Promotion and PRF Information

[pcola]

Haha of course I expect them to screw it up. But the dreamer in me still hopes that this’ll be the time where everything comes together and we have a just in time implementation of a revolutionary new process that saves everyone a ton of unnecessary work. Nah...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[olevelo]

Oh good and you're a TPS grad to boot, great job AF.

Yup!

In regards to two line PRF’s...I wonder how they would handle those of us in school that have narrative only PRF’s written by our previous SR. Push them through as is, or would they just take the top and bottom lines and that’s all they see?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fatehunter]

On 9/7/2018 at 4:22 PM, pawnman said:

Unpopular opinion... But if you took the bonus and the accompanying ADSC, you knew what you were signing up for. I'd personally be all for forcing folks with an ADSC for the bonus to serve it the remainder, regardless of promotion results.

Thankfully it's still an unpopular opinion with official USAF. After passed over x2 to O-5 I was offered continuation to 24 years! Thanks, but no thanks. I checked box #5 to decline continuation in favor of getting out in six months, and seven months out of ADSC. I've never been so happy to visit the local MPF. Congrats to all the selects. It was rough for pilots and ACC pilots particularly.

[IDALPHA]

Does the AF publish the numbers of pilots turning down continuation?

If you decline continuation, are you still eligible for guard/reserve?

Anyone get offered 24 and negotiate to only 20?

Edited October 18, 2018 by IDALPHA
More questions

[Jetpilot]

1 hour ago, olevelo said:

Yup!

In regards to two line PRF’s...I wonder how they would handle those of us in school that have narrative only PRF’s written by our previous SR. Push them through as is, or would they just take the top and bottom lines and that’s all they see?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Second that.

 

Also, on a side note.  For those that don’t know (which was me) the AFPC counselor is only for IPZ amd APZ. I was hoping she might still provide feedback as to why someone did not make the cut regardless of where they are at in the timeline. 

[war007afa]

Continuation provides an option, not an ADSC.  If you sign for over 20, you have the option to stick around but you don't have to stay until the last day.  If you have an ADSC that takes you out past 20 (bonus acceptance, for instance) and you accept to 20, you return the unearned portion of the bonus at the DOS established based on your acceptance of 20.  Make sense?

[frog]

6 hours ago, Fatehunter said:

It was rough for pilots and ACC pilots particularly.

Sorry about the way the cards fell. 

Pilots fared better than everyone else the way I looked at the stats...what did I miss?

 

[Guest]

Sorry about the way the cards fell. 
Pilots fared better than everyone else the way I looked at the stats...what did I miss?
 

We don’t fair nearly as well as Doctors and Lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skitzo]

We don’t fair nearly as well as Doctors and Lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What’s up with that? Do LAF-J and MSC have 100% promotion opportunity all the way up? Never heard of those guys ever being passed over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[olevelo]

Continuation provides an option, not an ADSC.  If you sign for over 20, you have the option to stick around but you don't have to stay until the last day.  If you have an ADSC that takes you out past 20 (bonus acceptance, for instance) and you accept to 20, you return the unearned portion of the bonus at the DOS established based on your acceptance of 20.  Make sense?

So that’s another wrinkle in my situation. I have bonus to 24, because I expected to get continued to then, plus my PhD commitment will take me there. But if I only accept to 20 now, but they fix the glitch on the next board to 24 like they’re supposed to, so they stop my bonus now, or once I hit 20? Such a pain...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[14N Guy]

For anybody still tracking this, had an interesting conversation with a senior leader about what happened to me.

 

Basically I was told my records were fine, except for 2 OPRs. Those OPRs weren’t referrals and they didn’t have any overt negative indicators on them, but, they did have words that made them negative in the eyes of the board.

 

Specifically, they both had push lines that said something like, “ready for next challenge “, and “IDE look” or, “prep for IDE”. Neither had a leadership push but one did have a staff push.

 

So basically, 2 OPRs that were put in my record 8 years ago and 10 years ago have eliminated me from consideration for O-5. I did ask when records from 3-5 years ago would start counting more then records from 8-10 years ago and I was told there isn’t a good answer for that. I was told that if I had received those OPRs as an Lt they probably would have been ignored by the board.

 

As it stands, outside of a General pushing my PRF there is nothing I can do to overcome those two OPRs.

 

Bottom line, if you are a early/mid-level Captain make sure your push lines have all of the parts they need (strat/leadership/school). Nobody else will watch out for your records so you have to.

[dream big]

4 hours ago, 14N Guy said:

For anybody still tracking this, had an interesting conversation with a senior leader about what happened to me.

 

Basically I was told my records were fine, except for 2 OPRs. Those OPRs weren’t referrals and they didn’t have any overt negative indicators on them, but, they did have words that made them negative in the eyes of the board.

 

Specifically, they both had push lines that said something like, “ready for next challenge “, and “IDE look” or, “prep for IDE”. Neither had a leadership push but one did have a staff push.

 

So basically, 2 OPRs that were put in my record 8 years ago and 10 years ago have eliminated me from consideration for O-5. I did ask when records from 3-5 years ago would start counting more then records from 8-10 years ago and I was told there isn’t a good answer for that. I was told that if I had received those OPRs as an Lt they probably would have been ignored by the board.

 

As it stands, outside of a General pushing my PRF there is nothing I can do to overcome those two OPRs.

 

Bottom line, if you are a early/mid-level Captain make sure your push lines have all of the parts they need (strat/leadership/school). Nobody else will watch out for your records so you have to.

Aaaand this is why we have a retention crisis, incase anyone was wondering.

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, 14N Guy said:

For anybody still tracking this, had an interesting conversation with a senior leader about what happened to me.

 

Basically I was told my records were fine, except for 2 OPRs. Those OPRs weren’t referrals and they didn’t have any overt negative indicators on them, but, they did have words that made them negative in the eyes of the board.

 

Specifically, they both had push lines that said something like, “ready for next challenge “, and “IDE look” or, “prep for IDE”. Neither had a leadership push but one did have a staff push.

 

So basically, 2 OPRs that were put in my record 8 years ago and 10 years ago have eliminated me from consideration for O-5. I did ask when records from 3-5 years ago would start counting more then records from 8-10 years ago and I was told there isn’t a good answer for that. I was told that if I had received those OPRs as an Lt they probably would have been ignored by the board.

 

As it stands, outside of a General pushing my PRF there is nothing I can do to overcome those two OPRs.

 

Bottom line, if you are a early/mid-level Captain make sure your push lines have all of the parts they need (strat/leadership/school). Nobody else will watch out for your records so you have to.

So I guess the take-away here is that if you got a couple mediocre OPRs as a captain, don't bother growing or improving because it won't matter anyway.

[celtic020]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

So I guess the take-away here is that if you got a couple mediocre OPRs as a captain, don't bother growing or improving because it won't matter anyway.

I am not exactly sure about this, not to be rogue dissenter guy.  I had mediocre OPRs as an LT and young Captain and still got selected for IDE In Res based on good performance as a senior Capt/Junior Maj.   Also, at a joint command with raters of different services, language like "prep for Sq/CC" is actually good, not bad.  Disappointing, either way, to hear that a couple mediocre OPRs as a junior officer is a disqualifier for O-5....I HOPE it's not true.  Sorry to hear about this bro. 

[14N Guy]

2 hours ago, celtic020 said:

I am not exactly sure about this, not to be rogue dissenter guy.  I had mediocre OPRs as an LT and young Captain and still got selected for IDE In Res based on good performance as a senior Capt/Junior Maj.   Also, at a joint command with raters of different services, language like "prep for Sq/CC" is actually good, not bad.  Disappointing, either way, to hear that a couple mediocre OPRs as a junior officer is a disqualifier for O-5....I HOPE it's not true.  Sorry to hear about this bro. 

I think you have a valid point. One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that I was told that if I had only one OPR that had the negative comments on it, it most likely would have been overlooked. However, because there were two it sent a “clear message” to the board.

 

Could I have done things differently? Absolutely. I wasn’t as mature as I should have been. I wasn’t as good of a leader as I should have been. But, if somebody had given me this feedback a year or two after I got those OPRs I feel confident I could have done things differently to get the results I wanted. It certainly would have changed my assignment preferences. Instead, AF feedback (at least in my experience) is all rainbows and unicorns. 

[bennynova]

Sadly, push lines matter and not everyone knows that, including squadron CCs. 

job school and staff pushes are the way to show who’s a HPO and who’s in the bottom.

 

but if your eater doesn’t know what they are doing, then your push lines could send the wrong, negative message.   A good group or wing staff will catch these things.  Sadly,  most just pass it along.

 

job push:  should show the next job you are being pushed for.  Or it could say, on track for Sq/CC.   

School push should always be there. IDE, in res IDE, SDE, SASS, etc.... leaving it out sends a direct message.

staff push:  there’s a hierarchy for sure.   Malcom, Haf, JT staff.... leaving staff off sends a direct message.  So does a MAJCOM push for that matter 

[matmacwc]

38 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Sadly, push lines matter and not everyone knows that, including squadron CCs. 

job school and staff pushes are the way to show who’s a HPO and who’s in the bottom.

 

but if your eater doesn’t know what they are doing, then your push lines could send the wrong, negative message.   A good group or wing staff will catch these things.  Sadly,  most just pass it along.

 

job push:  should show the next job you are being pushed for.  Or it could say, on track for Sq/CC.   

School push should always be there. IDE, in res IDE, SDE, SASS, etc.... leaving it out sends a direct message.

staff push:  there’s a hierarchy for sure.   Malcom, Haf, JT staff.... leaving staff off sends a direct message.  So does a MAJCOM push for that matter 

This is why it is broken, the secrecy and all that.  I know there is a tiered system( 1,2,3) where tier 1 are your HPO's, 2 is everyone else and 3 is the dude why can't pass a PT test.  You'll never see that one either.  

[Sprkt69]

3 hours ago, 14N Guy said:

I think you have a valid point. One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that I was told that if I had only one OPR that had the negative comments on it, it most likely would have been overlooked. However, because there were two it sent a “clear message” to the board.

 

Could I have done things differently? Absolutely. I wasn’t as mature as I should have been. I wasn’t as good of a leader as I should have been. But, if somebody had given me this feedback a year or two after I got those OPRs I feel confident I could have done things differently to get the results I wanted. It certainly would have changed my assignment preferences. Instead, AF feedback (at least in my experience) is all rainbows and unicorns. 

What is this feedback thing you speak of?

[ThreeHoler]

I am not exactly sure about this, not to be rogue dissenter guy.  I had mediocre OPRs as an LT and young Captain and still got selected for IDE In Res based on good performance as a senior Capt/Junior Maj.   Also, at a joint command with raters of different services, language like "prep for Sq/CC" is actually good, not bad.  Disappointing, either way, to hear that a couple mediocre OPRs as a junior officer is a disqualifier for O-5....I HOPE it's not true.  Sorry to hear about this bro. 

Two words on your PRF are enough to “send a clear message to the board”:

“Must promote” instead of “definitely promote” on a “P” PRF.

[Danger41]

This is a great thread to emphasize the importance of delivering actual feedback. Most dirt bags in your squadrons probably think they’re doing a good job. People don’t earn wings (or become 14N’s, etc) and get operational without wanting to do well at stuff. Not everyone has enough self SA to realize when they’re missing the mark.

I love this quote attributed to Nick Saban (not sure he said it). “If you want to make everybody happy, don’t be a leader. Sell ice cream.”

You think passed over good dudes would rather be casual acquaintances with you or have you tell them what they’re doing wrong and give them a productive way forward?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Danger41

[Sprkt69]

33 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

This is a great thread to emphasize the importance of delivering actual feedback. Most dirt bags in your squadrons probably think they’re doing a good job. People don’t earn wings (or become 14N’s, etc) and get operational without wanting to do well at stuff. Not everyone has enough self SA to realize when they’re missing the mark.

I love this quote attributed to Nick Saban (not sure he said it). “If you want to make everybody happy, don’t be a leader. Sell ice cream.”

You think passed over good dudes would rather be casual acquaintances with you or have you tell them what they’re doing wrong and give them a productive way forward?

I agree with you 100%.

Feedback needs to be 360 degrees, not just top down. How many could say that they have had honest, consistent feedback for their entire career? Either from their OIC or their subordinates.

 

[jazzdude]

Then again, that feedback may just consist of what the commander knows, i.e. the path that worked for them

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Two words on your PRF are enough to “send a clear message to the board”:

“Must promote” instead of “definitely promote” on a “P” PRF.

Which is better???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bennynova]

9 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

Which is better???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Duck says MUST PROMOTE is better

Anything that doesn’t say Definitiely Promote is bad

do you really not know?

[ThreeHoler]

Duck says MUST PROMOTE is better
Anything that doesn’t say Definitiely Promote is bad
do you really not know?

I had my Sq/CC tell me to my face that “must promote” was a solid PRF push (and truly believe it). I told the CC that it was a terrible push and I expected to be passed over. I hate being right.