Promotion and PRF Information

[Tommy]

Good luck ya’ll. 90% is pretty good odds. But as a 2x APZ’er I’m not gonna hold my breath.

[pawnman]

15 minutes ago, Lifer said:

Good luck ya’ll. 90% is pretty good odds. But as a 2x APZ’er I’m not gonna hold my breath.

I'm not exactly confident as a 1xAPZ with a P.  But I can retire on 50% of O-4 pay, so I'm not exactly concerned either.

[HuggyU2]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:05 AM, Muscle2002 said:

Six years ago, a retired two-star told a group of us he believed the AF would eventually get to a point where if you hung around, you would be promoted. 

Who was it that said that?

[Muscle2002]

8 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Who was it that said that?

Huggy,

It was this guy. Granted, I don’t recall every detail of the discussion, but the implication was that AF life would get tougher (due to attrition) and then eventually better for those who stuck around because of increased opportunities.

[pawnman]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:05 AM, Muscle2002 said:

Late last year, the AF implemented a program to allow senior Colonels to stay on an extra three years beyond the mandatory retirement time of thirty years TAFCS. The increased promotion opportunity and attempts to retain senior Colonels suggests the AF does not have enough for the out years. 
 

Six years ago, a retired two-star told a group of us he believed the AF would eventually get to a point where if you hung around, you would be promoted. It seems like we’re almost at that point. 

Yeah, about that...

[soupafly06]

Any other 2+ APZ types here get blank PRFs back from their SRs (despite it being only two lines) or am I just that good?  I get that the odds probably didn’t change significantly for APZ  because we haven’t moved to the five year window yet but just curious if other SRs didn’t think it worth their time to bother with even a two liner for their previously passed over guys as well.  

[jrizzell]

49 minutes ago, soupafly06 said:

Any other 2+ APZ types here get blank PRFs back from their SRs (despite it being only two lines) or am I just that good?  I get that the odds probably didn’t change significantly for APZ  because we haven’t moved to the five year window yet but just curious if other SRs didn’t think it worth their time to bother with even a two liner for their previously passed over guys as well.  

Unfortunately those of us APZ types are at the mercy of their SRs “personal preference” when it comes to how you PRF is presented. It always bothered me having to complete one, then seeing it leave blank

[14N Guy]

3 hours ago, soupafly06 said:

Any other 2+ APZ types here get blank PRFs back from their SRs (despite it being only two lines) or am I just that good?  I get that the odds probably didn’t change significantly for APZ  because we haven’t moved to the five year window yet but just curious if other SRs didn’t think it worth their time to bother with even a two liner for their previously passed over guys as well.  

I had an O-5 tell me I could do that if I wanted to. I won’t get promoted, but I want the AF to have to tell me no again. Don’t want to make the decision for them.

[soupafly06]

2 hours ago, jrizzell said:

Unfortunately those of us APZ types are at the mercy of their SRs “personal preference” when it comes to how you PRF is presented. It always bothered me having to complete one, then seeing it leave blank

That's the second SR that's done this, with their policy being "I won't send a filled in PRF for any 2+ APZ."  For those smarter than me, is that a policy thing or an unwritten rule somewhere?  Is it really too much to ask for a board to spend all of three minutes reviewing my package (STS)?  I understand the calculus about odds and all that but it feels like a slap to the face when an organization believes you’re not worth two lines and three minutes, no matter your contribution.

Thanks for letting me vent.  These are crazy times and there are more important things but this time of year usually gets me riled up for a couple of weeks until I accept my standing  in this place again.  Stay safe out there 

[Muscle2002]

13 hours ago, soupafly06 said:

That's the second SR that's done this, with their policy being "I won't send a filled in PRF for any 2+ APZ."  For those smarter than me, is that a policy thing or an unwritten rule somewhere?  Is it really too much to ask for a board to spend all of three minutes reviewing my package (STS)?  I understand the calculus about odds and all that but it feels like a slap to the face when an organization believes you’re not worth two lines and three minutes, no matter your contribution.

Thanks for letting me vent.  These are crazy times and there are more important things but this time of year usually gets me riled up for a couple of weeks until I accept my standing  in this place again.  Stay safe out there 

I wonder if it is not a holdover from the old PRF; I recall that MAJCOMs allowed SRs to leave BPZ and 2+ APZ blank when PRFs were nine lines. Leaving them blank now does seem to run counter to the idea that the AF has built more "on-ramps" for officers who were late bloomers, made early mistakes, were trapped in assignments due to manning policy, etc. It is not as though writing two lines requires a significant time commitment; the great American novel it is not. Moreover, the two-line PRF intended to force a full records review. 

Ultimately, I never thought the corporate AF would begin to care about individuals, but I did and still do expect leaders to mentor those below them (whether shiny pennies or not). It is a responsibility of command. At a minimum, the SR owes the officer an explanation for the blank PRF; but then again, I have never received direct feedback when receiving my signed PRF. The one time I received feedback, it was from my Wg/CC, not the SR (for O-5 and above). That particular Wg/CC is not the norm, unfortunately. He held one-on-one feedback sessions with each officer whose PRF he signed much as the AFI requires. I do not think I am in the minority in my experience, and I wish there were more officers who took mentoring and feedback seriously.

[war007afa]

20 hours ago, soupafly06 said:

Any other 2+ APZ types here get blank PRFs back from their SRs (despite it being only two lines) or am I just that good?  I get that the odds probably didn’t change significantly for APZ  because we haven’t moved to the five year window yet but just curious if other SRs didn’t think it worth their time to bother with even a two liner for their previously passed over guys as well.  

Dick move.  It costs absolutely zero fucking effort to write two lines (which are already handed to you and scrubbed by about 8 different layers of the Bobs in between!) and give a chance to a record to succeed.  In fact, it takes MORE effort to go in and delete everything after it's gone up.  Such a waste of manpower in the end.  Sorry this is your situation, brother...

[soupafly06]

9 hours ago, war007afa said:

Dick move.  It costs absolutely zero ing effort to write two lines (which are already handed to you and scrubbed by about 8 different layers of the Bobs in between!) and give a chance to a record to succeed.  In fact, it takes MORE effort to go in and delete everything after it's gone up.  Such a waste of manpower in the end.  Sorry this is your situation, brother...

This x1000.  When my PRF went up for the O-4 board my SR at the time tracked me down (I had since PCS’d and did a feedback session with me over the phone.  He was an O-7 and even then promotion to O-4 was pretty much a given but he took the time to go over the PRF, explain his rating, and ask about my concerns.  I had no idea that this was going to be the exception and not the norm.  Ever since, for all my O-5 PRFs I got the PRF back from the SR in an envelope with a canned MFR and a “If you have any questions let me know within (usually 48 hours) or else we’re sending it to AFPC.” 

Ultimately it’s on me.  I should have had the courage to call them out on this type of BS but I never did.  Maybe someone can learn from this and understand that you can never assume leadership 2-3 levels up from you knows who you are and has your interests at heart.  Also know if you’re APZ, you’ll probably never break out of the bottom of your org’s strat pile, no matter what mountains you move.

I hate sounding so bitter, on the bright side I’m still getting paid in these crazy times, haven’t caught Kung Flu (yet) and already have my next assignment in hand (1st choice on the ADP and back to flying the line).  One of the benefits of being passed over is the man doesn’t really care where you go so you’re essentially a free agent!  

[streak]

https://www.afpc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2137211/air-force-postpones-boards-due-to-covid-19-restrictions/
 

Boards scheduled for 8 June have been postponed, but 4 May board (LAF LtCol) still on schedule.

[mcbush]

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, mcbush said:

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

You're thinking too far ahead.  It'll be moved, but not until something like the last week of April.

[Motofalcon]

Fingers crossed...my last acsc course finishes a week before the original board date. If it slips, maybe I can actually get “complete” on my SURF/OPB...

[Homestar]

Seems like something that could be done virtually over the internets.

[HU&W]

6 hours ago, mcbush said:

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

Yes

[drewpey]

11 hours ago, mcbush said:

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

O-7 by 24 years bro!  Can't fall behind in the joint rat race!

[GKinnear]

6 hours ago, drewpey said:

O-7 by 24 years 

We skipped the O-4 board for an entire year in 2014 or 15. Command selections may have to be rethought, but we've already set the precedent to delay a pole-year milestone.

Also...I think it's now at 28 years

Edited April 7, 2020 by GKinnear

[dream big]

On 4/7/2020 at 12:26 AM, drewpey said:

O-7 by 24 years bro!  Can't fall behind in the joint rat race!

Thankfully that’s no longer a thing, now 0-6s have three looks for 0-7 as opposed to that stupid 1 look / pole year concept. 

[VariEze]

Late last year, the AF implemented a program to allow senior Colonels to stay on an extra three years beyond the mandatory retirement time of thirty years TAFCS. The increased promotion opportunity and attempts to retain senior Colonels suggests the AF does not have enough for the out years. 

 

Six years ago, a retired two-star told a group of us he believed the AF would eventually get to a point where if you hung around, you would be promoted. It seems like we’re almost at that point. 

 

Apparently there’s some truth..? I’m a “well north of 2xAPZ” iron Maj that was surprised to see a “Definitely Promote!” At the end of line 2 and the DP box marked. From a 2-star SR to boot. Come onnnnnnnn 90+%! Ha

[jrizzell]

 
Apparently there’s some truth..? I’m a “well north of 2xAPZ” iron Maj that was surprised to see a “Definitely Promote!” At the end of line 2 and the DP box marked. From a 2-star SR to boot. Come onnnnnnnn 90+%! Ha

For all the smoke and mirrors and “changes” to the system, this is really what it always boils down to. If you’re able to get that DP as an APZ major, looking at past statistics, you’ll be extremely competitive. May the odds be ever in your favor!

[General Chang]

On 4/17/2020 at 11:37 PM, VariEze said:

 

Apparently there’s some truth..? I’m a “well north of 2xAPZ” iron Maj that was surprised to see a “Definitely Promote!” At the end of line 2 and the DP box marked. From a 2-star SR to boot. Come onnnnnnnn 90+%! Ha

You will absolutely get picked up.

[CaptainMorgan]

Just got my PRF. Anyone know where “Promote now” ranks in the hierarchy of pushes?  Obviously, “If I had one more DP,” or “Definitely Promote” with a P would have been better. On the E side, Promote Now beats Must Promote, is the same true for Os in the eyes of the board?