Promotion and PRF Information

[ThreeHoler]

Data point: 11M, patch, 11 years in ops squadrons, 1000+ combat hours, clean record, highly effective instructor, NATO staff.....not selected.
Any doubts on what the USAF values?

Minus the patch part, I can name at least 5 individuals in the KC-10 community with similar stats who were not selected for O-5 on the last 3-4 boards. All of them are people I would follow into combat.

I can also name several who were selected for O-5...I would never follow them into combat except for morbid curiosity. Thankfully all of them are stuck on staff for the rest of their careers.

[hatedont]

35 minutes ago, di1630 said:

Geeezus...but have you planned an Xmas party?

This would be like Apple telling the engineers who design the next iPhone that they have a statistically worse shot at advancement than the person who line up food services or orders copy machine paper for the company.

I'm appalled. I've been telling pilots on the fence to stick around as things are improving. I'm thinking I might be out to f-cking lunch.


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You are that crusty guy with all the knowledge. I let the Lts know what is going on and you have to do whats best for you.

I tell them straight up I did not take the bonus. A 5 year bonus isn't the answer anymore. I don't care about being a Lt Col when my IPZ is in 2019. I'll be at my 19 year mark (prior E..4 years). I'm that guy who wont do ACSC either because I'm tired of school.

A capt I mentored as a Lt when I was his Flt/CC told the CC he is getting out. I said noooooooo! Don't ever show your hand. He was like I know you told me not to say anything. I know why he spilled the beans. As a Flt/CC he is trying to implement changes and he doesn't see eye to eye with the boss. I'm like man, you have to pick your battles. If a CC doesn't want to make his organization better you should accept it and move on. Dont take it personally or stress about it. That's why I admire this capt because these are the leadership types we need.

Edited May 25, 2017 by hatedont

[soupafly06]

In all seriousness how are your communities treating passed over O-4s?  Are they the crusty, experienced IPs/EPs dispensing wisdom to the ever increasing inexperienced young 'uns or are they the punching bags picking up every crap detail and 365?  I say this being a passed over dude myself. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by soupafly06
Clarity meant O-4 not O-5

[WeTheSheeple]

57 minutes ago, Lstcause257 said:

So how do you become the individual that is IDE complete w/ a DP and not get selected?


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From what I've seen in the past, senior raters try to use their [edit: excess] DPs to push through good folks who otherwise wouldn't get a serious look--too many years flying the line (especially in the same Sq), or Art 15/LOR for shenanigans as a CGO. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by WeTheSheeple

[MooseAg03]

Someone tell me how Mission Support and Non-Rated Ops without IDE complete were promoted at significantly higher rates. I would think those who aren't on the road 200 days a year would have less of an excuse to get PME done and should be punished on the promotion board.


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[WeTheSheeple]

5 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

Someone tell me how Mission Support and Non-Rated Ops without IDE complete were promoted at significantly higher rates. I would think those who aren't on the road 200 days a year would have less of an excuse to get PME done and should be punished on the promotion board.


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Most likely selects off the O-4 board just finishing ACSC. AETC student board gives most folks a P, even the shiny pennies. 

[MDDieselPilot]

Can someone point me to the actual list?  I feel like a dumbazz.. it's not front page on my.af.mil (why aren't officer promotions ever posted there, yet E's always are?) and I can't seem to find it on mypers.

[Steve C]

1 minute ago, MDDieselPilot said:

Can someone point me to the actual list?  I feel like a dumbazz.. it's not front page on my.af.mil (why aren't officer promotions ever posted there, yet E's always are?) and I can't seem to find it on mypers.

MyPERS>Promotion>Promotion Select Lists>LAF>0517A

... or something like that.  

[Waingro]

8 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

Someone tell me how Mission Support and Non-Rated Ops without IDE complete were promoted at significantly higher rates. I would think those who aren't on the road 200 days a year would have less of an excuse to get PME done and should be punished on the promotion board.


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1. Not a statistically significant sample size, less than 20 for either.

2. MXG and MSG O4s usually meet their IPZ board on their first, or sometimes second squadron command. Any flyer is, at most, an ADO in this window. 

3. MX and support organizations absolutely dominate flying organizations in terms of OPRs, awards, decs, and PRFs. Unfortunate but true.

4. The USAF promotes (or claims to) based on potential to serve in the next higher grade. Viewed through that lens, strafing a Taliban stronghold and saving an Army platoon carries less weight than leading a squadron of 200 Airmen. Unfortunate, but true. The USAF doesn't make this a secret though, yet we (aircrew) still suck at writing for success. 

 

[MDDieselPilot]

Jebus man.. as an 11M (no patch) in a shit staff job, that's not good to hear.

Quote

Data point: 11M, patch, 11 years in ops squadrons, 1000+ combat hours, clean record, highly effective instructor, NATO staff.....not selected.

Any doubts on what the USAF values?

Edited May 25, 2017 by MDDieselPilot

[hatedont]

18 minutes ago, Waingro said:

1. Not a statistically significant sample size, less than 20 for either.

2. MXG and MSG O4s usually meet their IPZ board on their first, or sometimes second squadron command. Any flyer is, at most, an ADO in this window. 

3. MX and support organizations absolutely dominate flying organizations in terms of OPRs, awards, decs, and PRFs. Unfortunate but true.

4. The USAF promotes (or claims to) based on potential to serve in the next higher grade. Viewed through that lens, strafing a Taliban stronghold and saving an Army platoon carries less weight than leading a squadron of 200 Airmen. Unfortunate, but true. The USAF doesn't make this a secret though, yet we (aircrew) still suck at writing for success. 

 

Great pass down. But if you have no pilots, then those mx and support stats become meaningless. They go hand in hand. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by hatedont

[HU&W]

3 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Data point: 11M, patch, 11 years in ops squadrons, 1000+ combat hours, clean record, highly effective instructor, NATO staff.....not selected.

Any doubts on what the USAF values?

I hope we never have another major war.  With the way we treat our warriors, hope may be the only defense that remains.

[Weezer]

4 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

How did you come to this conclusion?  There hasn't been anything posted to static reports yet.

MS historically outperforms the other categories in IPZ.  Pilots usually come out way ahead on BPZ.

[Homestar]

5 hours ago, Steve C said:

MyPERS>Promotion>Promotion Select Lists>LAF>0517A

... or something like that.  

Or type CY17A is the search bar. It's the top result. 

[Guardian]

Goldfien is an idiot. And so is the AF if MX, MSG, SF, etc get any of the top 15% of the wing king strats. What is the AF thinking? Break 11x's into their own promotion category.


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[Guardian]

My buddy said MPF is telling him no to TERA


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[gimmeaplane]

Disappointed and helplessly observing good people not making the cut.

Somebody asked me in the last RIF (I was eligible) if I worried, assuming that I wasn't because I had stumbled (luck & timing) into a "high-vis" job.  I told them hell yes I was worried.  The AF doesn't cut 30% without making big mistakes.  The mission in a leadership role, right after the actual mission, is pimping out the good people as well as possible.  'Cuz somebody else is pushing an asshole (no sts).  All it takes is one bad rater in one assignment to completely F this system in an unrecoverable way for a good officer.  If I have a point, it's this: learn the game for your ratees' sakes.

Sidenote: I knew a sharp dude, was his Gp/CC's #1 FGO, and got cut in that RIF.  Big Blue makes mistakes.

[gimmeaplane]

7 hours ago, Weezer said:

MS historically outperforms the other categories in IPZ.  Pilots usually come out way ahead on BPZ.

That is true, and likewise for DE select status.  It is the Air Force, after all.

[Bender]

Data point: 11M, patch, 11 years in ops squadrons, 1000+ combat hours, clean record, highly effective instructor, NATO staff.....not selected.
Any doubts on what the USAF values?

Please tell me that data point is not you.

Bendy


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[hatedont]

7 minutes ago, gimmeaplane said:

Disappointed and helplessly observing good people not making the cut.

Somebody asked me in the last RIF (I was eligible) if I worried, assuming that I wasn't because I had stumbled (luck & timing) into a "high-vis" job.  I told them hell yes I was worried.  The AF doesn't cut 30% without making big mistakes.  The mission in a leadership role, right after the actual mission, is pimping out the good people as well as possible.  'Cuz somebody else is pushing an asshole (no sts).  All it takes is one bad rater in one assignment to completely F this system in an unrecoverable way for a good officer.  If I have a point, it's this: learn the game for your ratees' sakes.

Sidenote: I knew a sharp dude, was his Gp/CC's #1 FGO, and got cut in that RIF.  Big Blue makes mistakes.

Don't they RIF the people with negative indicators first, especially officers? DUIs, PT fails..etc. In 2011, I had two friends RIF'd. One for a DUI and the other for a PI at UPT. The PI was after the club was let out, and the cops swept up lots of people in Del Rio. Anyway, the cops called him a model to mimic. He completed UPT and went on to fly tankers. 

[gimmeaplane]

2 minutes ago, hatedont said:

Don't they RIF the people with negative indicators first, especially officers? DUIs, PT fails..etc. In 2011, I had two friends RIF'd. One for a DUI and the other for a PI at UPT. The PI was after the club was let out, and the cops swept up lots of people in Del Rio. Anyway, the cops called him a model to mimic. He completed UPT and went on to fly tankers. 

If you cut/non-promote enough people, you'll run out of negative indicators pretty quickly.  Also, most of those peeps will take hint and separate on their own.  And you nailed it with an example of how some negative indicators are BS.

[The_Vandall]

My buddy said MPF is telling him no to TERA

Quick question- was he offered continuation?

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[matmacwc]

4 minutes ago, The_Vandall said:

 

Quick question- was he offered continuation?

Sent from my R1 HD using Baseops Network Forums mobile app
 

 

For the love of......don't take it!

[hatedont]

10 minutes ago, gimmeaplane said:

If you cut/non-promote enough people, you'll run out of negative indicators pretty quickly.  Also, most of those peeps will take hint and separate on their own.  And you nailed it with an example of how some negative indicators are BS.

After almost 17 years active, I mostly drink in my house. But still flip flop on the questionnaire from flight medicine on whether I drink or not. I don't drink at any squadron functions. If I drink out with my old lady, her teen comes to pick us up.

[SurelySerious]

1. Not a statistically significant sample size, less than 20 for either.
2. MXG and MSG O4s usually meet their IPZ board on their first, or sometimes second squadron command. Any flyer is, at most, an ADO in this window. 
3. MX and support organizations absolutely dominate flying organizations in terms of OPRs, awards, decs, and PRFs. Unfortunate but true.
4. The USAF promotes (or claims to) based on potential to serve in the next higher grade. Viewed through that lens, strafing a Taliban stronghold and saving an Army platoon carries less weight than leading a squadron of 200 Airmen. Unfortunate, but true. The USAF doesn't make this a secret though, yet we (aircrew) still suck at writing for success. 
 

Yet again more evidence promotions should be separated by AFSC types.