Promotion and PRF Information

[Cappy70]

If you finish your AAD a month or two before a promotion board and AFIT gets the record update in then the board should see this right? How recent is the SURF that they are looking at? I know at the wing level the OG and WG/CC are looking at that info 4-5 months before the board while writing the PRF and handing out DPs and Ps. The WG/CC at my base said he does not use AADs at all as a discriminator for base strats. I'm slow rolling an AAD right now and it looks like at the current pace I'll have it done a month or two before the board. Is this enough time before the board? Obviously if I get a DP I'm not worried but if I get the P I really want that AAD on the record. Thanks.

[LockheedFix]

If you're gonna have it done, you might as well put in the extra .69% of effort and finish it 6 months earlier so there's no question of whether it's in your records or not.

[ThreeHoler]

If you finish your AAD a month or two before a promotion board and AFIT gets the record update in then the board should see this right? How recent is the SURF that they are looking at? I know at the wing level the OG and WG/CC are looking at that info 4-5 months before the board while writing the PRF and handing out DPs and Ps. The WG/CC at my base said he does not use AADs at all as a discriminator for base strats. I'm slow rolling an AAD right now and it looks like at the current pace I'll have it done a month or two before the board. Is this enough time before the board? Obviously if I get a DP I'm not worried but if I get the P I really want that AAD on the record. Thanks.

My BAC+ took about a month to update. It's been a few years, but IIRC, you have to review your preselection brief (like a SURF, but with things masked, like deployments) approximately three months before the board.

[Champ Kind]

Promotion boards don't see SURFs. They see something called a DQHB which is populated from AFPROMS. You have to ask the professional at your local MPF promotions section to see a copy of it.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Champ Kind

[Recut]

If you finish your AAD a month or two before a promotion board and AFIT gets the record update in then the board should see this right? How recent is the SURF that they are looking at? I know at the wing level the OG and WG/CC are looking at that info 4-5 months before the board while writing the PRF and handing out DPs and Ps. The WG/CC at my base said he does not use AADs at all as a discriminator for base strats. I'm slow rolling an AAD right now and it looks like at the current pace I'll have it done a month or two before the board. Is this enough time before the board? Obviously if I get a DP I'm not worried but if I get the P I really want that AAD on the record. Thanks.

Yes, they will see it as long as you complete the AFIT update. I finished my masters Oct 12 last year and our major's board was at the beginning of Dec. You will get to review a copy of the preselection brief (another form) that will reflect your academic status. I did the AFIT update the second my transcript reflected the masters and my preselection brief did show the MAS.

You can also try to attach a memo to your PRF that states you are pretty much done. That's what I did - my CC was willing to sign a memo attached to the PRF stating I was on my last class (that way the WG CC sees that while issuing DP/P). Worked for me, anyway. I did get a DP but I will never know if my last-minute work on the masters influenced it.

Just ensure it's on the preselection brief form.

[Recut]

.....a few hours. ...they print out a fresh DQHB (Duty Qualification History Brief....very much like a SURF) for everyone on the morning of the board. BL: don't worry about them looking at an old DQHB......worry about your DQHB being updated/accurate.

DQHB was what I meant with preselection brief. You get to see, update, and ensure the DQHB is correct before the board.

[Ravens52]

The DQHB that will be seen is now electronic, everything they see should...should be updated as of the day prior to the board. I had a bro who had an MFR signed by his Wg/CC stating his masters and IP upgrade would be complete by board start date to ensure he had his bases covered, even though it should have been updated. IMHO have everything complete ASAP and have it in your records if you can a few months prior to avoid any records mishaps or stress.

BL: trust but verify/cya/own your records

[DC]

... I'm slow rolling an AAD right now and it looks like at the current pace I'll have it done a month or two before the board ...

What board? There is no Maj board this year. It's posponed to a TBD date in CY2014. How do you know you'll be done a month or two before the board?

[zach braff]

If you're the type to sweat an AAD, I'd say it's more important to have it done in time for your Wg/CC to see that it's complete when he/she's allocating Ps & DPs rather than sliding it in to the board just in time. Yes, if it gets finished they'll update right up to the moment the board starts, but if you've already got a weaker PRF due to not having it done when your Wing built the PRFs it may not be as helpful.

zb

[Cappy70]

What board? There is no Maj board this year. It's posponed to a TBD date in CY2014. How do you know you'll be done a month or two before the board?

Yep I'm an 05' grad, not sure when the board is next year. I am assuming it is going to be toward the end of the CY. I'll have the AAD done in the summer but will be able to plan the timing better once they announce the actual board date. The article here says it will be delayed approximately 9 months and we will find out the actual date this summer:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/09/airforce-promotion-board-delay-092512w

If you're the type to sweat an AAD, I'd say it's more important to have it done in time for your Wg/CC to see that it's complete when he/she's allocating Ps & DPs rather than sliding it in to the board just in time. Yes, if it gets finished they'll update right up to the moment the board starts, but if you've already got a weaker PRF due to not having it done when your Wing built the PRFs it may not be as helpful.

zb

Our WG/CC does not use AADs as a discriminator for PRFs or DP/P allocation. That's great but if you still end up with a P then the AAD is going to be very important at the promotion board.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Cappy70

[DC]

Our WG/CC does not use AADs as a discriminator for PRFs or DP/P allocation. That's great but if you still end up with a P then the AAD is going to be very important at the promotion board.

When does he PCS? You have a lot riding on variables you can't control. Not that AAD is the be-all, end-all. But, if you're worried about when it will show up in your records, you'd think the sooner the better for you.

[HU&W]

Yep I'm an 05' grad, not sure when the board is next year. I am assuming it is going to be toward the end of the CY. I'll have the AAD done in the summer but will be able to plan the timing better once they announce the actual board date. The article here says it will be delayed approximately 9 months and we will find out the actual date this summer:

https://www.airforcet...d-delay-092512w

Sounds like you're trying to throw a dart at a moving target, while blindfolded, based on a news article from a semi-reputable paper that quotes a guy who says where the dartboard might be located next year. You plan has too many variables. It might work out, but it might not. The only thing that you can control is the completion date for your AAD. Just accepting the temporary pain and getting it over with is the best way to avoid a May board and a June graduation. Good luck.

[Cappy70]

When does he PCS? You have a lot riding on variables you can't control. Not that AAD is the be-all, end-all. But, if you're worried about when it will show up in your records, you'd think the sooner the better for you.

He has been in the spot for less than a year. On the Major's board that just happened a P with an AAD had a 78% promotion rate as opposed to a P with no AAD having a 48% promotion rate. I'm hoping I get a DP but I'm looking at all the different variables. I'm counting on him not looking at AADs in which case I think my record is strong to slightly strong. If I still get the P then the fade away AAD at the buzzer can save me.

Sounds like you're trying to throw a dart at a moving target, while blindfolded, based on a news article from a semi-reputable paper that quotes a guy who says where the dartboard might be located next year. You plan has too many variables. It might work out, but it might not. The only thing that you can control is the completion date for your AAD. Just accepting the temporary pain and getting it over with is the best way to avoid a May board and a June graduation. Good luck.

It may seem that way, but I'll know exactly what I will have to accomplish once they release the date of the board. I have six classes left and if I take one per session I will be done in Jun 14. If the board is past that date I should be good to go. If it is before June then I can double up on classes as required to have it before the board. Bottom line is that if the board didn't get delayed and was in Dec 13 then I would not have had my AAD done. Now I have a chance to slip one by the goalie with 3 seconds left on the clock for the OT winner. Thanks for the advice.

[Ram]

Our WG/CC does not use AADs as a discriminator for PRFs or DP/P allocation.

You believe this line? I have some oceanfront property in Kansas I'd be happy to sell you...

[Dead Last]

ENSURE you have Flt/CC somewhere on you record...

Apparently Chief of a shop doesnt count.

Its nice to be a free agent now.

[matmacwc]

You didn't know that?

[Jaded]

So was continuation offered or no?

[Vetter]

11F. Twice deferred. Continuation offered.

[Whitman]

Maybe Gen Welsh is righting this ship? Top five things for the board this year according to our Wg/CC.

1) Flt CC

2) IP time

3) Combat experience

4) AAD

5) PME

[Champ Kind]

Maybe Gen Welsh is righting this ship? Top five things for the board this year according to our Wg/CC. 1) Flt CC 2) IP time 3) Combat experience 4) AAD 5) PME

Hit & miss with what I saw with the guys that I know that were passed over.

[fishforfun]

Maybe Gen Welsh is righting this ship? Top five things for the board this year according to our Wg/CC.

1) Flt CC

2) IP time

3) Combat experience

4) AAD

5) PME

YMMV....I have 4/5 above (BAC+ only), no negatives in my records but only managed a P. Just not enough xmas parites planned I guess. Only 1 CFC POC on my resume also. Wg/CC said my 4 and 5 from above maybe were done too close to the board. The P was a surprise but not getting promoted with a P was not a surprise. Hey, I hear there is a pilot shortage on the outside so maybe I'll give that a try.

[Ravens52]

Maybe Gen Welsh is righting this ship? Top five things for the board this year according to our Wg/CC.

1) Flt CC

2) IP time

3) Combat experience

4) AAD

5) PME

What wing was this?

[silverwolf0911]

Maybe Gen Welsh is righting this ship? Top five things for the board this year according to our Wg/CC.

1) Flt CC

2) IP time

3) Combat experience

4) AAD

5) PME

How does he know? Was your Wg/CC on the promotion board? Or did the senior leaders get some kind of out brief from the board that gave them the cliff notes of how the board operated?

[C-21.Pilot]

meaningful, progressive stratifications are also considered.

[noumenon]

Maybe Gen Welsh is righting this ship? Top five things for the board this year according to our Wg/CC.

1) Flt CC

2) IP time

3) Combat experience

4) AAD

5) PME

Yes, yes...and then after the Wing all call/CGO development brief the Wing Commander could be barely contain himself...he drew a deep excited breath in as he looked around at his Squadron Commanders, smirked at the Group CC, high fived his execs, chest bumped the Vice, shrugged and said, "APRIL FOOLS!!"

At first they laughed uncomfortably, and then the laughter grew and then...hush...they all gave each other that look that reads, "ohhh yea, I feel F'in SHARP in these ABUs today!"

---

Of course I'm only kidding and do hope Gen Welsh is moving in this direction, but reading into what the Wing CC/bossman said, there could be a simple yes or no answer to these things...combat experience (yes or no)...IP time...(yes or no). More true is, Wing Executive Combat Experience SouthWasian Vacation or IP time earned while flying with a General (and another proficient IP to do all that pilot stuff). The other stuff...no change from previous boards.

I'd say your Wing Executive Pilot Officer's number one push from the Wing CC still outweighs IP time. His/her previous two executive jobs prior to getting close to the wing commander were where he or she earned was given strats based on nothing deploying tough deployments/mission execution but being willing to work in an environment where the weapon system is never discussed and making crap solid edits to you and your buddies OPRs only advances his/her PRF further. Strats...#1 strats, generally go to the Execs...and these mean a lot to a board member...often less more than being a Leader/Pilot and taking care of people as a Flight Commander. It's as easy as this...the current organizational mindset is that at some point in your life you've got to ask yourself a question and then give a retire as a flying lt col/major/MSgt career answer. The Question: Are you an Officer or a Pilot?

And for me, that's what's wrong with the Air Force--for me, that question is based on an organizational paradigm bred by folks who have worked in the halls of a five sided building for the last ten years hoping for a combat staff deployment to enhance their combat resume. Well, shoe clerks...I have news for you, we recognize that WE are the solution. We've learned to say NO, that question sucks...I'm a leader.

The warrior mindset that the air force needs going forward has already been born. The scream of the twin towers crash were our mother's birthpains. We spent the last ten years of our Laconic youth surfing on an ocean of fuel over Baghdad Babylon and Alexandria Kandahar--a storm of steel riding in from the west on a tidal wave of fuel. We've called down lightning from the mouth's of eagles, and taken parts of men to Europe to be raised like Lazarus. These and other lessons--like the look of children who won't forget the loss of their father or forget their father's time away from home--have taught enough of us that before any containers get checked we need to go to the bathroom, puke up the koolaid, look ourselves in the mirror and realize you aren't an officer or a pilot, you're YOU and by God if you aren't a LEADER it's time to find another J.O.B. to do. We are leaders first--in or out of the flight suit; in or out of the cockpit; not caring who gets the credit for mission results and pushing forward because we won't fail the dude/chick on our wing...we've learned that LEADERSHIP...in the primal, substitution/sacrifice, servant, fall on a grenade to save your men sense of the word is who we are. And no matter how many different schemes the shoe clerks come up with or how many stones the pentagonal freemasons build into our career pyramids, the collective memory of a generation will be carried forward--much the same way it was for Leonidas Gen Welsh, so if he can do anything to turn the tide, all the better. But I know, much as he does, that the best is yet to come...just hold the gap, the immortal politicians are making a run at us now.

You want to get promoted be a leader: be so good at your primary, secondary and additional job (whatever you do) that dudes under you and above you ask you the hard questions and verify information with you, only do things you WANT to do and then be extremely good at them, be such a good person to everyone you come in contact with that they want to be around you again because they know how good of an influence you are on them, most importantly SERVE others. After you get those fundamentals down, then go about the business of asking yourself the hard questions...do I care enough about the future of my country to put aside my hatred of what I am about to do in order to remain relevant in this climate. And yes, though it hurts me to say it...that might mean being an exec or doing a masters degree...do something to be given a DP. Finally, don't ever think you've earned it or are better than your bros...luck and timing make up about 69% of everything related to promotion.

/rant

Edited April 2, 2013 by noumenon