Promotion and PRF Information

[olevelo]

When talking about command pushes, is there a massive difference between saying “ready for command now” in the first half of the push, versus “Sq/CC next” in the second half?

[HarleyQuinn]

2 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

I’m guessing it’s the pre-op hormones they have him taking.

I thought TriCare stopped paying for those? 

[BashiChuni]

8 hours ago, Duck said:

Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man.

Stressed out about making major I guess

[bennynova]

At least Bashi has a sense of humor to go along with the doldrums he brings 🙂

[matmacwc]

I think it’s funny Bashi talks like a 12 year old playing Call is Duty whilst drunk.

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

I think it’s funny Bashi talks like a 12 year old playing Call is Duty fortnite whilst drunk.

fify

its the rage among all millennials.

 

 

[Lord Ratner]

Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man.

But in an awkward, PYB way...

[Duck]

Stressed out about making major I guess

You’re gonna be okay man. I mean by the time you hit your Majors board, it will be back to 85%.

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

15 hours ago, Duck said:

Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man.

But in an awkward, PYB way...

don't put that evil on me...

[FourFans]

But uh, back to the lecture at hand...

 

13 hours ago, olevelo said:

When talking about command pushes, is there a massive difference between saying “ready for command now” in the first half of the push, versus “Sq/CC next” in the second half?

At face value, no.  In reality, it depends...

It depends on your WG/CC and how he racks and stacks you.  If you get a DP from the boss, you're golden, regardless what the push is.  If you get a solid strat coupled to that push, you should be ok.  If there's no strat, no DP, no "super P" a la "if I had one more DP to give", and the push is "Sq/CC next"...it's up to the board to decide where they want you.

As I said before, a 10/20 strat sometimes isn't enough when it's balanced against a weak command push, or visa versa.  Take 5 DPs out of the that pool of 20 and the 10/20 is really 5/15, which is a clean kill, right?  But a weak command push can sink that ship.  Likewise, a dude that's a functional alcoholic or has multiple Q-3s and gets no strat, but gets a strong "command now" push because he's personally liked for what he's done recently for leadership, and gets promoted.

Unfortunately, it all depends on what the current flavor of the week.  It could be that all the WG/CC's decided to go with "Ready for command now!" and one outlier went with "Sq/CC next" and the board decides to weigh at it different.  It's opaque and impossible to read the middle of the pack unless you actually sit in the board.  That's why they never tell anyone who was on the board or why the decided the way they did.  (instead, a poor civilian gets to apologize to the runners up and take an educated stab at why they didn't make it)  

Perhaps that's just what integrity first looks like in an "I'm as good as you" society.

 

...Perfection is perfected, so I'ma let 'em understand...

[FourFans]

17 hours ago, Duck said:

Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man.

Duck, you clearly took that Green Dot training to heart. 

[mcbush]

Wingman of the year, must promote!

[Recut]

18 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

 

Unfortunately, it all depends on what the current flavor of the week.  It could be that all the WG/CC's decided to go with "Ready for command now!" and one outlier went with "Sq/CC next" and the board decides to weigh at it different.  It's opaque and impossible to read the middle of the pack unless you actually sit in the board.  

So, this makes me wonder.  Does everyone that gets promoted to LtCol get a command push (whatever the flavor)?  Future commanders are the exception to the pack (at least in reality) so not everyone should get a command push.  Yes, party line says the AF promotes based on potential but few will actually command.  Any old heads that can weigh on this?  

[ThreeHoler]

Yes. The previously required items for promotion (from several former board members I personally know):

For a P: “definitely promote”, or even better “if I had one more DP” or the like; “ready for Sq/CC now” or very similar; HAF or higher staff; and SDE all in the push. A strat added to the push is also good. See Skitzo’s post for a good example.

Anything that deviates is negative.

For a DP: according to the CSAF/SECAF, only the SR’s choice of DP should matter; however, I know two people who were passed over with a DP because board members felt their record didn’t warrant a DP and the SR was trying to get someone promoted.

[Recut]

6 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

Yes. The previously required items for promotion (from several former board members I personally know):

For a P: “definitely promote”, or even better “if I had one more DP” or the like; “ready for Sq/CC now” or very similar; HAF or higher staff; and SDE all in the push. A strat added to the push is also good. See Skitzo’s post for a good example.

Anything that deviates is negative.

For a DP: according to the CSAF/SECAF, only the SR’s choice of DP should matter; however, I know two people who were passed over with a DP because board members felt their record didn’t warrant a DP and the SR was trying to get someone promoted.

Nice explanation - appreciate it!

[FourFans]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

...and the SR was trying to get someone promoted.

Heaven help the commander who tries to promote someone on subjective "good leadership" qualities that might not translate well onto a PRF.

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Yes. The previously required items for promotion (from several former board members I personally know):

For a P: “definitely promote”, or even better “if I had one more DP” or the like; “ready for Sq/CC now” or very similar; HAF or higher staff; and SDE all in the push. A strat added to the push is also good. See Skitzo’s post for a good example.

Anything that deviates is negative.

For a DP: according to the CSAF/SECAF, only the SR’s choice of DP should matter; however, I know two people who were passed over with a DP because board members felt their record didn’t warrant a DP and the SR was trying to get someone promoted.

So, why even allow the Senior Rater to allocate DPs and Ps?  If the board is just going to override the decision, why even give the WG/CCs the decision at all?  Just remove the check box and let the board decided if that person is a DP or P.

[Duck]

So, why even allow the Senior Rater to allocate DPs and Ps?  If the board is just going to override the decision, why even give the WG/CCs the decision at all?  Just remove the check box and let the board decided if that person is a DP or P.

Great idea. Currently being ops tested on the O-4 board.

[HeloDude]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

So, why even allow the Senior Rater to allocate DPs and Ps?  If the board is just going to override the decision, why even give the WG/CCs the decision at all?  Just remove the check box and let the board decided if that person is a DP or P.

I guess it has something to do with it being a Promotion 'Recommendation' Form.  

I hear your frustration but when you look at the recent years and how many guys have been given an IPZ DP and passed over it comes out to something like 0.01% chance (however the math works out).  Don't get me wrong, it definitely sucks for those individuals.  Also, don't forget that a SR's DP allocation has nothing to do with the quality of officers he is rating.  So if a Wing CC has 9 IPZ O-4s for the O-5 board and gets 4(?) DPs, it doesn't mean that #4/9 is automatically better than what would be the first non-selected for promotion guy without a DP.  

I agree with you that it appears messed up (and probably most times is), but it actually goes to show that board is looking at the entire record and not just automatically promoting DPs.  I have personally heard a Wing CC say how he will get grilled by his fellow Wing CCs if it looks like they're speeding/just trying to get a guy promoted without the record showing continued performance.

[olevelo]

Yes. The previously required items for promotion (from several former board members I personally know):

For a P: “definitely promote”, or even better “if I had one more DP” or the like; “ready for Sq/CC now” or very similar; HAF or higher staff; and SDE all in the push. A strat added to the push is also good. See Skitzo’s post for a good example.

Anything that deviates is negative.

For a DP: according to the CSAF/SECAF, only the SR’s choice of DP should matter; however, I know two people who were passed over with a DP because board members felt their record didn’t warrant a DP and the SR was trying to get someone promoted.

Yeah that all pretty much jives with what I’ve seen. The big unknown now though is how that stacks up for APZ guys, since the board isn’t supposed to pay attention to that. Since the change, APZ’s with a P have definitely gone up, but still a pretty low chance, but what kind of pushes are they getting?

[ThreeHoler]

All the promoted APZs I personally know had a DP...but there are still unicorns. According to the AFPC lady, the pushes for APZ that are above the line include all the “Super P” items: strat, next DP verbiage, CC/HAF+/SDE push with top/recent OPRs to match.

[RJ09]

The P0417D board has now been passed by the boards that convened in Feb-Mar.  04 board is still delayed.  

[Weezer]

14 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

All the promoted APZs I personally know had a DP...but there are still unicorns. According to the AFPC lady, the pushes for APZ that are above the line include all the “Super P” items: strat, next DP verbiage, CC/HAF+/SDE push with top/recent OPRs to match.

I got picked up last year 1 APZ.  I was sitting in Joint Staff, got a #2/16 strat on the bottom line along with a push for SDE and Sq/CC.  Did not get a "super P" at all.

Pretty surprised when I got the news, but AFPC lady was pretty clear that that command push was 75% of what did me for IPZ.

Funny enough, my (successful) APZ PRF looked a lot like my 1BPZ and 2BPZ.  Only my IPZ one looked drastically different.  Almost as if my SR was deliberately sending a message flagging me as mediocre.

Also wrote a letter to the board.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Weezer
Additional info

[backseatdriver]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

I got picked up last year 1 APZ.  I was sitting in Joint Staff, got a #2/14 strat on the bottom line along with a push for SDE and Sq/CC.  Don’t remember what kind of P/super P I got.

Pretty suprised when I got the news, but AFPC lady was pretty clear that that command push was 75% of what did me for IPZ.

Also wrote a letter to the board.

You got passed over while working at the JCS?  Or did you PCS there after the board?

[Weezer]

15 minutes ago, backseatdriver said:

You got passed over while working at the JCS?  Or did you PCS there after the board?

I got my non-select notification 3 weeks before departing my last assignment (al Udeid short tour) to head to Joint Staff.  The push line on my non-select PRF, ironically, was for Joint Staff.