Promotion and PRF Information

[ClearedHot]

Lets correct the record here.

1. JCS JT is best bar none. Note the key words JCS. I agree, not all JT jobs are equal, but nothing tops being on the JCS staff.

2. HAF is next.

3. The reason there were fewer HAF vectors is two fold. First, JT is better so they give that vector to all the top dudes. Second, the USAF made a decision to shortfall the rated staff. The numbers are staggering. Through the Spring VML there were 1200 (approx), Rated Staff billets open, the USAF is going to fill 48....yes I said 48 for a 3% fill rate. As a commander the brief I got broke down the individual rated categories the USAF was going to fill, as an example, Weapons School was going to be filled at 40%.

4. I've seen the DT process close up in both the SOF and ACC arenas, JCS JT was the TOP vector in both cases. In fact, the feedback we got was to specify "JCS" for our absolute top guys.

For the record, I've done the HAF gig as an exec at a very high level and I never once saw a HAF vector out weight a JCS vector...form O-3 all the way to O-8 vectors.

[Hacker]

Probably true, but I will give a feeble reply; Nearly everyone on this board complains about senior leadership. If we ever hope to change some of the buffoonery that occupies threads such as the "he we shall not name" or "leadership at a forward location," then it is prudent to share some of the keys to success with the crew dogs of today who will be the bitched about leaders of tomorrow.

Sorry, but "crew dogs" don't need this info shared with them -- they're all ready on the slow train to begin with. All of us who didn't go to ACSC in residence (and thus not going to get staff jobs...) are never going to be jousting for Joint Staff vectors from the DT. In case you hadn't noticed, the *majority* of O-4s out there fall into that category, and if you look at the O-5 promotion statistics that shows who is on the fast track and who is not.

You're still talking about slivers of percentages of people on such a career track.

That kind of info is absolutely useless to anyone who is not all ready a command-tracker, to be honest. It's like discussing the merits of a Breitling vs a Rolex to a hungry, penniless, homeless person.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Hacker

[ClearedHot]

Sorry, but "crew dogs" don't need this info shared with them -- they're all ready on the slow train to begin with. All of us who didn't go to ACSC in residence (and thus not going to get staff jobs...) are never going to be jousting for Joint Staff vectors from the DT. In case you hadn't noticed, the *majority* of O-4s out there fall into that category, and if you look at the O-5 promotion statistics that shows who is on the fast track and who is not.

You're still talking about slivers of percentages of people on such a career track.

That kind of info is absolutely useless to anyone who is not all ready a command-tracker, to be honest. It's like discussing the merits of a Breitling vs a Rolex to a hungry, penniless, homeless person.

Absolutely disagree,

#1. I have always viewed this forum as a mentoring vehicle and while not all "Crew Dawg" Majs will find this useful, someone asked and there is nothing wrong with providing the information especially on the odd chance that one of the future "Slivers" is a young dude on this site who might one day rise to a position of leadership armed with the knowledge and common sense acquired from baseops.

#2. From my experience, your statement about not going to IDE in residence is simply not true. I personally know several very senior officerswho did not go to IDE inresidence, peaked later and went to SDE and became Wing/CCs and higher. Obviously that is not the norm, but it does happen and more often than you think. Yes the numbers do tell the story of a very steep pyramid; 25% of O-4's go to IDE, 1% of O-4's go to ASG, 10% of O-5/O-6's go to SDE, but there are still folks who go as non-selects and achieve very high rank.

As a disclaimer, I am in the group you seem to dislike, I did IDE inresidence as a select, followed by ASG, and went to inresidence SDE as a select. That being said, as SQ/CC I had a 100% success rate getting my O-4's to IDE inresidence, approximately 50% of those were non-selects that I fought tooth and nail to get to IDE. Of those, two were selected for ASG and will most certainly be picked up for SDE. I also fought long and hard to get vectors that will keep moving them along. Using your logic I should have given up on them because they did not make the initial cut.

Bottomline, there are no absolutes and as long as people are asking, I will continue to provide the info...and for the record, hungry or not, I prefer my Breitling.

[Techsan]

Up for Major next month...saw my PRF this week and got the ole 'P'.

Anyone have an estimate of DPs to Ps that usually meet the board?

[ClearedHot]

Up for Major next month...saw my PRF this week and got the ole 'P'.

Anyone have an estimate of DPs to Ps that usually meet the board?

The info is on the AFPC website by year group, but the asinine Comm Nazis at AFPC made most of the site .MIL only, maybe the chinese are trying to steal our promotion data, fucking idiots.

Regardless, I think the DPs to Major are in the 30-40% range, however promotion to Major is running at 95% or better. Realistically if you did your PME and have a reasonable record, you will most likely be picked up. The real advantage of the DP is selection for IDE. Without a DP you drop to the 5-10% range for IDE.

With the earlier promotion timelines (you guys are making Major about 3 years before older year groups), there is still time to recover and go to IDE inresidence even if you are not a a select. As a SQ/CC I had two non-selects that I got to inresidence IDE ( during their second look, one to ACSC the other to CGSC), of those two one went on to SAASS, so you can recover.

The real discriminator is going to Lt Col, promotion rates are running in the 70-80% range, but only 10% of those selected for promotion will be SDE selects. If you are not a select your chances of going to SDE inresidence are about 1-2%.

Best of luck on the board.

[tac airlifter]

Me thinks I didn't get a DP because I didn't go to SOS in res (correspondence completed in '06), and I didn't have @ least a Bachelors +.

All else is good...OPRs w/strats, sq/wg jobs, CGOQ, etc. & no skeletons.

How many masters classes do you need for the "+" to appear on your SURF? I just started my masters and won't even be halfway complete by my board next year.

[KennyB]

How many masters classes do you need for the "+" to appear on your SURF? I just started my masters and won't even be halfway complete by my board next year.

15 credits = Bach+. Just send your partial transcript to AFIT and your surf will get updated.

[pittsdriver]

Quick question for you old hats who have written PRFs for promotion boards. Do you guys just copy lines out of OPRs and paste them into the PRF, or do you re-write the bullets to make them better? I ask because I just got to see my PRF for my O-4 board, and it is essentially just the bullets copied right out of my OPRs and looks like little to no thought went into writing it except cut and paste.

[BQZip01]

Speaking as a guy who used to be a group OG exec, the bullets have to be substantiated. Usually that means they are combined and pulled from official government documents to include decorations, OPRs, training reports, official memoranda, etc. It is entirely likely they pulled it from your OPRs, but they should have other bullets too.

If there is something that you want in there and it isn't included, ask your commander/flight commander to write a memo detailing what you want in the OPR. That will usually be sufficient.

[KennyB]

Ideally each PRF line has 2-3 (or more) separate bits of info from your various OPRs. I don't know any O-5s/O-6s who don't 'put any thought' into the PRF construction. They can be arranged in a couple different ways, depending on how the wing king likes to sign them. Chronological order is one way, or similar accomplishments can be grouped together.

You do have to substantiate each item in the PRF with a signed OPR or decoration. And the leadership is pretty keen on 'speeding'. By that I mean, you take your OPR accomplishment and paint it in the PRF like you were Airplane Jesus with misleading wording.

That's why OPRs are so important... once that information is in the OPR and signed, it becomes history. It's all PRF fodder in the end.

Edited October 10, 2009 by kenblankenship

[C17Driver]

A bullet on your PRF is not normally just a "cut and paste" from an OPR. Normally each PRF line will have multiple "bullets" from different source documents as discussed. For example, if you have several strats, they would normally be listed on the same line grouped by level of command. Flt/CC Strats, Sq/CC Strats, OG/CC Strats...etc.

[BigFreddie]

Great thread here... I hate to talk about this topic but it is important. As someone mentioned the AF seems to select those destined for greatness early in their careers. I've only been around the AF for 10 years and it seems as if you can get on a good track early on in your career your path is much easier. Case in point - I had a good friend in the C-5 community that was/is as bright and shiny as you can get. AMC CGO of the Year, ATA Young Airman of the Year, IP in first assignment, SOS in res 2 weeks after pinning on Capt, Intern Program dude. All this in the first 5 years of his career - all he really needs to do is stick to the straight and narrow and he'll easily make 0-5 and probably 0-6. His path is laid out for him to do great things.

As young pilots you're told to become an expert on your airframe. That is expected. No one needs to really tell you that. No one really talks about doing community service and doing projects like the Christmas party or someone's change of command. I avoided that stuff like the plague and took more flying jobs because I thought that was what the AF was all about. Those who did the other stuff were rewarded with CGO awards and various other things that look good in OPRs. That stuff all helps when promotion isn't a given (0-4+).

Another thing that gets me too are the guys who try to fill boxes. Sure, there is some validity in having all those things done. But don't lose sight of the fact you need to do your J-O-B everyday and do it well. If you have all your boxes filled but you suck at your daily job you will have bad OPRs and a bad PRF. Do your J-O-B and press on.

I can lay out some numbers from the 08 Major's board...

Board met in December.

Results released in March.

First people promoted in August after the last people from the 07 board finished promoting.

About 2400 people were promoted and the increment is about 185. 07 had about 2100 promoted with a 170ish increment.

Selects that I knew were folks who had their Master's completed.

USAFA grads are not the first to commission. It is strictly on date of rank. There are 4 guys in the squadron who are promoting before me because they have a date of rank before me even though I was a USAFA grad. Granted there are about 700 or so guys right in the middle of the pack who are USAFA grads and if you're behind them you're going to wait a few months to get promoted but that's the way it goes. And the USAFA grads are arranged by order of merit. It sucks, I'm sorry but that's the way it is. I too am upset that it seems some get pushed back to commission after USAFA grads.

I was involved in writing PRFs at two different bases in basically the last year. I had buddies help write my initial draft. Each level that saw it completely changed the thing. The best thing to do is go talk to your leadership a year out from your board and start getting your records straight. I have a whole simple PPT brief I put together for my squadron if anyone is interested...

BF

[HeloDude]

Given that the O-5 IZ select rate for in-residence BDE attendees is historically 100%, and BDE select for SOS grads is virtually 100%, it can be said that being a DG from SOS is almost a guarantee to make O-5 in the zone if you choose to do BDE in-res.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're referring to 'IDE'. SOS is the classical form of BDE.

Also, assuming you meant 'IDE select for SOS grads is virtually 100%'...I don't know where you're getting that info from? I agree that more than half the time a DG out of SOS will be a select on his Major's boards but I have seen it not happen...on this board for example I personally know of someone who was an SOS DG and was not a select (did not have a masters).

Talking to my buds that got picked up this round and who were selects--ALL of them has their masters complete but not all were SOS DG's. Also, talking to one of our prior wing exec's, he said our wing king here reserves his DP's for guys with their masters degree and those are the ones he also pushes for IDE in-residence.

Like ClearedHot said, it may not be right, but it's the system--get your masters degree. Fortunately I'm finishing up my last class! Can't wait to be done with this sh!t.

[slacker]

PME is required for the Reserves too. I've had friends press-to-test on not completing ACSC, guess how that turned out? The masters requirement it coming, not as strong as active duty. So in the reserves, you're supposed to have a full-time civilian job, pretty much another full-time job with the reserves, and be a full-time student. It's great.

[OL Patch]

Guys/Gals,

Clearedhot speaks the truth. I was a WIC instructor up for 0-4 having done SOS by correspondence because back then in the fighter squadrons the mentality was if you have to do it just take the easy route. Made 0-4 on time without a school selection. Went off to the staff job in the sky, completed my Masters (Embry-Ridiculous)/IDE and was picked up for 0-5 with an SDE select. As a retired guy I can say; "It is what it is!"

--Know your jet, be the best tactician, know your limitations (no pun intended), be a steely eyed Mig Killing/Bomb Dropping/Cargo Carrying/Air Dropping/Fuel Passing/Rescuing MOFO---AND also while doing that:

--Get your squares filled early before you're overtaken by the job/family/life requirements

You will then be postured to affect change where able, and protect the next generation by being one of the good guys that wins within the system!

Learn from those before you either in the bar, on the internet, or wherever possible.

Retguy

Edited for current demographics within my old community "Guys & Gals"

Edited February 11, 2010 by retguy

[KennyB]

Updated intel from AFPC on the mystical DT and DEDB process... search the Portal for "An Officer’s Guide To The Mobility Air Forces Development Team." The powers that be have laid out everything simply so even a 3rd grader such as myself can grasp the process. Also clarification on how to interpret your vector. Excerpts below.

MOBILITY AIR FORCE (MAF) DEVELOPMENT TEAM (DT)

The MAF DT will only review records of officers that have been identified by a MAF Rated Distribution Training Management Code. This ensures regardless of what MAJCOM or duty position a MAF officer is assigned to, their record will be reviewed by a panel of their senior leaders. The MAF DT is dedicated to “developing” officers to meet both functional and Air Force corporate leadership requirements. It is comprised of senior leaders from the functional community, MAJCOMs, and AFPC. The DT boards are held at AFPC within three standardized windows (Fall DTs: Nov-Dec, Spring DTs: Mar-Apr, Summer DTs: Jul-Aug).

The DT will provide developmental vectors (guidelines for career development) as an input to the rated assignment team and as feedback to CCs and officers on their expressed development plans. The Airmen Development Plan (ADP) is a critical communication tool for officers and their CCs to develop a career plan. The ADP is a “game plan” for a career, not a recipe for the next assignment.

Vectors consist mainly of organizational targets such as “major command,” “joint” or “Air Staff” and are intended to influence officers’ future assignments. The vector assigned to an officer is the DT’s best judgment at the time the DT meets; however, individual circumstances or mission needs may dictate a different assignment. The level of the vector is based on the member’s achievements, experience, potential and how their record compares to peers within their year group. Although there is no specific “quota” for the level of the vector given, the percentage of rated requirements at each level is taken into account by the DT. For instance there are more rated requirements at the MAJCOM level versus the Air Staff level; as such more of our officers will be vectored to the MAJCOM staff than Air Staff. Vectors are considered current until one of three conditions has been met; it has been over three years since the previous vector was established, the officer has met the vector, or the officer has met another trigger point. There are up to five “trigger points” when the MAF DT could issue vectors:

• Selection to major

• Outplacement from intermediate developmental education

• Selection to lieutenant colonel

• Outplacement from senior developmental education (for lieutenant colonels)

• Commander-designated review

How do I get there from here? Nothing shocking in this document... just everything the old heads have been reiterating for years after seeing the process work. You can either stick your head in the sand and bitch about the AF, or know the rules of the game in which you're engaged, win the damned thing, and then start making things better. Two excerpts below... one from the rater perspective and below that what you can do to affect your career.

RATER/SENIOR RATER RESPONSIBILITIES

Challenge/Groom your Officers

Although the DT is comprised of senior leaders from the MAF and A1 community, they are reviewing the comments/opinions of senior raters. The DT is simply confirming what the wing leadership has proclaimed about the officer. With that in mind, it is important to continue to challenge your officers with additional levels of responsibility in the squadron, group and wing. Additionally, pushing the officers to compete for programs such as Phoenix Horizon, Weapons Instructor Course, and Test Pilot School, helps distinguish those officers from their peers. Programs such as these are used as indicators for the MAF DT and play an important role in how that officer’s record is scored.

Professional Military Education (PME)/Advanced Academic Degree (AAD)

Continue to push completing PME as soon as eligible. Rule of thumb is for your officers to have their PME complete by correspondence by 1-year after pin-on. This will help them in a number of ways to include: competing for key opportunities (special programs, key assignments, etc) , it will make your officers more competitive at the MAF DT as well as the Air Force DEDB regardless of the officer’s status (candidate versus select). Please review Officer Development Memo dated December 3, 2009 in the attachments. Essentially, this memo re-confirms the importance of completing PME by correspondence regardless of your officer’s status (candidate or select). By completing it early in the eligibility window it opens up opportunities to compete for foreign/joint schools.

Additionally, the Air Force has established a premium on a well-educated officer force, with this in mind, AAD completion has been “unmasked” at promotion boards since 2008. As more emphasis is placed on this requirement, the more noticeable it will be when your officer does not have this complete. Although the ACSC online course can take up to 24 months to complete, focusing your officers this route will help them achieve two milestones at once. However, your officer should complete a program that interests them and enhances any skills they may already have or are interested in creating. For instance, if your officer is interested in a Legislative Fellowship, he/she should look to complete an AAD in Political Affairs.

Consistent record

Be sure to review your officer’s records to provide the best opportunity for their level of achievement and experience. For instance the Air Force has 15 total seats for the Air Force Legislative Fellowship Program (IDE) that every AFSC is eligible for; therefore very few records will be competitive. Although your officers may request any program they would like, the chain of command needs to help ensure preferences are realistic. This is the same for vectors as well. As stated previously in this guide, a JCS vector recommendation should be reserved for your top two percent.

Stratification: Stratification is the most common way to reveal where an officer stands among his or her peers. It can be a statement of opinion, a ranking among peers, or can be reflected in a recommendation for an assignment, command, or DE opportunity. However, it should be used judiciously. Not everyone can be #1. Creative or inconsistent stratification can be more harmful than good for the officer.

Airmen Development Plan (ADP)

It is also important to note the ADP must be “finalized” and at AFPC to have the best effect. If the ADP is still showing “draft”, then it has not been forwarded to AFPC. A link to the ADP tutorial has been included in “References and Helpful Links”.

Although the member’s comments are important, the ADP is most effective when the rater/senior rater provides clear and accurate comments on the member’s achievements future development plans and potential to serve. This is the opportunity to “tell the rest of the story”. The ADP is not equivalent to a Promotion Recommendation Form meeting a promotion board and does not need stratification. Instead the raters’ comments should be strategic in nature and provide a good path for that officer’s next transition.

“3 yrs Time on Station summer 2012, perfect choice for DE. Recommend Jt Other staff tour (COCOM would be perfect fit for his skills) then return to wing to compete for Ops Sq/CC. No doubt Major XXX has the skills and motivation to lead.” Col J Doe, 123 OG/CC, DSN 234-5678. (recommend signing to illustrate who wrote the ADP comments).

Additionally, the comments should be consistent with the officer’s record. The OPR comments, 3849 comments and ADP comments should all reflect the officers’ performance and potential.

Finally, we recommend the officer and rater update the ADP during the closeout of their OPR; this will ensure a “fresh” ADP is always available for the rated assignment team.

Record Accuracy

Although it is up to the officer to ensure their records are accurate and current. There have been instances when the most recent OPR was not completed in a timely manner or an ADP was not forwarded in time to meet the DT. If you have officers meeting the board and they have an OPR closing out within 60 days of the start date please do what you can to ensure that report makes it to the board. Additionally, for the MAF DT only the rater needs to review/forward the ADP to AFPC, so please do what you can to stress the importance of having a current and detailed ADP on file prior to the DT convening.

School/Special Program Eligibility

Specifically for the summer and fall DT boards, be sure to counsel your officers on what is necessary for the schools/special programs they are selecting. Pay particular attention to a GRE/GMAT or DLAB scores for entry. Scores of this type should be on file prior to the MAF DT meeting. This will ensure the board is aware they are qualified for the school/program and may make them more competitive.

OFFICER’S RESPONSIBILITIES

Do Your Job Well

Although common sense, this is sometimes lost. You are expected to be a professional aviator/officer. It is your job to be the best you can be. The bottom-line is if you do your job well it will create other opportunities to help enhance your career.

Record your accomplishments

When it comes time to complete your OPR, you most likely will be afforded the opportunity to provide inputs. Take this opportunity seriously. Provide information that clearly conveys what you have accomplished over the reporting period. Additionally, make sure your rater knows what your career aspirations are and what other opportunities you may be interested in (RAS program, cross flow program, etc).

With the e-OPR form, you have the opportunity to review your report prior to it becoming a matter of record, take advantage and discuss any concerns you may have with your rater.

Ensure your records are accurate

“You never know when someone is looking at your records” is a very accurate quote. A number of key opportunities can be lost if your records do not provide the best picture of your accomplishments. This could be ensuring your AAD has been completed or your duty title is accurate, any item that does not reflect you in the manner you deserve should be reviewed.

PME

Complete PME by correspondence as soon as you are eligible, regardless of your status (select or candidate) by completing it early you will make yourself for more competitive for key opportunities (assignments and development education).

AAD

Complete your Master’s Degree as soon as you are able. the Air Force has “unmasked” your ADD completion at promotion boards beginning in 2008. The Air Force has an ACSC on line program that will result in an AAD once complete; in addition, there is a pilot program to earn an AAD through an SOS online course. All of this should let you know that the Air Force expects you to earn an AAD. As more emphasis is being placed on this indicator the more it will be noticed when you do not have it complete.

Keep in mind, when making the decision to start your AAD you should select a program that interests you. If this is a two-year program at a campus nearby, then get it done. However, keep in mind there comes a time of diminishing returns, if you are unable to complete that program in a reasonable timeframe due to deployments or other issues that compete for your time, then you may want to choose another program.

Edited February 23, 2010 by kenblankenship

[KennyB]

I haven't talked to anyone from this year's board, but it's unusual for the DG not to be on the schools list.

Agree to disagree on that.

Although logically I can see your point... in the eyes on the AF, if you're an SOS DG, then you're essentially being strated as a top 10% CGO in the AF. With the school select rate at the Maj's board being around the top 20-22%, then it would be logical to assume that every SOS DG would occupy the first 10% of those school selects and the other 12% would be decided on strength of record. Rough wag math.

But now let's apply reality. There are some good guys/gals who DG @ SOS and *also* have the record strength from the other eight CGO years. Conversely, there are some chuckleheads who do well for one month @ SOS, get a DG, and think they're made. One great month doesn't offset eight years of mediocrity. You need consistent performance to be on the bubble for school at your Maj's board. Additionally, there are those with very strong eight-year records who get Top Third or nothing from SOS. If you're strong on the paperwork across your CGO years and get nothing from SOS, it's a little alert flag that something is possibly awry (because of the USAF emphasis on this course)... but again, eight-years can/will outweigh one-month at SOS.

Thesis: SOS DG is obviously a good thing, but is not always a clear indicator of a school select at the Maj's board. Also, it's not the end of the world if you don't nail down the "coveted" DG. Hopefully you're a good dude/gal who is a razor sharp technical expert in your career field. I understand that holds some weight as well.

(spoken by a former OG Exec who will never get that year of his life back...)

[60 driver]

I'm absolutely thrilled that most of the AF is consumed with getting their masters, doing SOS in residence, worried about whether they get picked up for major and ACSC, etc. Makes my desire to get the ###### out and get into the guard/ reserves that much easier, and more likely. Keep working your asses off, the future for you is bright!

I hear you - in fact, I recognize those words as my own, from 10 years ago.

However, do your research before you punch out for the promised land of the Guard. When I transferred over from active duty, I believed that I could now fly for the rest of my career and no one would give a shit about PME and promotions anymore. The first part was true - not so much the second.

As a Guard guy, you will meet a ROPMA board after you've been at a certain rank for the prescribed maximum number of years, and if you don't get picked up for promotion, they can- and will - kick your ass out, just like on active duty. At least in my state, you will not get promoted (by order of the state adjutant general) if you don't have PME finished. This didn't used to be the case; now it is.

There are such things as selective retention boards, but for the most part a passed over captain will hit the streets at the 12 year mark, a major at 20ish. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to gnat's ass those numbers, but they're in the ball park.

Most guys have no desire to be the chairman of the joint chiefs - but for those who want to keep flying (and a job) a while longer, we have to bite the bullet and do PME anyway. I swore up and down I would never get a ######ing master's or do ACSC just to get promoted - now I can only say, I will never get a ######ing master's.

Just a heads up.

edit: basically what GA and slacker already pointed out - oops

Edited March 4, 2010 by 60 driver

[Karl Hungus]

I don't mind getting a masters- it's just that I want to get one that's actually useful, on my own terms, from a legit school, and at my own pace. As I'm sure everyone knows, it's very difficult, but not impossible, to do that on active duty. Combined with the constant deployments, PME, and general bullshit that permeates your "free" time at home, it's a pretty full plate to handle. I know the grass is always greener... but I tend to think the value of having some control over your life and your deployments outweighs the full-time paycheck. Maybe things will change drastically when my time's up, maybe my opinions will change. Maybe not.

[Cooter]

I beleive this years board to O-4 is going to be interesting. It's already been said that the promotion rate will drop but you have to remember that the '02 year group did not get RIF/VSP so the year group is fat. We could see a considerable amount of dudes not get promoted even if they have checked all their boxes but have been mediocre or less there entire career. I'm very interested to see the results in Mar '11 that's for sure.

Cooter

[BADFNZ]

That's the problem. Pay and EAD dates for spring graduates are accurate but DORs can be no earlier than the USAFA DOR. Because of this, I got my 2, 4, & 6 year raises on time, based on pay date, but didn't get my 1LT and CAPT promotions until 25 and 49 months respectively. Basically between the month I was working before they graduated and their two months off I had three months on the job before a single zoomie showed up at work.

When I get a line number for Major it'll be behind all the USAFA folks who are ahead of me in the alphabet (almost half). This will probably delay my promotion 4-6 months.

Sorry for bumping a year old post, but can someone explain this?

I'm an OTS grad with a commissioning date of 30 April, meaning I commissioned about 1 month before Academy grads did. My DOR, according to vMPF, is still 30 April and I recently pinned on 1Lt. So unless I'm reading something wrong, my DOR isn't affected by Academy grads.

Edited May 22, 2010 by BADFNZ

[zmoney]

See DODI 1310.01 for information regarding Date of Rank for officers:

6.5. Date of Rank for Second Lieutenants or Ensigns Appointed in May or June. The date of rank of second lieutenants or ensigns appointed under Section 2106 or 2107 of Reference (d) in May or June of any year who enter active duty during either of those months is the date that the class of cadets or midshipmen graduated from one of the Service Academies. Such appointees who enter active duty before the graduation date of the appropriate Service Academy may take precedence over academy graduates. Within such groups of Section 2106 and 2107 of Reference (d) appointees, distinguished military graduates may take precedence. In these cases, tiebreakers described in subsection 6.6. apply.

Example: I graduated & commissioned on 24 May 06. The '06 academy grades commissioned on 31 May 06. My DOR was 31 May 06. As a result, I get to pin on captain on 31 May 10 (about a week, yay).

As far as major line numbers are concerned... I always thought that was merit based, but I actually have no idea how those are worked out.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Toro

[stract]

for determining line numbers for Major's Boards, etc, it's all date of rank based. Then there are tie-breakers (for Zoo grads, class rank at graduation is something like tiebreaker #5). Then it's birthday (whose is earlier), and I shit you not the last tiebreaker is SSN backward, whoever has the lowest number. There's a knowledge document spelling out exactly how line numbers are determined on the AFPC website (which I can't access from home).

https://gum.afpc.randolph.af.mil/cgi-bin/askafpc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4384&p_created=1119799032&p_sid=*BitZz*j&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=13634&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NSw1JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1ob3cgaXMgeW91ciBsaW5lIG51bWJlciBkZXRlcm1pbmVkPw**&p_li=&p_topview=1&rstr_flag=1

edit to add the link for those who can access from a .mil computer "Determining Officer Promotion Line Numbers"

Edited May 23, 2010 by stract

[Spartacus]

Does anyone know what the overall percentages are for those who end up attending IDE in-residence? It sounds like 20% get selected at the board but how many end up going in-residence eventually?

[ClearedHot]

Does anyone know what the overall percentages are for those who end up attending IDE in-residence? It sounds like 20% get selected at the board but how many end up going in-residence eventually?

The current "commitment" from the chief is that if you are a "select" you will go.

Timing varies, but as of late, the majority of IDE folks are going to school early, while SDE folks are going later...exceptions everywhere of course. The ASG programs take less than 1% of the in-res IDE grads for a second year of advanced school. If you are not a "select" then you are a candidate and 1-2% of candidates will eventually be selected, usually in during third look for IDE or fourth for SDE.

Overall in-res rate for IDE = 25%

Overall in-res rate for ASG = <1%

Overall In-res rate for SDE = 10%