Promotion and PRF Information

[Dogs-N-Guns]

On 4/20/2023 at 8:48 PM, Dogs-N-Guns said:

Most people I work with expect me to be on the O-6 list this summer. However, I think I am done, enrolled in TAP, planning retirement. Assuming I get selected, would I be an idiot for walking away and retiring at 20?

Update: O-6 select, retiring 1 Mar 24.

[pawnman]

22 minutes ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

Update: O-6 select, retiring 1 Mar 24.

Congrats. Both on selection and retirement. 

[BeefBears]

1 hour ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

Update: O-6 select, retiring 1 Mar 24.

Good on you for resisting that O-6 carrot.  Start collecting that pension on top of whatever you end up doing next.  I plan to do the same if offered O-6. 

[polcat]

Is O-6 really a carrot these days? Congrats @Dogs-N-Guns, I just received my approval for retirement.

[dream big]

15 hours ago, polcat said:

Is O-6 really a carrot these days? Congrats @Dogs-N-Guns, I just received my approval for retirement.

I’m sure @General Chang has some thoughts? 

[GKinnear]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

I’m sure @General Chang has some thoughts? 

Dude, stop.

I only get so many down votes a day...

[justlooking]

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/usaf-officer-promotion-boards-2024/

 

Does this mean 2011yr group majors going for 0-5 board will change from 2025feb to now 2024Nov? If so, now I need to speed up my masters......

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, justlooking said:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/usaf-officer-promotion-boards-2024/

 

Does this mean 2011yr group majors going for 0-5 board will change from 2025feb to now 2024Nov? If so, now I need to speed up my masters......

No, make it a PhD, while shifting the goalposts, why not...

[mcbush]

Did they re-unmask AAD on O-4 and O-5 boards? Guess it’s been about long enough for the pendulum to swing back the other way

[The46IsntThatBad]

1 hour ago, mcbush said:

Did they re-unmask AAD on O-4 and O-5 boards? Guess it’s been about long enough for the pendulum to swing back the other way

They did for the O-4 boards. It's unmasked, but we were assured over and over that it wouldn't affect the results. Most of the pilots I know don't have anything beyond a bachelor's, so I'm not sure how much it will affect the results of the board. However, I don't like seeing these Lts and young Captains scrambling to start a Master's degree when they should be focusing on being great copilots and officers. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by The46IsntThatBad

[DFRESH]

6 hours ago, justlooking said:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/usaf-officer-promotion-boards-2024/

 

Does this mean 2011yr group majors going for 0-5 board will change from 2025feb to now 2024Nov? If so, now I need to speed up my masters......

Yes. You can read the PSDM on MyFSS. Changes things for school vs PCS decision timing. Speaking of school.... anybody got that list yet?

[Khruangbin33]

Just looking for some advice here.  Short background: did some time as a nav before reclassing to pilot in a different MWS, eventually non-vol'd to a non-fly deployment in my first post-UPT ops tour.  This added about a year to my upgrade timeline.  While deployed, managed to earn a top 3 AEG O-4 strat on an LOE.  Returned to home station and was strat'd bottom 50% in the next OPB.

Subjectively, I don't think I'm a POS.  In garrison I bust my ass off.  I am complete with ACSC and Masters will be done next spring.  Weak points are zero awards and, due to becoming a pilot, being roughly 7 years behind my peer group in terms of my current MWS experience/crew position upgrades.

I have one OPB left before my O-5 board, with an ADSC several years beyond that.  Do I have any end game orthogonal pulls left to turn this thing around or do I embrace my lot in life and focus on being a solid pilot and a bro for whatever time I have left?

[mcbush]

How long have you been in your current Sq/Wg? Are you going to have continuity there all the way through your O-5 board?

If the goal is making O-5, a good PRF push from someone that knows and cares about you is going to help a lot. Best move in that case is probably just to embrace the suck and go be an exec for the Wg/CC, NAF/CC, or someone similar for the next couple years. Otherwise, like you said, just embrace it, do what you can where you can, and let the chips fall where they may.

[StoleIt]

1 hour ago, Khruangbin33 said:

words

Provided you don't have any skeletons in your record (or get a DNP) you should still make O-5, you'll just pin on later in the FY year (Sept is the last month) since it's all strat based now and not EAD. Only downside is that it effectively shorts you of the higher pay (O-5 base & BAH) for a couple months.

[Khruangbin33]

@mcbush @StoleIt Been at the current sq/wg for minimal time, so I'll have continuity all the way through boards 1, 2, and the selective continuation board.  No skeletons, just a lot of ground left to make up.  Not overly concerned with the short term $$, just would like to have the opportunity to retire as an O-5 and leave the door open for O-6 if I decide I want to keep going.  Totally understand that is highly aspirational at this point in the game.

[brabus]

Personally I wouldn’t kill yourself running the rat race. Be a good bro, work your ass off to become a solid IP, and let the chips fall where they may (and enjoy the thing I assume you did this all for - flying airplanes). Then get out ASAP and go to the guard.

[Dogs-N-Guns]

I always hated awards. Thankfully awards meant very little in my experience. I declined the extra paper work whenever asked to write my own nomination package for flavor of the month/qtr/year. When it was my turn to lead, I did my best and wrote packages for awards I thought we could win, but had zero issues submitting negative replies. Selected for O-6 this year (IPZ) and my only award was a flt/cc of the quarter squadron award as a consultation prize for getting non-vol'd for an MC-12 deployment. Promotion seems all about strats, with the denominator of the strat being crucial. Six more months until I retire.

[Danger41]

With IDE complete and no skeletons, you should make O-5 no problem. 

[pawnman]

11 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

With IDE complete and no skeletons, you should make O-5 no problem. 

About that.. 

Although hopefully it's gotten better with the competitive categories. 

[di1630]

Don’t worry about not having the flying credentials of your peers….the USAF doesn’t care much about your actual flying resume.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[NKAWTG]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:32 AM, Khruangbin33 said:

Just looking for some advice here.  Short background: did some time as a nav before reclassing to pilot in a different MWS, eventually non-vol'd to a non-fly deployment in my first post-UPT ops tour.  This added about a year to my upgrade timeline.  While deployed, managed to earn a top 3 AEG O-4 strat on an LOE.  Returned to home station and was strat'd bottom 50% in the next OPB.

Subjectively, I don't think I'm a POS.  In garrison I bust my ass off.  I am complete with ACSC and Masters will be done next spring.  Weak points are zero awards and, due to becoming a pilot, being roughly 7 years behind my peer group in terms of my current MWS experience/crew position upgrades.

I have one OPB left before my O-5 board, with an ADSC several years beyond that.  Do I have any end game orthogonal pulls left to turn this thing around or do I embrace my lot in life and focus on being a solid pilot and a bro for whatever time I have left?

Information is a bit dated, so please take it with a grain of salt.  Sounds like you'll fall into the category of boxes checked with P instead of DP.  For the fighters, that would be a 50/50 toss up on promotion, and if you're a heavy MWS, it's more like 1 in 4 chance of promotion.  If your senior rater doesn't know who you are, you are not getting a DP.

The flying experience is completely irrelevant to the boards.  The non vol deployment indicates leadership who is not grooming you for bigger and better things.  There's away a chance, but you'd be better off prepping for your next phase in life than chasing that last rank before you hit 20.     

[Biff_T]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:35 PM, NKAWTG said:

flying experience is completely irrelevant to the boards.  The non vol deployment indicates leadership who is not grooming you for bigger and better things.  There's away a chance, but you'd be better off prepping for your next phase in life than chasing that last rank before you hit 20.     

I have experience not being promoted.  I retired in 2018 as a twice passed over O-3E.  I made O-4 after I retired (board was not on time and convened too late to matter lol) got the certificate and everything.  Nobody but your peers care about how good of stick you are (sts).  It's unfortunate, but that's the way it was when I was in.  I wrote awards for my airmen, I helped write OTS packages for a few (one even became an 11H) but refused to write any for myself.  I loved flying and my brothers and sisters (there were some bad ass female 11Hs) I flew with. I had some awesome Sq/CCs and DOs as an 11H as well.  But if you’re not in the plan, it doesn't matter.  I had a clean record (No trouble), I just chose to stay at the squadron level instead of taking the jobs that get you promoted. Prior to my promotion boards, I was a flt CC in a big squadron,  I was the CCV/Chief for a few  years in another one while balancing the budget for that sqd as well.  I didn't care if it looked bad on my record, it was what I needed to do to help my CC at the time, he was my brother.   If your peers were in charge of  promoting people, the good sticks would have an edge but that's not how it worked when I was in.  The board doesn't care if you can fly the shit our of your MWS, they are looking for the "clues" from leadership that you're part of the plan.  

 

Edit 2: Nothing against my 11H CCs and DOs all solid (for the most part lol).  They told me it was a bad idea to just fly.  I just liked it too much.. lol and beer and ladies lol.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Biff_T
Clarification

[Khruangbin33]

Thanks for the information everyone.  Your replies constitute more mentorship than I've received in real life over the last four years, which I suppose is telling in and of itself.  I'll continue controlling the the stuff I can control, remaining an asset to leadership and the young bucks, and making sure I am prepared for whatever big blue decides to do with me.

[dream big]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:33 AM, Khruangbin33 said:

Thanks for the information everyone.  Your replies constitute more mentorship than I've received in real life over the last four years, which I suppose is telling in and of itself.  I'll continue controlling the the stuff I can control, remaining an asset to leadership and the young bucks, and making sure I am prepared for whatever big blue decides to do with me.

What’s your timing to IP qual? If you’re worried about making 0-5, this last board the trend I saw for most who didn’t make it is no school nor staff (with just a P). If you are going to make IP soon I’d consider biting the bullet and volunteering for a staff assignment to move next summer and then meet your board following year. If you are confident about getting a DP at your wing then I’d just stay put so you can keep flying. Bottom line, you need to sit your leadership down and make them give you feedback and what their plan for you is. 

[Khruangbin33]

BLUF, I assess that my presentation to the board will be as an as an AC with a P, school boxes checked via correspondence, and a pro forma PRF.  That said, I will go get an official vector from leadership.

Don't want to get into specifics and dox myself, so long story short I'm probably 14 months from IP qual.  That won't make it into my record before the board.  Won't be eligible for staff next year because I won't meet time on station requirements to be considered for a move.  Was also told not to go to staff without making IP because I would end up in MLR with a weak record.  Drilling down to root causes here, there were about 6-9 major career/life decisions I made in the last several years which sent me down this path, so the only person I have to blame is me.