who is signing the PRF.  Not all senior raters carry the same amount of weight.  To make matters more complicated, a senior rater that would have normally done well at an MLR or CSB can be called out for shenanigans that affect his/her credibility and therefore influence the outcome of the boards.  Examples include strong positive language on a bottom line with no record to back it up, multiple "super P" or "if I had one more..." pushes amongst eligibles, or exaggerated/just plain untruthful verbiage in the narrative that board members catch.

Ok then let's assume the person has a solid record just short of receiving a DP and the SR has a good reputation for not speeding. In that case would "super p" make a difference or is it just fluff BS?

[Homestar]

Didn't he just say that reputation of SR + "super P" = good?

But look, bottom line is that AMC promoted like 5 dudes to Lt Col who had Ps this last board. I forget the stats AF wide.

BL on the bottom: if you have a P, you're probably not gonna get promoted to Lt Col in AMC.

[ThreeHoler]

Rock bottom line: once your PRF is signed there is no reason to even think about the board because it is worry that won't help you in any way.

[Skitzo]

What are we defining as a Super P? Definitely Promote despite a P? Most of what I've seen in AFSOC is that a P without a Definitely Promote is a "do not promote" without any deregotary in your record. I got this super P on my 2BTZ. I've also seen BTZ folks get blank PRFs as well.

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[zach braff]

5 hours ago, Skitzo said:

What are we defining as a Super P? Definitely Promote despite a P? Most of what I've seen in AFSOC is that a P without a Definitely Promote is a "do not promote" without any deregotary in your record. I got this super P on my 2BTZ. I've also seen BTZ folks get blank PRFs as well.

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A Super P is a P with a bottom line stating "if I had one more DP," "my next DP if I had one," or something to that effect - effectively making the recipient that #1 of the P stack.  They're not tracked officially, but its about the best chance of getting promoted with a P provided the records are there to back it up.

[Champ Kind]

So that's the third or fourth post pretty much saying the same thing....

In summary, get a DP, but those efforts start years before your PRF is written. If you can't pull a DP, hopefully your SR at least knows your name and you have someone in your chain of command pulling for you.

[ShavedDogsAss]

I have nothing to add, other than not wanting to see that terrible suppository picture on my phone every time I open this app.

So, here's a picture of Yeager's Starfighter instead.

[ArcticGator]

Are records at a promotion board evaluated in a random order? Are you grouped with the rest of your Senior Raters ratees? Are the records anonymous or can the board members see your name?

[D_Vezencuando]

Has anyone seen a similar scenario:

"...10 months after 2015 ratee signature and OPR Closeout, AFPC rejects document for 'unauthorized push line verbiage' then returns it Group, Squadron, and ratee for signatures."

I'll PM actual text to anyone with recent exec experience or knowledge of current eval policies.

My main reason for concern is the use of this 'unauthorized' OPR in the CY16 O-5 Board, 1ABZ at that. 

Thoughts?

[bennynova]

10 minutes ago, D_Vezencuando said:

Has anyone seen a similar scenario:

"...10 months after 2015 ratee signature and OPR Closeout, AFPC rejects document for 'unauthorized push line verbiage' then returns it Group, Squadron, and ratee for signatures."

I'll PM actual text to anyone with recent exec experience or knowledge of current eval policies.

My main reason for concern is the use of this 'unauthorized' OPR in the CY16 O-5 Board, 1ABZ at that. 

Thoughts?

oooooh

   what was this unauthorized verbiage?   PM me if you don't want it public.