AWACS perspective

[Guest repo]

Seems like the majority of folks dog the E-3, I was wondering if anyone has any good stuff to say about being an AWACS pilot. I read the "flying around in circles" and "stay out of the iron triangle" arguments from old posts, but it seems like it wouldn't be too bad being in ACC if you can't get into fighters/bombers. Do AWACS folks go to Red Flag and weapons school? Any talk of upgrading the jet? I'm from Oklahoma and wouldn't mind being able to stick around the area for some of my career, so any input would be well appreciated...

[ClearedHot]

I am not an AWACS guy so take this with a grain of salt.

1. Driving heavies in ACC is not usually a good thing unless you are at a separate wing like AWACS and the Bombers are. Things are somewhat different now that the composite wing structure is all but dead. In the old days there were horror stories when it came to PRF’s and awards.

2. AWACS go to EVERY Red Flag.

3. AWACS pilots do not go to Weapons School. However ABMs do.

4. I believe AWACS are like some of the other LDHD units, you can camp if you want to but might still get tagged for a white jet, UAV, or other Alpha type tour.

[ 14. October 2004, 18:52: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]

[scoobs]

From what I have heard AWACS is not a bad assignment.There not deployed as much as AMC.Usually gone 90-120 days.Also I heard they deploy to some nice locations.Base selection in not bad,Tinker,Elmendorf,and Europe.The guy I talked enjoyed it and said he gets a nice view of all the bombs being dropped.

[PapaJu]

scoobs, I guess there is a difference between base selection and base location, for Oklahoma and Alaska would not exactly be my first choices. :D

[ 14. October 2004, 16:29: Message edited by: wannaairlift ]

[scoobs]

I know what you mean.

[Guest navobd]

As far as bases, yes Oklahoma, Alaska, Germany, and Okinawa. Currently we are not deployed anywhere, but that may change. No we do not go to cool places. They're usually very hot places!! The places we stop on the way are usually awesome though. During times of deployment the 90-120 days is pretty accurate. I actually averaged less than that the past 5.5 years that I've been in "the fatkid". As for assignments while in AWACS, white jets are pretty easy to come by, the ocassional UAV does rear its ugly head, a JSTARS assignment is pretty easy to get, and that's about it unless you know people in the right places. A couple of guys have gone to U-2s and B-2s actually.

ABMers run the wing here and with so many officers, the pilot types usually get shorted but that doesn't mean there's no career progression. Most pilots here simply don't want to play the reindeer games the ABMs do. Flight deckers are second class in AWACS, the mission is in the back of the jet, not the front like in AMC. If you want to live in Oklahoma, you can camp out here very easily. I've been here since I finished UNT. These are simply my opinions, some will agree, some will not. My .02

[Mambo]

navobd...totally agree! Except for not going to cool places. If you want to go to cool places come to Kadena...Korea (great shopping), Thailand, Australia, mainland Japan, Vegas, Alaska. Seems like everyone at Tinker *****es about being there but never wants to leave.

We've had a nav here get the Airborne Laser and a pilot get T-6's.

We have "fat kids" parties over here with the RJ's, Tankers and Helo guys, (basically no fighter geeks). Not a bad time.

[Guest AWACker]

Okay, here's the deal. I'm a little drained from a nice little 10 hour "local" training sortie we got back from, so my answers might be a little more...jaded than they could be at other times. As far as flying around in circles...it's still flying. But...it's flying as a taxi service for 30 dudes in the back (with at least 4 or 5) whom all think they are the fight. We're mission support for mission support. And this is exactly why being flight deck on a heavy in ACC is not a good deal. At least on an ISR heavy...

This moves us into aircraft upgrades. The money in ACC flows down first to the fighters. That's fine. They're the ones closest to the bad people most of the time, so they get the cool toys. They need it to stay alive. Bombers get money too. Whatever scraps are left over eventually filter down, way down, until they get to AWACS. The flight deck of the AWACS is...uh...vintage. We're not RVSM capable, and probably won't be for another 4-5 years (yeah...right)...when it'll get too difficult to get waivers in the new airspaces. But enough about the plane. Simply put...ACC is not the place to fly a heavy...and ISR jets will always, no matter who owns them, be at the bottom of the funding pile. And even the new E-10 program is having funding problems, so don't expect that to happen for some time as well.

AWACS do go to Red Flag. But as far as operating from the flight deck, it's just another TDY. That means the main difference (big picture) is that instead of taking off from Tinker, and flying out to a coast, orbiting, and then driving back to Tinker, you take off at Nellis, orbit, and land at Nellis. I've still never made it to Red Flag, but from watching other people plan them, there's really no change in how we fly, just where we're doing it. ABMers and the like do go for the full Red Flag "experience", and attend all the mass briefing stuff that the flight deck really has no reason to bother getting involved in. For that matter, ABMers can go to Weapons School, but there is no such a thing for the AWACS pilots, nor should there be. Like I said, we drive the bus.

And if you really do like Oklahoma so much, there are other ways to get there. Altus...Vance...you can look into guard/reserve F-16's or C-130's at Tulsa and OKC...but I just can't, with good conscience, tell someone that AWACS is a good deal at all.

Deployment rates are another thing. Sure, the last year or so, AWACS hasn't gone anywhere...so our rates are really low. That won't last forever, and soon enough, we'll be on the road again like the rest of the AF. Only instead of just doing deployments over in the sandbox, we'll do that, plus all the other commitments AWACS has been stiff-arming for the last years. I don't plan to spend too much time in the next few years in Oklahoma.

And I don't know about what ClearedHot said, because I really don't love the way things are run around AWACS. Flying policy decisions come down from people that don't fly the plane, and that does bother me. The day before every flight (mission planning), you brief the DO or an ADO about what you're gonna do, and you get the fun questions about "why are you taking that fuel load?" from a guy who doesn't know the correct way to calculate the gas you need. Yeah, that's right...in...well...from what I can remember, all the AWACS squadrons at Tinker have MCC (basically, old ABMers) Squadron Commanders and DO's. The OG commander is a controller as well. Sure, they're qualified to do their controller stuff, but they are line flying squadrons...but the pilots aren't the ones who make the decisions at all. Even when you finally get into the air, the way "they" want the A/C to make his decisions in AWACS is to always call home to "mother Tinker" and ask for permission to do the littlest things. And if you're not fast enough on the draw to make your plane, then call back on your own to get permission from mommy...they got radios in back too, and you can bet the MCC on your plane has already called back and screwed up whatever plan you've worked out for what you're gonna do. I've got more *****es and gripes than I can type in one sitting, or two, or probably a full week, so I'll just cut my losses.

And a final thought. I know a dude that "chose" to go to AWACS. Liked the location, the lifestyle, and all that jazz. Now that he's here, he seems to have finally developed a decent, healty dislike for what we're doing, just like the rest of us.

[Mambo]

Many, many beers for AWACker...you have hit the nail on the head...that's right I said HEAD!!!!

Here's my bich...ABMer's that think they are fighter pilots just because they talk like them...guess what, you're not...get over it, ACT NORMAL!!!

By the way AWACker...LOVE your website!!!!!

Mambo the FE

[scoobs]

Well it looks like if your in flight school avoid the AWACS.

[scoobs]

And is it hard to get a base other then Oklahoma?

[Guest AWACker]

Originally posted by scoobs:

And is it hard to get a base other then Oklahoma?

As a pilot? Not really. But, according to the AFPC dude, you can expect to spend "6 out of your first 9" years in Oklahoma. You can leave, but they'll get you back.

[scoobs]

Thanks for the response.I met a guy at an airshow who got Alaska out of UPT.I don't know how often that happens.

[PapaJu]

AWACker, that post was gold man.

[pcola]

motivation to spend less time reading this board and more time studying...back to work

[HerkDerka]

Courtesy of Awacker:

[ 16. October 2004, 15:23: Message edited by: HercDriver24 ]

[M2]

What, no mention of NATO AWACS?!?

Cheers! M2

[ 16. October 2004, 17:34: Message edited by: MajorMadMax ]

[Guest AWACker]

The NATO AWACS site cracks me up. It also scares me a little, to tell you the truth. They've got some people out in Europe that are just insane for planes. I'll stick to my own site, thank you very much.

And any time I see someone post up a 'toon from my site, it makes me smile a little inside. Then it makes me die a little inside when I look at it, and realize that half of the 'toons (Hef's) look like they're drawn by a retarded 3rd grader. We're gonna have to teach that kid how to draw, one of these days.

[Guest repo]

What about flying for the reserve squadron there? Is that a good deal?

[Guest AWACker]

As far as I know it is. We fly with those dudes from time to time, and I imagine it's just like other reserve units with other airframes. Seamless. They laugh at all the crap we put up with, and we drool over them because they're reserve...

I'm betting that they deal a lot less with the crap we do active duty...just from the little I've seen. And I have yet to meet a sketchy dude from the 970th. A few of them are a little more...Cowboy...er...Cavailer than us, uptight, anal AD types, but we do like 'em.

But...they do fly AWACS. That right there should make you shudder with fear...which I'm trying my best to impart upon the fearless youngin's here on the board. Fear the dome...FEAR IT!

[Guest repo]

Thanks for the real-life perspective...I like the honesty. By the way, where is this website that the cartoon is from? Also, does the 970th hire dudes off the street?

[Guest AWACker]

I have no idea how the 970th operates like that. I'd imagine that they haven't had to hire off the street for some time, but you don't know unless you call 'em up and ask them.

And the website with Hef and Farva's AWACS 'toons on them is www.AWACker.com . Click on the picture to enter, then you can see 'toons either on the "new 'toons" link, or the "toon archive" link has (almost) all the old stuff. We're workin' on fixing it up some more, but it just takes time.

[Hacker]

Are you Hef?? I've been reading your sh*t over at the edodo for years...great stuff.

[Guest deweygcc]

Hows the E-8 compare? The goats the same?

[Guest AWACker]

Dewey-

As far as I know, JSTARS is simply our eastern sister. But...I haven't talked to many people that have been there (on assignment...hell, I've been there TDY, it's Tinker East. Or we're Robins West, who knows?). That means they probably have similar gripes and complaints. Although...

...I have talked to an enlisted guy that was there for some time. His main gripe was that he was an Active Duty guy, working in a combined AD/Guard wing. Said that, although it's praised in many a publication, the arrangement leads to some major difficulties in the admin side of the house, at least. I'd imagine for the pilots, flight deck, and other "aircrew", it's about the same as AWACS.

And as far as Robins being the Tinker of the east...here's my proof (I could be mistaken on some of this, so if I am, forgive me):

-Both bases are AFMC bases

-Both bases have large civilian presence

-Parking sucks in both places

-Both bases have an ISR airframe as a tenant unit on the base

-Both bases have a Combat Comm unit (3rd and 5th)

-Both bases have a depot, OKALC, and whatever the robins guys have.

And I apologize for the thread bump for those not interested.