Promotion and PRF Information

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

If instructions to the board say not to consider it I believe the board will do their level best to comply (I know, flame away). Now, will that keep your WG/CC from giving you a P when you may otherwise deserve a DP? Who knows. 

I did ACSC in 2013 when it was Read-a-Book-Take-a-Test and it wasn’t hard. It wasn’t all that interesting either to me. But I just don’t agree that you deserve promotion because you were one of the three dudes in 2005 YG that stayed in. 

Perhaps, but based on how many O-5s the Air Force needs, I don't know how choosy they can be.  At least, that's what I tell myself when I work on my PRF with no school and no staff.

[soupafly06]

7 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

We just never know when Oprah might show up to the promotion board and treat it like a car giveaway on her show. "Everyone with a 'P' or 'DP' makes O-5!"

It’s a helluva gamble to take especially when promotion rates for those in the zone with a “P” went down almost 10% between the ‘17 and ‘18 boards while BPZ went up.  The Air Force will get their’s, and they’re giving it to the shiny pennies still.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, IDALPHA said:

Homestar.... your level of blue koolaid consumption is commendable.

Your comments make it sound like “since I had to, YOU have to”

Whatever. I did what I needed to do in my time to play by the advertised rules for promotion. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. But don’t cry when you get passed over. 

[pawnman]

55 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

No school and no staff. You sir are a savage! We have a lot in common.

We just never know when Oprah might show up to the promotion board and treat it like a car giveaway on her show. "Everyone with a 'P' or 'DP' makes O-5!"

I did all I could. I took group and wing staff jobs when my functional wouldn't release me for even the AFPC mail robot jobs, and I did ACSC in correspondence.  The rest is up to my WG/CC. I have a literal coin flip... There's only two 05 officers assigned to my wing, and we're both flyers.

[Homestar]

7 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I did all I could. I took group and wing staff jobs when my functional wouldn't release me for even the AFPC mail robot jobs, and I did ACSC in correspondence.  The rest is up to my WG/CC. I have a literal coin flip... There's only two 05 officers assigned to my wing, and we're both flyers.

I spent every assignment flying. Have never missed a gate month. Even my non-vol 365 was flying. No staff. IDE by correspondence. Am in a flying-till-retirement assignment now. Never made it above the wing staff. P on my IPZ PRF. But that looks like Kool Aid to some. 

[IDALPHA]

45 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Whatever. I did what I needed to do in my time to play by the advertised rules for promotion. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. But don’t cry when you get passed over. 

No crying here... Even getting promoted is not enough to stay a single day past a UPT commitment. 

The “leaders” that self identified by clicking a mouse(on or off duty) to “do what’s needed” in order to make rank is one more reason pilots are out ASAP.

[NKAWTG]

3 hours ago, soupafly06 said:

It’s a helluva gamble to take especially when promotion rates for those in the zone with a “P” went down almost 10% between the ‘17 and ‘18 boards while BPZ went up.  The Air Force will get their’s, and they’re giving it to the shiny pennies still.

Did the math,  and the no IDE crowd's case is stronger than I thought.   44% last year vs 14% over the past 5 years.  DP matter, so the odds are good if you can snag one.  And they haven't upped the BTZ numbers.  They stay in the 120 to 130 range per year.

[ThreeHoler]

Did the math,  and the no IDE crowd's case is stronger than I thought.   44% last year vs 14% over the past 5 years.  DP matter, so the odds are good if you can snag one.  And they haven't upped the BTZ numbers.  They stay in the 120 to 130 range per year.

That increase is solely due to selects not being allowed to do correspondence. But now they got rid of selects. Odds are not in your favor if you skip IDE.

[Jetpilot]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

That increase is solely due to selects not being allowed to do correspondence. But now they got rid of selects. Odds are not in your favor if you skip IDE.

 

Which actually was total BS because all it did was delay when you could take it. It was/is still required for JPME credit if people ended up going elsewhere for school. Also, not to mention, I’m not sure senior raters or board members understood the change. 

[NKAWTG]

 

4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

That increase is solely due to selects not being allowed to do correspondence. But now they got rid of selects. Odds are not in your favor if you skip IDE.

 

This would explain the roughly 20 person increase in no IDE DPs.  Had to be a very specific case of a 3rd look IDE select currently at school.  Were the narrative only PRFs treated as a DP?  I'm not a bright shiny type, so very little exposure to that side of the sausage making.  

Irregardless, no IDE puts you into a tight spot to get a DP without something really out of normal, like a TPS grad they wouldn't release to school.  

[FLEA]

Just curious what direction are people getting from their senior raters regarding when to do in correspondence? More specifically, is it still being used as a discriminator for school looks? 

[HossHarris]

21 hours ago, Homestar said:

I spent every assignment flying. Have never missed a gate month. Even my non-vol 365 was flying. No staff. IDE by correspondence. Am in a flying-till-retirement assignment now. Never made it above the wing staff. P on my IPZ PRF. But that looks like Kool Aid to some. 

That’s how I did It. 

20 years and 3 days. 

100% flying. 

 

[olevelo]

I’m confused as to why they made a call and said hook him up, if they didn’t think he was worth being a Flt/CC in the first place?


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[dream big]

On 11/22/2018 at 5:55 AM, HarleyQuinn said:

My former CC did that for a captain at my previous base. This captains previous CC called to say hook this person up prior to the board. They put this captain in a Group job before his promotion board because he wasn't a Flt/CC at his previous base. The captain didn't fit at the Group level and when said individual returned to the squadron, this individual was toxic on a level of 10/10. As a major this person got worse and I had to have the individual check their baggage at the door. All because someone made a phone call...... He PCS'd and now he is another CC's problem. If you love officers who only submit themselves for awards, it was this guy. He wasn't a Flt/CC for a damn good reason at his previous base. 

I believe in the Belichick mantra of "You are what your record says you are." If a Gp/CC looks at my ROP and thinks of me as trash, then I'm trash. My Wing is pretty small and I am the only 05 YG member going up for promotion in my entire Group. Hell, I might be the only 05 YG guy in the Wing. Simply because we have far more enlisted than officers period.

 

Disagree with the “you are what your record says you are.”  How many dirtbags can we all think of with stellar records on paper that are now in command/06s? There was a time not too long ago that the best records were those of the Christmas party planners, the ones who did masters work instead of studying the airplane as copilots and generally the biggest brownnosers. Heck those people still sort of thrive. Likewise, I am sure we can think of a few dudes that everyone of our peers respect in and out of the airplane that aren’t on any “command track.”

[Champ Kind]

Let me self correct. I don't view all records this way, just my records. I'm very big picture when dealing with others. However, I understand how the old promotion mindset works. If you understand the system and push against it, then be prepared not to be promoted. After the Gp/CC and WG/CC looks over my ROP and PRF,  I am not going to cry if I receive a "P." They can have that opinion, but I'm a leader that wants to change the system and it starts with all of us here.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you aren’t changing much of anything if you don’t get promoted.

[IDALPHA]

1 hour ago, Champ Kind said:

 

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you aren’t changing much of anything if you don’t get promoted.

 

What would he be able to change if he was?

[BashiChuni]

Most change will come with dudes voting with their feet. Just look at the lightning change to the change AFI IRT advanced flying ADSC

[Champ Kind]

What would he be able to change if he was?

Valid point. Minimal. But even in a relatively small sample size such as a single squadron, it is still better than nothing.

[MooseClub]

^exactly. 

If people don’t leave (i.e. affect the msn) why would the AF ever change the way it does business. Unfortunate it takes that in order for the AF to consider real change. 

[Champ Kind]

Most change will come with dudes voting with their feet. Just look at the lightning change to the change AFI IRT advanced flying ADSC

There wasn’t enough time between that AFI change breaking and it getting fixed to put more of a dent in the AF’s pilot retention problem. I think that change same about because of the quick backlash on social media.

[ImNotARobot]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you aren’t changing much of anything if you don’t get promoted.

I’ve blocked this clown... if we can’t kick him off the board, we can at least not quote him. For the love of all that’s holy.


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[ThreeHoler]

There wasn’t enough time between that AFI change breaking and it getting fixed to put more of a dent in the AF’s pilot retention problem. I think that change same about because of the quick backlash on social media.

There were quite a number of upgrades and other advanced flying training courses turned down in a short time. That plus the Facebook shaming led to quick action.

[IDALPHA]

5 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

 

Valid point. Minimal. But even in a relatively small sample size such as a single squadron, it is still better than nothing.

 

Far more impact when the top of the heap in the squadron gets passed over for useless dogsh1t. 

[Champ Kind]

 

There were quite a number of upgrades and other advanced flying training courses turned down in a short time. That plus the Facebook shaming led to quick action.

 

No doubt about that. But those turned down courses don’t immediately equate to separations. I wasn’t even halfway done with my UPT commitment when I went to IP school. It’s not like those all of those dudes said no to IPQ/PIT/whatever and then immediately punched. No argument that the AF probably lost out on some people due to requal though.

[GoodSplash9]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:18 AM, HarleyQuinn said:

Let me self correct. I don't view all records this way, just my records. I'm very big picture when dealing with others. However, I understand how the old promotion mindset works. If you understand the system and push against it, then be prepared not to be promoted. After the Gp/CC and WG/CC looks over my ROP and PRF,  I am not going to cry if I receive a "P." They can have that opinion, but I'm a leader that wants to change the system and it starts with all of us here.

They are definitely gonna need dudes that want to change the system...are you ready to make that sacrifice? I spent 5 years grinding as a Captain to put myself in position for 1 or 2 BTZ for O-5 to hopefully make a difference, and I consider myself (and my family) lucky that I was smart enough to call Knock It Off at this point in my career. 

To me SQ command is the best opportunity to make a difference for people...I realized in my neck of the woods (RPAs), that every commander I’ve known has been put in an under-resourced situation where they have to surge and treat people like a piece of crap because of it continuously. The fantasy of being a commander that fought the good fight to only do sustainable amounts of work, stiff arm BS by not tasking people with it(CFC, holiday parties, qweep, everyone gets a medal type awards, etc...), focus on quality mission execution, and help retain people died for me when I realized all of this would get me fired and put me at the bottom of the barrel unable to “change things”. I feel like it’s theoretically possible in a vacuum if leaders at multiple levels were ready to sacrifice and fight to do the right things, but the reality that we know is over half (my personal observations are around 2 out of 3) of the commanders up the chain are narcissistic careerists drooling for the opportunity to back stab their peers hoping to “progress” and “stratify”.

I hope it works out for you man...Its gonna be tough though if your fighting for “DP” without an influential advocate pushing for you (ask Ned Stark about HPOs). You’ve gotta at least make wing command to start making any difference....it’ll be almost impossible to go farther without a few years BTZ. And unless your a patch, almost none of the efforts on the way up will tie in with being a warrior or combat aviator. On the plus side, Ive been shocked at O-5 and school selects....indicators and rumint keep growing that o5/6 for everyone that stays are feasible. Different thing than being able to make a change though.

All of these reasons and 60+ hour weeks for almost nothing that mattered are why I woke up and said no to a Pentagon gig and wing exec before being blacklisted as a nobody. The good part is I’m doing everything I can to return to fly real planes...It’s like they don’t have any cockpits available though...active duty would rather lose a rated pilot than keep one with cross flow. That’s good for the Guard, Reserve, and me though I guess. //Rant complete...feel like I threw up in my own mouth to say nothing new on base ops//