Promotion and PRF Information

[BADFNZ]

11 hours ago, Lifer said:

I got passed over for O-5 last year IPZ. It’s definitely a kick in the nutz. It took some time working through the 5 stages of grief. I got my ATP and rushed a couple units and put in Palace Chase paperwork (which I found out got denied yesterday due to MDS manning BTW - I’m a KC-135 pilot who took the bonus to 20 years FWIW). Based on SAF PC’s denial rationale I’m expecting continuation but I’m ready for non-continuation or to deny continuation as I have a guard unit interested in hiring me if I choose. You definitely will have options if you spend some time looking at what’s out there. If you decide to stay in a pass over major who’s been continued does have some perks. 

 

Name does not check out

[panchbarnes]

17 hours ago, Notarobot said:

So sorry bro! This was me last year although I didn't see it coming at all! I spent about 6 months stuck between denial and anger, got scrolled, started taking to some reserve units and have a few backup plans in place for my 98% chance at getting passed over APZ. (Still waiting to hear anything official) I highly recommend scheduling feedback counseling with AFPC once you get your non select letter, it gave me some pointers for this year as well as a little closure. Hang in there

I'm curious about this AFPC feedback.  Is it some random AFPC GS-10 giving you feedback based on current year board stats?  How useful is the feedback?  Did you get honest feedback from your direct leadership before and after the board?  I haven't seen much non-rated O6 level mentoring prior to the boards, except at the MAJCOM level where the director tells you that you are at the top/middle/bottom of the top/middle/bottom percentile.  It's too bad.

[matmacwc]

Go ANG/AFRC, get promoted.  

[Notarobot]

2 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

I'm curious about this AFPC feedback.  Is it some random AFPC GS-10 giving you feedback based on current year board stats?  How useful is the feedback?  Did you get honest feedback from your direct leadership before and after the board?  I haven't seen much non-rated O6 level mentoring prior to the boards, except at the MAJCOM level where the director tells you that you are at the top/middle/bottom of the top/middle/bottom percentile.  It's too bad.

AFPC feedback was surprisingly helpful.  It was a Lt Col who was the head of promotions, he went over all of the board instructions and then he went through some stuff in my record that stood out to him that wasn't in my prf that he thought should have been and just some writing techniques to strengthen the PRF. And we discussed SSB procedures to see if I could qualify.  Ultimately he told me that my record was stronger than people who got promoted but my PRF didn't reflect that and that the board may have read something into it. 

My Rater and Senior Rater feedback was worthless. My SR in my feedback when I asked why I didn't earn a DP said "don't worry, you have a great record, you will get promoted " my rater only said that I was his #1 and our pool must have been competitive. 

[Jetpilot]

It's not about your record, it's about your bottom line strat and DP.  Nothing else matters.   

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

It's not about your record, it's about your bottom line strat and DP.  Nothing else matters.   

I mean, that is objectively not true.  We promote more people than we give DPs to.

[olevelo]

AFPC feedback was surprisingly helpful.  It was a Lt Col who was the head of promotions, he went over all of the board instructions and then he went through some stuff in my record that stood out to him that wasn't in my prf that he thought should have been and just some writing techniques to strengthen the PRF. And we discussed SSB procedures to see if I could qualify.  Ultimately he told me that my record was stronger than people who got promoted but my PRF didn't reflect that and that the board may have read something into it. 
My Rater and Senior Rater feedback was worthless. My SR in my feedback when I asked why I didn't earn a DP said "don't worry, you have a great record, you will get promoted " my rater only said that I was his #1 and our pool must have been competitive. 

That's odd. When I did it 2 years ago it was with Autumn, and every other person I've talked to who have done it also did it with her. I didn't really find it helpful. Mostly "you need more strats and FGO awards". I would still recommend doing it the first time tho just in case something pops out.

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[pawnman]

49 minutes ago, olevelo said:

That's odd. When I did it 2 years ago it was with Autumn, and every other person I've talked to who have done it also did it with her. I didn't really find it helpful. Mostly "you need more strats and FGO awards". I would still recommend doing it the first time tho just in case something pops out.

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Heard the same thing from a guy passed over with a DP.  It's when I started submitting 1206s every single quarter.

[Revpmd]

Well just got the word...second year with a Super P and a #4/42 Majors bottom line = passed over again.  So much for APZ being looked at the same as IPZ.  Good news...over 20 so somebody else will have to figure out how to fix it .

[Skitzo]

Well just got the word...second year with a Super P and a #4/42 Majors bottom line = passed over again.  So much for APZ being looked at the same as IPZ.  Good news...over 20 so somebody else will have to figure out how to fix it .

This along with the rumor of someone I know being passed over ATZ with a DP makes me wonder if there has been some radical change to the CSAF instructions to the board members.


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[ImNotARobot]

14 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Go ANG/AFRC, get promoted.  

Cannot emphasize this enough. This has been mentioned for years on this board, I'll let it percolate back to top. The timing on "in the zone" boards are much different in the ARC.

I left Active Duty just prior to my 1BPZ LtC board. Because I had a firm separation date, that PRF went to the board as Recommendation Only (blank 9-lines, just a P). As with all the double speak with OPRs/PRFs, the message was sent. This person is not promotable. I was not on AD when that 1BPZ board convened, nor the following year when my commissioning cohort met our IPZ board.

Then I get into the ARC, where everything is based on the FY in which I pinned on the current rank. ROPMA/DOPMA laws drive to 7 FYs in your rank. So in the fifth FY in my current rank, I meet the Position Vacancy (PV) board. My ARC PV board was roughly 2 years after my AD IPZ for LtC.

The PV board is loosely equivalent to an AD BPZ board, but with different rules. There is only 1 PV board, not like the 2BPZ & 1BPZ boards on AD. In order for your PRF to meet that board, there is one big requirement--you must occupy that next rank's position number on your unit's UMD. For instance, if you're meeting a LtC PV board, you must be in a LtC position number on the UMD. That simple administrative act allows your leadership to push your PRF to the PV board.

In the 6th FY in your current rank, you meet your "in the zone" ARC board. The universal requirement here is having a pulse, AND having your PME complete. That's it. Correspondence PME does the trick. After you've been selected for promotion and then enter the 7th FY in your current rank, your local leadership has the option to let you pin on at any time, not having you wait until the month where you'd actually be in your rank for 7 years. That's why you see a bunch of guys pinning on Maj / LtC on 1 Oct in the ARC...beginning on the 7th FY for those dudes/dudettes.

The timing of these boards mean that you could be passed over on AD promotion board timing, and not even have met your PV/IPZ board timing for the ARC.

So if the AD clownshow tells you you're a non-select, you know have actionable data to decline continuation and start getting prepped for interviews, both in the ARC and possibly airlines if that's your flavor. Don't forget...the pilot hiring era we are currently in is without historical precedent. There has literally never been a better time in the history of aviation to get hired as an airline pilot. It's a massive life change to get out, with a family or not...but try not to let the fear of the unknown drive your decision here. You've done harder shit than this. The time is now.

If I've said anything incorrect here, please correct me ARC bros. This info needs to get out to the guys on AD who are at decision time. Thanks.

[LookieRookie]

17 hours ago, ImNotARobot said:

Cannot emphasize this enough. This has been mentioned for years on this board, I'll let it percolate back to top. The timing on "in the zone" boards are much different in the ARC.

I left Active Duty just prior to my 1BPZ LtC board. Because I had a firm separation date, that PRF went to the board as Recommendation Only (blank 9-lines, just a P). As with all the double speak with OPRs/PRFs, the message was sent. This person is not promotable. I was not on AD when that 1BPZ board convened, nor the following year when my commissioning cohort met our IPZ board.

Then I get into the ARC, where everything is based on the FY in which I pinned on the current rank. ROPMA/DOPMA laws drive to 7 FYs in your rank. So in the fifth FY in my current rank, I meet the Position Vacancy (PV) board. My ARC PV board was roughly 2 years after my AD IPZ for LtC.

The PV board is loosely equivalent to an AD BPZ board, but with different rules. There is only 1 PV board, not like the 2BPZ & 1BPZ boards on AD. In order for your PRF to meet that board, there is one big requirement--you must occupy that next rank's position number on your unit's UMD. For instance, if you're meeting a LtC PV board, you must be in a LtC position number on the UMD. That simple administrative act allows your leadership to push your PRF to the PV board.

In the 6th FY in your current rank, you meet your "in the zone" ARC board. The universal requirement here is having a pulse, AND having your PME complete. That's it. Correspondence PME does the trick. After you've been selected for promotion and then enter the 7th FY in your current rank, your local leadership has the option to let you pin on at any time, not having you wait until the month where you'd actually be in your rank for 7 years. That's why you see a bunch of guys pinning on Maj / LtC on 1 Oct in the ARC...beginning on the 7th FY for those dudes/dudettes.

The timing of these boards mean that you could be passed over on AD promotion board timing, and not even have met your PV/IPZ board timing for the ARC.

So if the AD clownshow tells you you're a non-select, you know have actionable data to decline continuation and start getting prepped for interviews, both in the ARC and possibly airlines if that's your flavor. Don't forget...the pilot hiring era we are currently in is without historical precedent. There has literally never been a better time in the history of aviation to get hired as an airline pilot. It's a massive life change to get out, with a family or not...but try not to let the fear of the unknown drive your decision here. You've done harder shit than this. The time is now.

If I've said anything incorrect here, please correct me ARC bros. This info needs to get out to the guys on AD who are at decision time. Thanks.

PV promotions have to be leveled based off overgrades on the UMD and they are based off billet type, AGR/TR/ART, etc...

Early pin on is something that still has to be requested from ARPC/whoever, but it's usually approved 

Edited July 6, 2019 by LookieRookie

[I don't exist]

12 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

PV promotions have to be leveled based off overgrades on the UMD and they are based off billet type, AGR/TR/ART, etc...

Yes, just because you’re in the next-higher-grade billet does not guarantee PV eligibility. It depends on how many people in the next higher grade are assigned vs how many are authorized.

[SocialD]

Just be careful of the state you choose.  Some states, as a matter of practice, force guys to ROPMA even to major, which is ridiculous.  I pinned on major 2-3 years before quite a few of my officer school classmates because of this.  The only guys in our squadron that went to ROPMA for major were the guys that didn't do SOS.  Maybe we're lucky that we don't have a bunch of O5s that just hang around forever, but few guys have to wait too long for O5 as well.  Occasionally a year wait, but few guys are actually forced to ROPMA.

Edited July 7, 2019 by SocialD

[zach braff]

Boss called me to the office today.  Made the O-5 cut.  PRF was a P, not even a Super P.  PRF that wasn’t great but records under it were good and definitely undercuts the “only the bottom line matters” theory (mine was meh), but it still worked out thankfully.

Anyway, cheers to those who made it.  Sorry to those who didn’t.  USAF gonna USAF and we can all find our way regardless - lord knows I had my backup plan lined up if it hadn’t worked out.

ZB

Edited July 8, 2019 by zach braff

[Excellius]

My big question is about continuation for next year, assuming I will not make the cut at 1APZ.  I’m all for continuing to 20 as a Major, but my fear is that I would just be separated instead.  Does anyone know about the continuation boards, and rates on the people not offered continuation?  I’ve looked at the past few years here, and seen that everyone passed over has been offered continuation.

[olevelo]

My big question is about continuation for next year, assuming I will not make the cut at 1APZ.  I’m all for continuing to 20 as a Major, but my fear is that I would just be separated instead.  Does anyone know about the continuation boards, and rates on the people not offered continuation?  I’ve looked at the past few years here, and seen that everyone passed over has been offered continuation.

After the great debacle of 2012, its going to be awhile before they don't offer continuation to everyone, unless there's something in your records to warrant not offering it. The bigger question is whether you'll be offered 20 or 24 years. The board instructions are usually posted on MyPers that outlines which AFSCs each year are considered critical skills and therefore will be offered 24. They make mistakes though...last year I was only offered 20 instead of 24 because my duty history looked funky, but I got them to correct it (I needed the 24 years so AFIT didn't kick me out of my PhD program!).

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[Excellius]

No I don’t have any QFI’s on my record.  Last year I went DQ from flying due to medical, but the big AF decided to choose to let me continue to serve instead of Med Board me...I had to go through that process though.  The DP2NP via a RILO returned me to duty.

Its just the uncertainty of being continued, but if it’s only if you have a QFI that you don’t get offered it, then that would make me feel more secure.

[pawnman]

Well boys, looks like 1206's and being in the top 20% of your wing's FGO ranks is not enough to get promoted.

I guess either way I can stop filling out awards packages and worrying about it.

[celtic020]

11 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Well boys, looks like 1206's and being in the top 20% of your wing's FGO ranks is not enough to get promoted.

I guess either way I can stop filling out awards packages and worrying about it.

Damnit Pawnman are you F’ing serious?  What a joke.  Sorry man.   

[Danger41]

Dang man. That’s a bummer. Sorry to hear that.

[pawnman]

7 minutes ago, celtic020 said:

Damnit Pawnman are you F’ing serious?  What a joke.  Sorry man.   

100% serious.  As long as I can get continued to 24, then the bonus means I'll get paid like a LtCol, at least.

I'll post my redacted PRF when I'm not on leave.

[SFG]

8 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I'll post my redacted PRF when I'm not on leave.

Sorry to hear this. We are living in strange times indeed. Thank you for still helping others even when the AF has punched you in the gut.

I have to wonder, and hope, if competitive categories will put our APZers back in play...

[tac airlifter]

Sorry bro, that’s unfortunate news.

[pawnman]

9 minutes ago, Klepto said:

Sorry to hear this. We are living in strange times indeed. Thank you for still helping others even when the AF has punched you in the gut.

I have to wonder, and hope, if competitive categories will put our APZers back in play...

Not holding out much hope for that.