Promotion and PRF Information

[FourFans]

5 hours ago, pawnman said:

It works less well when you have an airman or A1C less than a year out of BMT and who still barely has a grasp adult life, let alone the expectations of the Air Force.

I disagree.  Just because someone doesn't know how to adult yet doesn't mean we should lower the bar.  We keep the bar high, and teach that kid how to meet it.  One the backside (FGOs and SNCOs), this plan requires that the "adults" are squared away.  If you lower the bar for one, you lower it for all...which is what's happening across our force right now.

Keep the bar high and swhack old guys that don't meet it in order to show the way for the young ones.  The kids need the visual lesson.  The senior people should know better. 

Teach through example, instruct with credibility, mentor with wisdom, never coddle.

[17D_guy]

On 5/6/2018 at 6:52 PM, pawnman said:

Well, you have to understand that as a 17D, he does not have the same kind of people working for him that you have working for you.  "You're all adults and professionals" works well in squadrons that are predominantly officer, in AFSCs that already require discipline and attention to detail.  It works less well when you have an airman or A1C less than a year out of BMT and who still barely has a grasp adult life, let alone the expectations of the Air Force.

We don't call it weaponized Autism for nothing.

19 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

I disagree.  Just because someone doesn't know how to adult yet doesn't mean we should lower the bar. 

Teach through example, instruct with credibility, mentor with wisdom, never coddle.

Sure.  Having walked the halls of Ops Sq's the culture is in the air.  The expectation is worn on your patches on the pajamas all us non-air-breathing-operators crave.  Everyone knows that the aircrew have spent X years training, flying, fighting.  You guys have Sq bars, you're segregated from the rest of the AF by sheer pinnacle of your achievement.  As I think you should be, you've earned it.

I don't have that in a normal Comm Sq.  I've got Airmen who never touched a computer besides MS Office for school that are working the core servers, all the way up to the guy who failed a credit short of a CS degree because he almost went pro in Fortnite.  I've got officers who are geology/english majors who got Cyber because "needs of the Air Force."  This is on par with the bros who signed up for real flying and got RPA's...but they have to "lead" Amn that are about the same age.

How many officers in a Ops sq you know that can't get to work on time?  I've had to separate 3 Amn for that.  I had to deal with 4 sexual assault cases at the same time, when those finally wrapped up 3 pissed hot.

So, the 17D that @HarleyQuinn mentions comes off as a douche from that single statement.  I don't agree with ordering it...but it's nice to not get blindsided by some idiot failing at the last minute and having to report it to a douche Wing CC who thinks PT's the pinnacle of leadership.  Which is where we been for about a decade. 

1 story to kinda illustrate - Airman shithead was late to duty on a Saturday.  Boss found him asleep in his car...suspicion of drinking.  On Monday we (Super and I) pull him in for a conversation.  I order him to stay silent (not self-incriminate), and tell him our suspicions and run him through the consequences.  I tell him about the options to driving while intoxicated, and ask him to be a professional, he's a needed team member, etc.  I release him to his supervisor and superintendent.

2 weeks later DUI.

[BashiChuni]

17D....bro all I can muster up is keep up the good fight. You have my respect sir!

[HarleyQuinn]

2 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

So, the 17D that @HarleyQuinn mentions comes off as a douche from that single statement.  I don't agree with ordering it...but it's nice to not get blindsided by some idiot failing at the last minute and having to report it to a douche Wing CC who thinks PT's the pinnacle of leadership.  Which is where we been for about a decade. 

The 17D in question was prior enlisted like myself and we became buds in AFROTC.  I'm proud of him because he will make Lt Col. But after reading his PRF, I was like who the hell wins FGO and CGO of the year 4 damn times? This is one reason why flyers are not being promoted. Padding the old awards. I would assume flyers like myself would have more flying medals to offset any awards. The promotion board typically gets it right from what I hear so it's cool.

My CC and I look for officers who constantly submit themselves for awards.  We shred packages for people who don't deserve an award period. I advise my CC to give these selfish individuals feedback and he sure as hell does. But there is a thin line too. Some guys are trying to take care of themselves because who else is going to take care of you if you have been boned by big blue before? 

2 weeks later and a DUI? Bruh...I reached into an airmans heart after his second speeding ticket on his motorcycle. I had him in tears. I have only had to do that once in 17 years. I know I saved his life because he was on the need for speed death trap.

Edited May 8, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[FourFans]

4 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

We don't call it weaponized Autism for nothing.

...

2 weeks later DUI.

Dude. 

That sounds like a command challenge of the highest order.  My heart goes out to you.  Hang tough.

For posterity, my post was not intentionally focused on, or from, an ops perspective.  I guess the perspective comes through simply because of my background. 

I'm left with the question: Is anyone inside the 17D career field trying to make a culture of excellence?  No doubt working with a gene pool as broad and deep (and quite shallow in some parts from what you say) is an overwhelming obstacle.  But is anyone telling these kids they're worth the time invested?  It sounds like you are and a select few others are, but is there a culture shift in progress in your favor? 

Because there should be. 

If there is anywhere we need to be building that culture from the ground up, it's in cyber and comm.  The idea that "no one does this as well as we do" seems like it would need to be foundational for one of those squadrons.  Unfortunately, is sounds like a lot of mismanagement and poor senior leadership instead of empowered leaders and peers who are waking these young knuckleheads up at 6 AM to run, not because they're warriors, but because discipline is critical, and contagious. 

Thanks for the course correction, I didn't realize the scope of the quality control challenges you guys are facing.  Weaponized autism.  Copy.

Perspective adjusted.

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

The 17D in question was prior enlisted like myself and we became buds in AFROTC.  I'm proud of him because he will make Lt Col. But after reading his PRF, I was like who the hell wins FGO and CGO of the year 4 damn times? This is one reason why flyers are not being promoted. Padding the old awards. I would assume flyers like myself would have more flying medals to offset any awards. The promotion board typically gets it right from what I hear so it's cool.

My CC and I look for officers who constantly submit themselves for awards.  We shred packages for people who don't deserve an award period. I advise my CC to give these selfish individuals feedback and he sure as hell does. But there is a thin line too. Some guys are trying to take care of themselves because who else is going to take care of you if you have been boned by big blue before? 

2 weeks later and a DUI? Bruh...I reached into an airmans heart after his second speeding ticket on his motorcycle. I had him in tears. I have only had to do that once in 17 years. I know I saved his life because he was on the need for speed death trap.

They are definitely just trying to take care of themselves, especially when the guys passed over to Lt Col on the IPZ board are told things like "It's because you didn't have enough FGO awards in your record".

You better believe I'm putting in a 1206 every damn quarter for an FGO award.

[nsplayr]

11 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

I had to deal with 4 sexual assault cases at the same time, when those finally wrapped up 3 pissed hot.

Phew! Glad those two things were entirely separate. I thought we might be dealing with an R. Kelly-type situation here...

[tac airlifter]

17D I'm glad you post here bro.  Keep doing it.  

[17D_guy]

18 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

I'm left with the question: Is anyone inside the 17D career field trying to make a culture of excellence?  No doubt working with a gene pool as broad and deep (and quite shallow in some parts from what you say) is an overwhelming obstacle.  But is anyone telling these kids they're worth the time invested?  It sounds like you are and a select few others are, but is there a culture shift in progress in your favor? 

Because there should be.

Oh yea.  Wedge at 24 AF is pushing it hard.  Youv'e got that in a lot of the no-kidding Cyber Ops Sq's.  On the DODIN/Base Support side...not as much.  They've jacked with the career-fields and capabilities for about a decade straight.  Hard to keep that and build up a culture of excellence.  Plus, you can go from a hard charging kill our enemies unit to a Comm Sq...because we're all 17D cores.  Think about that one for awhile and how that plays in with the folks who don't want to hack, and then the folks who don't want to do mission support!

It's very slow going as we've got a wide array of senior leaders who think that putting Amn on "crew rest" counts as making them operators, but not holding them accountable for not executing an order because they think (as a SrA) they've got a better idea.

I'm off to a legit kill the bad guys unit soon, so I'll be dipping out of the Win10 upgrades and such for at least a couple of years!  Hopefully I'll pin on Maj sometime during this stint.

[HarleyQuinn]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:32 AM, pawnman said:

They are definitely just trying to take care of themselves, especially when the guys passed over to Lt Col on the IPZ board are told things like "It's because you didn't have enough FGO awards in your record".

You better believe I'm putting in a 1206 every damn quarter for an FGO award.

If it's not the number of FGO awards, the programs and amount of money you oversee will be the next discriminator. I swore my buddies package said something like a billion dollars. He just counted the price of every satellite we ever launched. Oh and he managed 300 EKIAs, but only deployed once. I don't even think some task forces kill that many dudes.

Edited May 10, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[FourFans]

5 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

I'm off to a legit kill the bad guys unit soon, so I'll be dipping out of the Win10 upgrades and such for at least a couple of years!  Hopefully I'll pin on Maj sometime during this stint.

Brother, I'm glad we've got guys like you.  Keep at it and thanks for keeping it real.  Appreciate your insight.  Hope you can keep posting here at your next assignment.

[17D_guy]

14 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

 I swore my buddies package said something like a billion dollars. He just counted the price of every satellite we every launched.

Damnit...I should have done that.

[Skitzo]

My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

[matmacwc]

11 minutes ago, Skitzo said:

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

10 years from now you’ll disagree with that statement.

[Seriously]

8 hours ago, Skitzo said:

My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

strat juggling at it's finest.

[Steve C]

10 hours ago, Skitzo said:

My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

You got the silver bullet...you'll get promoted.  

[jrizzell]

My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

That’s a decent push line, the “if I had one more” statement is normally a positive indicator to the board

[bennynova]

In all honesty, it depends on what the rest of your PRF looks like.  

[tac airlifter]

Skitzo are you APZ or IPZ?  If IPZ I think you’re a shoe-in.  If APZ and no derogatory information, I think you have a better than 50% chance.

[Homestar]

Generally for O-5: IPZ w/DP = 100% promote. IPZ w/P = 50% promote. IPZ w/super P (If I had one more DP to give...) = Most likely promote. Maybe 75% chance? 

[Skitzo]

Skitzo are you APZ or IPZ?  If IPZ I think you’re a shoe-in.  If APZ and no derogatory information, I think you have a better than 50% chance.

 

ITZ

 

2x FGO OTY at Sq level. #2 as FGO PRO OTY at the Group Level. FGO OTQ at the GP level. Numerous category 1b levil strats. 2/7 squadron ccs and 2/14 joint O4s

 

Two squadron commands under my belt while deployed. Currently commanding 130 folks in Maintenance Operations.

 

Absolutely no overall major strats.

 

[Danger41]

1 hour ago, Skitzo said:

 

ITZ

 

2x FGO OTY at Sq level. #2 as FGO PRO OTY at the Group Level. FGO OTQ at the GP level. Numerous category 1b levil strats. 2/7 squadron ccs and 2/14 joint O4s

 

Two squadron commands under my belt while deployed. Currently commanding 130 folks in Maintenance Operations.

 

Absolutely no overall major strats.

 

Yeah, but did you get the cream to sugar ratio correct on your aide tour?

Clearly not ready for the big leagues.

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 

ITZ

 

2x FGO OTY at Sq level. #2 as FGO PRO OTY at the Group Level. FGO OTQ at the GP level. Numerous category 1b levil strats. 2/7 squadron ccs and 2/14 joint O4s

 

Two squadron commands under my belt while deployed. Currently commanding 130 folks in Maintenance Operations.

 

Absolutely no overall major strats.

 

Your chances look good.  The command bullets you've got and the "super P" push are foundational for the current promotion climate.  What kind of command push did you get?  "Ready for command now" or something to that degree is good.  If it's something along the lines of "on track to command", that communicates that you're not ready yet in the eyes of that rater.

My frame of reference is once passed over (about to be twice based on my current PRF) ops guy.  WIC, Det/CC, good strats, but never sat gp/wg exec, didn't get good PRF strats nor command pushes for various opaque "command decision" reasons.  I've been through the counseling.  The command push and command potential is what seems to be the current flavor of the week for the promotion boards.

From what I've been told and what I've seen, your super P and your demonstrated command capability should land you with about a 75% chance or greater. 

Note: If you haven't don't the primary mission of the USAF recently, that will not hurt you at all.

[tac airlifter]

Skitzo you’ll make O-5.  If for no other reason simply because you used the term “catagory 1b level strat” which I’m not sure what it is, but sounds like something O-5s should know.  

Seriously though, you’ll be fine.  What you’re describing sounds like what an average board member puts in the “yes” pile.... assuming no derogatory info.

Edited May 14, 2018 by tac airlifter

[xaarman]

https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/

 

Any O-6s or HPOs care to weigh in on the above? Obviously I left well before the level of discussion in the article, but is the O-6 exodus as bad as he makes it out to be? I knew higher ranks were Political (as is being an Officer in general) but he makes it sound like it's more tribal than a country club in the deep south.