Promotion and PRF Information

[Champ Kind]

Who, exactly, are "your" people? Are you a sq training shop chief with an over-inflated sense of value or something based on the three people you rate on?

[disgruntledemployee]

Bah blah blah..

If a flyer and non-flyer look pretty even for a slot how do you break the tie if one has an AAD and the other one hasn't even attempted one? Is it actually fair to have a board that mimics what a promotion board does but solely for SOS slots?

You select the best leader. Leadership is not measured by how much AAD you can attain. This isn't a Cyber Awareness CBT of Farmville.

So if I'm the selector of SOS attendees, and my leaders are sitting at the table with their lists of potentials and its time to pick the next one and its between the flyer and the non-flyer, I'd start with "state your case." The first one that mentions AAD will get the response of "big whoop-dee-doo, got anything that means something?"

You see, the point is that anyone can enroll in school and get pretty certificates to hang on the wall. It takes about zero leadership potential to do that and some self-motivation. But you keep on singing the AAD song and its stuck in your head like a bad one hit wonder. You look silly singing it out long all day except to the boss that has the same lame-ass song stuck in his head too.

Out

[Danny Noonin]

I don't think there is rock big enough at Stonehenge that we can cram down your throat for you to shut up.

Says the dude with 60+ posts in this thread

[tunes]

Why must you always derail the topic and make the discussion about utter nonsense? I don't think there is rock big enough at Stonehenge that we can cram down your throat for you to shut up. We know who suffers from ADHD in this forum. Get that checked out.

We aren't talking about how many people I rate. They are my people because they are my responsibility.

I for one think its very pertinent to know what your office job is.

[tunes]

You select the best leader. Leadership is not measured by how much AAD you can attain. This isn't a Cyber Awareness CBT of Farmville.

So if I'm the selector of SOS attendees, and my leaders are sitting at the table with their lists of potentials and its time to pick the next one and its between the flyer and the non-flyer, I'd start with "state your case." The first one that mentions AAD will get the response of "big whoop-dee-doo, got anything that means something?"

You see, the point is that anyone can enroll in school and get pretty certificates to hang on the wall. It takes about zero leadership potential to do that and some self-motivation. But you keep on singing the AAD song and its stuck in your head like a bad one hit wonder. You look silly singing it out long all day except to the boss that has the same lame-ass song stuck in his head too.

Out

at my last base the OG would say getting your AAD only shows big blue that you can do what you are told....He would also say he thought it shouldn't be a factor in any promotion decision but it was above him so he recommended you get it done.

[ChiefSlapahoe]

I really hope the lurkers on this board who are young and trying to learn a lesson on how to be a good leader takes some notes on these discussions. If you've resorted solely to checkmarks to determine leadership then you are doing your troops a severe injustice. Case in point:

You have to rack and stack three dudes based off these metrics alone (simplified yes, but proving a point):

- Commission Class Ranking

- AAD complete by O-4

Dude 1:

- 46/103

- No

Dude 2:

- Top Half

- No

Dude 3:

- 5/100

- Yes

In today's AF structure, Dude 1 and 2 would get passed over for school (and probably promotion) and Dude 3 would be fat, dumb, and happy. Except...

Dude 1: General Patton

Dude 2: General Eisenhower

Dude 3: Some dude who flies for the airlines.

The laziest leaders are the ones who solely use a few checkboxes, BMI measurements, and in-res SOS by the second lunar cycle of the fourth equinox to determine who's a leader and who isn't. CC's should know each of their dudes and give them feedback, regularly. And slick, it sounds like your O-6 is a douche but I think it's reasonable to ask your CC to ask what the O-6 expects to see and learn from it. Yes, he/she's in charge but you can sometimes learn more from bad leadership than good.

[Champ Kind]

We aren't talking about how many people I rate. They are my people because they are my responsibility.

Credibility is everything in this business. You may be able to rise through the ranks without it thanks to our promotion/development process, but those that do fail to receive anything more than the basic respect that their rank/position dictates.

Let me spell it out for you:

You are coming across as a twerp. No one is taking you seriously. You like to throw around phrases like "look out for my guys" which insinuates that you are in some position of authority. By "position of authority", I specifically mean squadron command. The remaining content of your posts clearly contradicts that, though. You sound like a pure and utter tool. Like that guy in ROTC/USAFA/wherever who thought that being the "Cadet Wing Commander" actually made him a Wing/CC.

You are under the impression that you have some type of control as to who goes to SOS and who does not. Or who gets promoted, and who does not. Unless you are on the one MAKING those decisions, you have no control over it. If you are indeed a direct supervisor (flight commander, shop chief, etc), I would recommend you focus on making sure "your guys" are ready to employ whatever task/weapon system they are charged with, and let the higher ups figure out how they want to un-fuck the officer development process. Trust me, if you are anything "in person" like the persona you exude on this forum, you will be sparing your subordinates a great deal of pain by refraining from offering any "mentoring".

at my last base the OG would say getting your AAD only shows big blue that you can do what you are told....He would also say he thought it shouldn't be a factor in any promotion decision but it was above him so he recommended you get it done.

I had one that called it "pay to play" and equated it to a price of admission in the same what that you go to a movie theater and are charged for a ticket.

[Champ Kind]

LOL. Thanks for giving me a laugh on this fine Saturday. Your co-workers in the MSG must think you're quite the bad ass when you pop off like that at the Anthony's Pizza cashier.

Rest assured, I have done and am doing just fine. Trust me though, I know your type very well. The layers are very easy to see through.

Let the hate flow, tool.

Did I say that I control anyones destiny? Did I say I select anyone for anything. Just because you can't comprehend me making sure people are taken care of at my level boggles my mind how you function in an actual squadron. Read the posts before responding and stop making asinine assumptions.

I have read the ridiculous drivel you post. Just when I think you can't get any more clueless, you astonish me.

Answer the question, shoe. How do you really think you are "helping" your people at your level? Writing nice things in their OPR push lines that get changed in the multiple edits anyway? Hooking them up by submitting them for a quarterly award that they have no chance of winning because its someone else's "turn"?

Edited September 14, 2013 by Champ Kind

[ak47]

This has been discussed in previous threads already. This discussion is about the AF Promotion process in general. People have a bone to pick about the AAD. I didn't make the rules for my base. I brief the expectations of the WG and GP CC's to the Lt's and Capt's I oversee. I don't want people to not be selected because they didn't adhere to what leadership expects to see on a surf in order to be selected for SOS in residence.

I can't speak for tunes directly, but I think he meant "your squadron job" as in what YOU specifically do. Like lets say you are the squadron scheduler?

One thing I absolutely hate about where I am right now is you. People like you. People who are so ######ing ate up about The Program. The Program is the only thing you've ever known because your previous community kicked you to the curb very early on. Because you've been with The Program from the beginning (Balad in 09-10, as you mentioned), you've been allowed to shape it, but because you're an asswipe, you've only spread your shit and allowed it to be a predominant mentality in these two squadrons. You're a leader here not because you were good, but because there was nobody else. That's part of the problem with the greater AF. You cite the guy with no AAD but SOS in res getting out and that it's a waste, but you also don't talk about the guys that get picked up for crossflow with AAD and SOS in res in hand and a school slot dropping papers. You've got your head so far up your ass you can't see that there are guys with incredible leadership records and potential getting out. (I know the stereotypical crossflow dude is a goo, but there are some awesome ones out there) Instead of debating, you resort to telling Champ to get the dildo out of his mouth. God help us if you are actually given a position of authority, because with your lack of creativity and outside the box thinking, you'll be the guy that relies on bullshit metrics for bullshit reasons. [/personal rant]

So back to the topic at hand, I've got a few masters classes left and haven't been to SOS, but nobody in my Sq who is actually in a position of power has told me I won't be going until I finish my masters. In fact, they've said the opposite - that I need to start coordinating for a slot. It's not as bad at slick's base as he'd like you to believe.

[Fifty-six & Two]

I've got to assume slick999 is a KC-10 guy. That's the only community that I've been around where dudes will blatantly tell you that the only reason they want to be an IP is so they can compete to be the wing exec.

Nope, C-130 copilot that got sent to MC-12s.

The Program is the only thing you've ever known because your previous community kicked you to the curb very early on.

Shack

[slackline]

So I'm supposed to go against a GP/CC and screw my people over by telling them not to do it? That's utter nonsense. Taking a stand and screwing airmen over will result in them not being promoted. I hope you aren't suggesting this methodology. Last time I checked, I don't sit on any boards and I did not put the selection process in place.

No. You really are a broken record, and what's worse is you refuse to see the reason proposed to you here on this board. That's probably because you have your head so far up your OG/CC's derrière that you can't see the light anymore.

You make them aware of what's expected, but you don't promote the same broken system. If you cared as much about your people as you said you did, you'd do everything you could to change the system. You'd tell your boss in a respectful and tactful way that you think his system is broken.

The real truth is though, that you care more about not hurting your career, so you play the game. Dude, people understand playing the game, that's fine, you care about keeping your job. Nothing wrong with that, but don't hide behind your pseudo magnanimous intentions. Be open with your guys about. They'll probably respect you more than they do now, if they do at all. I guarantee you they see right through your ridiculous act.

Last time I feed the troll. It's like talking to a wall.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[ak47]

Nope, C-130 copilot that got sent to MC-12s.

Ah, well I was wrong. Time to step back and reassess.

[matmacwc]

I think he's a ROTC cadet.

[10percenttruth]

The last time I saw a poster go so violently off the deep end so quickly, it was the 2nd (or possibly 3rd) reincarnation of PYB. Deja vú anyone?

[matmacwc]

Maybe, but his posts are too short and the attacks aren't like him.

Edited September 14, 2013 by matmacwc

[Fifty-six & Two]

You have no clue what you are talking about. If you can't post facts then I suggest you insert your foot in your mouth. But that's a nav for you.

You were an aircraft commander when you left Dyess? I may not have the copilot part right, but the rest I'm pretty sure of unless you are a liar.

slick999 said:

======================================================================

I'm a C-130 guy by trade. I've been with the MC-12 program from day 1 in Iraq.

Are those facts enough for you?

Also, not even butt hurt that you called me a nav. I give them their fair share of ribbings, but wouldn't trade them or flight engineers for anything. And FYSA, C-130 FTU evaluator pilot would be correct.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Fifty-six & Two

[Champ Kind]

Nope, C-130 copilot that got sent to MC-12s.

Proof positive that you can be on aeronautical orders and still be a "shoe".

MC-12s (and UAVs for that matter) were one of the best things to happen to the Herk world. All of the douches that couldn't fly and no one liked anyway filled that bill pretty quickly. Maybe things do have a way of working themselves out. Man, what a leper colony that community must be.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Champ Kind

[ak47]

Man, what a leper colony that community must be.

Truth.

[Lord Ratner]

"I'm a leader because there was nobody else." Leadership by default? Are you serious? You don't know my background or where I came from prior to commissioning. Seriously, I had officers, Chiefs, and high level civilians mentoring me at my first duty station. I must have flushed everything after commissioning.

I can assure you nobody kicked me anywhere. Another false assumption again. A well known CC put in a by name request to have certain individuals released to his specific MAJCOM. When the MAJCOM comes a knocking, what do you think will happen? Kicked to the curb is being forced out of your community and handed PCS orders to some place you don't want to go. I saw this happen a year after my PCS to individuals in my old community.

I still keep in touch with leadership from my previous community. They were awesome to me.

...Continue to Challenge!...

[StoleIt]

"I'm a leader because there was nobody else." Leadership by default? Are you serious? You don't know my background or where I came from prior to commissioning. Seriously, I had officers, Chiefs, and high level civilians mentoring me at my first duty station. I must have flushed everything after commissioning.

Well, multiple times, people on this board have inquired as to your experience (both in terms of leadership and flying) and you have been extremely uncooperative as to disclosing any information.

[ak47]

Well, multiple times, people on this board have inquired as to your experience (both in terms of leadership and flying) and you have been extremely uncooperative as to disclosing any information.

Rubbish, the clues are there. Here's what I've got: '05 year group Capt, deployed twice in the MC-12, once to Balad in '09-10, prior E, -130 guy, currently stationed at a West Coast base that doesn't have -17s, not deployed right now, and God's gift to leadership. Or he's been throwing some smoke grenades out the whole time.

It was the butler in the den with the candlestick.

[10percenttruth]

A well known CC put in a by name request to have certain individuals released to his specific MAJCOM. When the MAJCOM comes a knocking, what do you think will happen? Kicked to the curb is being forced out of your community and handed PCS orders to some place you don't want to go. I saw this happen a year after my PCS to individuals in my old community.

I still keep in touch with leadership from my previous community. They were awesome to me. They allowed me to thrive and do jobs that I requested. It has helped me at my current base. It was that awesome leadership that trickled down to me.

Holy shit, we've got ourselves a bad ass over here, you want a fvcking cookie?

Let me guess:

"A well known CC" = Cap'n Crunch?

"his specific MAJCOM" = Air Force Who Gives A Shit Command?

A by name request works both ways, as in "what dead weight do we need to drop? That guy, what's-his-name"

[Danny Noonin]

Slick, do me a favor. Stop posting in this thread unless you have a legitimate question. Your other posts are completely non value added. The derail is not all your fault, but it certainly revolves around you.

[17D_guy]

Rubbish, the clues are there. Here's what I've got: ...prior E...

Still always surprised when this happens, and more often than it should.. unless we're counting prior-E at E4 and below 5 years service. Then it doesn't count.

Somewhat of a question - I know they've pushed back the boards and there is no longer BTZ to O4. Is there a way currently to get promoted ahead of your peers? When I was an E you could always out test/SrA BTZ/STEP to get promoted ahead of the douches. I'm not seeing those opportunities on the O side, and I'm not sure if it's just not an MSG thing. I've asked around locally.. but it's all Space/Missile guys.

Please note, I'm not asking who's balls I have to wash/gargle. As I said in another post I can retire happily as a O3E, my dreams have been accomplished.

[LockheedFix]

Apparently you've never met anyone from the -17 community.

I have. They are a close second in this area.