Promotion and PRF Information

[Snooter]

28 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

I'll fight, but only if we don't keep score and both get trophies.


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As if there was any other way?

[08Dawg]

Aaaaaaaaaand......'08 board release pushed back again.  From the bomber functional at AFPC, expect it out "by the end of the month".  Something about finishing up public affairs guidance....which only adds to the suspicion of a major change and they're figuring out how to sell it...

For real though....WTF, AFPC assholes??  Can you not stick to your own stated timelines for once??  This is now what ,the third or fourth time it's been pushed back?  "Yeah, sir, that TOT I gave you....I can't make it...oops, still can't make it....ok, one more time....you really didn't want those bombs on target on time, did you?"

[Duck]

Has anyone on this forum seen the list?


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[tkc10chief]

24 minutes ago, 08Dawg said:

Aaaaaaaaaand......'08 board release pushed back again.  From the bomber functional at AFPC, expect it out "by the end of the month".  Something about finishing up public affairs guidance....which only adds to the suspicion of a major change and they're figuring out how to sell it...

For real though....WTF, AFPC assholes??  Can you not stick to your own stated timelines for once??  This is now what ,the third or fourth time it's been pushed back?  "Yeah, sir, that TOT I gave you....I can't make it...oops, still can't make it....ok, one more time....you really didn't want those bombs on target on time, did you?"

At this rate people will pin on before the results even come out. 

[dream big]

9 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

TL;DR: We like to think that pilots have to run the Air Force, but they got us into this mess.

What other conclusion is left to be drawn? With very few exceptions, the Air Force is helmed up and down the chain by pilots. Groups, wings, NAFs, MAJCOMs, staff positions, functionals, CAOC spots, deployed units, IGs... Lots and lots of pilots. Who is responsible for the failings of an organization if not for the leaders? How many excuses are we supposed to make for them? And let's not play the "good dude" game either. Being a successful organizational leader is not about how fun you were to drink with 10 years ago, or how sh*t-hot you were in the jet, or how much you "get it" when you're having a closed door town hall with a random unit in their bar heritage room. There is only one measure-- how is the organization doing. 

The examples are legion. I'll give a few that have, over the years, stood out as very distilled, specific instances of poor leadership.

1. DV visits. If I had a dollar for every DV that said they didn't want the base to stop doing it's mission to prepare for their arrival after they arrived, you'd think I was paying my way through medical school the old fashioned way. If you can't fathom the way your rank and position affect your subordinates in an organization you've been a part of for 30+ years, on what planet should you be leading it? Can we all just finally admit that yes, they do want it? They like it a lot. Even if not for themselves, then for what they believe the military should look like. But most likely because that type of treatment is addictive. Name one theory of leadership taught in any level of PME that promotes the type of behavior we see when senior leaders visit a base. Did they skip those classes? Because I have a f*cking masters degree in it from ACSC. 

2. We have been at the Deid since what? 2002? I have no clue. A long time. And of those years, every. single. summer. has been excruciatingly hot. Yet somehow, despite there being an airport right down the road in the exact same climate with hundreds of flights per day, leadership at AUAB has not figured out how to get every plane suitable air conditioning for the preflight. Seriously? Some flight doc measured the internal surfaces of the aircraft at over 160F, and the air temp inside a boom pod at over 140. This isn't a war against the Axis in an austere location, it's normal ops. If you can't look at that as a leader (and one who has flown planes!) and deduce that there should be adequate cooling for the aircraft... RyanAir is the human equivalent of a Pakistani poultry trailer without the rights activists, yet they manage to keep the planes cool on the ground. Oh, and let's not forget about the black mold that no leader saw fit to address until Congress heard about it. 

3. Of course, the pilot crisis. And not that it happened, not the years of neglect that led up to it, not the countless forums and round-tables, and hangar-flies that went ignored, while the CGO/Maj force screamed for attention. I actually understand how we got to where we are today. What I don't get is how now that the problem exists, announced, published, and even presented to congress, how can we still be bungling the response? This thread is proof. Changes to the promotion process? Secret. Timeline? Mystery. People who apply for the bonus early? Gotcha! 

I'm not saying pilots can't make great organizational leaders. I'm sure some are great. But we have two things to compare:

A. That a war-fighting organization can be effectively led by selecting from a small percentage of the overall population (pilots) those who demonstrate over the first half of their career a talent for paperwork, physical fitness, administrative tasks, and personal presentation, but who generally have little to no experience leading people until squadron command. This, as of today, is an unproven theory. 

B. That a war-fighting organization led by a small percentage of the overall population (pilots) who demonstrated over the first half of their career a talent for paperwork, physical fitness, administrative tasks, and personal presentation, but who generally have little to no experience leading people until squadron command, will crumble under external pressures, e.g., Congressional inquiries, workforce competition, etc. This, as of today, is supported by the evidence. 

If pilots make such great organizational leaders, I'd love to see it. Check rides aren't graded on who had the best attitude. I'd rather choke that go through it, but I'm guessing WIC grads, the best of our pilots, didn't get their patch because they filled out the 781s better than anyone else. No one cares how your flight suit looks if you show up the the ARCP late. The flying world, last I checked, prides itself of results-based assessment, yet when it comes to leading the organization, we abandon the principal for proclamations of past dudeliness... At some point we have to assign responsibility. If you want to say that it's just because we are picking the wrong pilots for the job, fine, but guess what? Pilots are the ones doing the picking. Pilots are the ones who have signed off on our ludicrous promotions system. Pilots are the ones standing by silently while the legal system is twisted to suit the preferences of a vindictive wing commander. Pilots are the ones telling congress it's pretty darn good. Pilots are the ones telling young captains to quit if they don't like it, someone will gladly replace them. 

Please, tell me why I'm wrong. 

I agree with everything you said except blaming it on pilots.  Shoeclerks and weakling leaders are responsible for ruining the Air Force, and "shoe clerk" is independent of AFSC.  Some of the best and worst leaders I've seen have been Pilots.

Many of the issues I have with the Air Force is the lack of mission focus, where the CE commander whining that we aren't doing enough Chem gear exercises takes place over the OG advocating for the flying that should take place while copilots and half the IPs can't land the airplane.   In my opinion, the pilot corps has been neutered.  It's not about fly fight and win anymore.  It's about political correctness, queep and BS that has nothing to do with flying. 

In an organization charged with flying airplanes into combat, who else do you suggest lead the Air Force? I don't think pilots are the issue.

 

[dream big]

6 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Your profile states your birthday is 1/23/1981.  Like it or not, by most definitions, you are a millennial. 

Mellenial is less of when you were born and more of an attitude; much like (sorry to start to beat a dead horse) shoeclerk is not AFSC specific but an attitude. 

[HossHarris]

While laying blame for the entire crisis, please keep in mind that not all pilots that fly fighters are fighter pilots. And most of those clowns get promoted on up. 

[BashiChuni]

10 hours ago, di1630 said:

The best leadership for the Air Force is rooted in the pilot community....unfortunately "most" of the best pilot leaders are in the guard already or not on a path in the AD system to be in control.

Sad fact, the system doesn't promote the best leaders into leadership...which is why you see the kid who got picked on his whole life until he figured out that he could join the USAF, fill some squares and be the mfwic.

Most of the great pilots and bros I respected when I was a LT are gone...many of the ones I saw as ass-kissing careerist, risk adverse square fillers are now the decision makers you are blaming for the USAF woes.

There are still some great ones though.




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2

[Truman08]

5 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

Aaaaaaaaaand......'08 board release pushed back again.  From the bomber functional at AFPC, expect it out "by the end of the month". 

Confirmed by another functional. 

Edit: 18 July expected release date (allegedly)

Edited July 10, 2017 by Truman08

[Steve C]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

... while copilots and half the IPs can't land the airplane.  

What community are you in?

[dream big]

33 minutes ago, Steve C said:

What community are you in?

Was in the C-130H...so many issues there with proficiency and MX rates, in the J now and life is much better. 

[Craftsman]

If any 09 guys are looking for a push line for there PRF.

#1 choice for Delta or SWA! Name is a proven cmbt pilot and exceptional ldr; DNP, offer CJO & make FO this board!

Edit: UAL or AA or anyone else as you see fit to fill the white space.


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[pawnman]

On 8/11/2006 at 5:31 PM, Guest e3racing said:

Is there any pilots here that did not get a DP, but just a "p" on their PRF and still made major? Just curious at what this rate is roughly. Im in a platform where im going to compete with backend people for a DP and curious of what my chance of making major are if i only get a "p"

 

Thanks

 

[ 01. September 2006, 19:29: Message edited by: Toro ]

WSO, but I was the #1 "P" and I made it.

 

Dammit, responding eleven years later. That's what I get for using my phone instead of a computer.

Edited July 11, 2017 by pawnman

[nsplayr]

10 minutes ago, pawnman said:

WSO, but I was the #1 "P" and I made it.

 

Dammit, responding eleven years later. That's what I get for using my phone instead of a computer.

e3racing sends his thanks from 35,000 feet on the Newark to Atlanta leg!

[Guest]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2006 at 1:31 AM, Guest e3racing said:

Is there any pilots here that did not get a DP, but just a "p" on their PRF and still made major? Just curious at what this rate is roughly. Im in a platform where im going to compete with backend people for a DP and curious of what my chance of making major are if i only get a "p"

 

Thanks

 

[ 01. September 2006, 19:29: Message edited by: Toro ]

Out of 5 IPZ in my Sq and YG, only 2 DPs but all got Promoted.

[Snuggie]

An article on the AF portal has been updated with the O-4 board public release date: 18 July. The AFPC website has not been updated as of an hour ago.


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[Duck]

When do you guys think that the Wing Commanders will get the promotion results? Today?


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[Guest]

When do you guys think that the Wing Commanders will get the promotion results? Today?


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Duck, you just can't wait to turn down continuation, can you?


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[Duck]

Duck, you just can't wait to turn down continuation, can you?


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I feel like I am winning the lottery brother. I can't wait to get out of here.


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[herkbum]

Doesn't show at all


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[Duck]

Doesn't show at all


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I'll try to act a little more excited next time.


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[Guest]

I feel like I am winning the lottery brother. I can't wait to get out of here.


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The only thing that could make it sweeter is if A1/AFPC goes full retard with regards to pilot manning and doesn't offer continuation, then you get some nice involuntary sep pay as you sprint out the door.


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[Duck]

The only thing that could make it sweeter is if A1/AFPC goes full retard with regards to pilot manning and doesn't offer continuation, then you get some nice involuntary sep pay as you sprint out the door.


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At this point I am willing to pay the AF.


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[Craftsman]

https://www.jqpublicblog.com/air-force-eliminates-school-selection-o-4-promotion-boards/

While I am absolutely confident this is the right decision, I am equally confident a good portion of our officer corps will be skeptical. Given all the turmoil and instability of the past several years, trust in senior leadership on these issues is not high.


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[Homestar]

10 minutes ago, Craftsman said:

https://www.jqpublicblog.com/air-force-eliminates-school-selection-o-4-promotion-boards/

While I am absolutely confident this is the right decision, I am equally confident a good portion of our officer corps will be skeptical. Given all the turmoil and instability of the past several years, trust in senior leadership on these issues is not high.


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Well, as we all know, step #1 is recognizing you have a problem. 

This will be interesting to see play out. Prior to this the O-4 board has represented a giant off-ramp with limited opportunities to regain professional traction. Hopefully this changes things. But, as General Goldfein notes, I am skeptical the Air Force can pull it off.