NAS Whiting training info

[B.L]

So reporting in, should I go in blues, ABU's...??? I was looking into Pace or Bagdad, because Gulf Breeze is a little bit out of the way. My wife is in the GS system, and plans on staying that way, but when she called the CPO office down there, she was told that most of the jobs were contracted on Whiting. So the drive from Milton, or even to Bagdad isn't that bad (how about traffic from that area to Eglin?)? Also, this is a very random question, but I get down there in December, is it standard to get 10 (or 14) biz days to look for a house? So if I get that, then the time frame for me to report back would be Christmas week...which would mean that I would almost get the whole month of December off? Does that sound right, because logically, because of the dates, it sounds correct, but logically with the military mind frame, it does not.

Thanks for all your help guys, you're making this move MUCH easier! Any tips are appreciated.

BLud

[Guest 3GAF]

I would argue for living in downtown Pensacola, unless you have a compelling reason to live elsewhere, ie, your wife works at Eglin or you simply can't stand the thought of commuting for more than ten minutes each day.

I live right in the heart of downtown and love it. I can walk to/stumble home from some of the best bars in the area, be on the beach with beer in hand in 15 minutes, be sailing or diving in 20-30 minutes, and yet my commute is still a quick and easy 35-40 minutes. Living in Pace, you end up driving 30 minutes to Whiting and 30 minutes to downtown Pensacola, 45 minutes to the beach--worst of both worlds. NE Pensacola isn't bad if you can get something on or just off Scenic Hwy. Commute is only 30 minutes from there and is around ten minutes to downtown from most houses. I, for one, can't imagine living in Milton, Pace, or Bagdad when you could live so much closer to the beach. You'll have so much time down here before you actually begin flying it would almost be worth it to live downtown for 6 months, then move up to the Milton area once you're in a cockpit, if you really can't stand the commute.

Just my two cents...

Also, you guys are so lucky to be in the T-6. The paint scheme is awful-looking compared to the Air Force's version but the ride is so, so much sweeter than the T-34. Definitely worth any wait you have to go through down here. Word on the street is that first students will be classing up into the T-6 around the April/May time frame. I almost wish I could break a leg and drop back with you guys.

[fastnumber15]

New guys coming in....literally plan on having about a month off if your coming in the December time frame. You will get the first 2 weeks off...then go down to finance etc at P-Cola...get your NAMI physical...and then still have time off after that. Eventually you will probably work in the AFLO office or OPS, either of which are about 2-3 hours a day...3-4 days a week. There is so much down time...and yes your military bearing will be destroyed, but...as others say, you live in Florida. Whether your Pace, Milton, Bagdad...its all the same. P-Cola NAS is a good 50 minute drive from Whiting Field because of redlights, traffic, etc. From Bagdad it is about 30 minutes. I have found tons to do in Milton, especially if you like the outdoors, and dont mind a 30 minute max drive to the beach. If your looking for a really good rental house...best company around is Village Homes and Land...their application process is along the lines of "show me your military id".

[ygtbsm]

38's are easier to get from whiting especially if you have prior flight time. If you have PPL/Instrument its a sure thing. BUT, if you do get 38s prepare for a haze at Vance. Air Force students, ips, sim instructors all think you are a crappy pilot when you show up day one.

They think this because:

1) you don't know how an Air Force pattern works and you classmates do (a t-38 pattern is pretty much a t-6 pattern mirror image with the same concepts and radio calls)

2) you don't know the 11-217

3) You don't know tac form and your t-6 competition does (form check ride has the most weight for assignment night)

4) the list goes on and on

So because of this Creech is like a whiting reunion both t-1s and t-38s... Cheers!

Edited March 4, 2010 by ygtbsm

[ygtbsm]

Maybe..or you could study your ass off before you go to Vance after completing at Whiting. Besides, most guys have a 3-5 month wait between their last flight at Whiting and the time they class up at Vance.

The Air Force instructors at Whiting seem to think that same way you do. So they created "A-Forms". Essentially it was intended to be an attempt to "catch you back up" to the way Air Force Flys by adding 5 more formation flights to the program. But what it ended up being was a haze and if you don't perform you loose the 38. So, You spend that time studying for "A-forms" and preparing for a PCS.

[Magellan]

Maybe..or you could study your ass off before you go to Vance after completing at Whiting. Besides, most guys have a 3-5 month wait between their last flight at Whiting and the time they class up at Vance.

Your numbers are wrong. Within the last year the wait for t-1's was close to 4 months. i.e. tracked 19 March started Vance 6 July. T-38 guys at the same time were looking at getting in their cars and driving straight to Enid after their last A-Form flight. i.e. tracked Thursday, finished AFORMS 8 days later on Friday, and were in Enid on Monday.

So before you throw out the statements like study your ass off, and imply people coming from Whiting are lazy check your facts. Plus if studs coming from Whiting are so bad how come so many of them end up as FAIPS at Vance(at least in the T-1 Squadron) in a much higher ratio than that of their T-6 peers.

[Guest wannabeflyer]

38's are easier to get from whiting especially if you have prior flight time. If you have PPL/Instrument its a sure thing. BUT, if you do get 38s prepare for a haze at Vance. Air Force students, ips, sim instructors all think you are a crappy pilot when you show up day one.

They think this because:

1) you don't know how an Air Force pattern works and you classmates do (a t-38 pattern is pretty much a t-6 pattern mirror image with the same concepts and radio calls)

2) you don't know the 11-217

3) You don't know tac form and your t-6 competition does (form check ride has the most weight for assignment night)

4) the list goes on and on

So because of this Creech is like a whiting reunion both t-1s and t-38s... Cheers!

This is something that has been very true in my observation and no one really talked about it at Whiting. I went T-1s so I can't speak from experience, but I've watched closely the last year and have counted exactly one whiting -38 guy getting a fighter and a whole bunch getting preds and buffs. I don't say this to put anyone down but I think you come in at a severe disadvantage that Aforms doesn't seem to make up. There seems to be a big disconnect between the AF Whiting IPs and the Vance 38 IPs. On the other hand over in T-1 land most Whiting people do quite well. I think this is partly because the Navy does more instrument and less formation in t-34s than the AF does in t-6s. In our class 4 of the top 5 graduates were Whiting guys.

To the guy who said man up and study....you obviously don't know what you're talking about, the Whiting 38 guys are busting their ass in aforms, then driving straight to Vance and getting thrown into the mix without any of the experience their t-6 classmates have. Check yourself, as much as you think you are the one guy that is the exception to the rule, you probably aren't. It will be interesting to see how having the t-6 at Whiting changes this dynamic, hopefully it evens the playing field for everyone.

[theat6bisasham]

I was a Whiting guy in 2000....and I have been a tweet & texan IP at Vance..so I have seen this from both sides.

Lets just say that Barksdale is a serious whiting reunion when you stroll through the RTU & the SQ's...

Is it easy to get T-38s at whiting? Probably easier than at the other bases, but I truly believe that I personally would have never gotten a T-38 in the first place if I had started in the USAF program. So did I get a T-38? Yea...but then I was the bottom of the barrel at Vance...just couldn't catch up. I graduated comodores list with a 60 NSS even, but Vance IP's ate my cake(sts) from day one..and even seemed like they wanted me at the bottom. I got a 60 NSS in the navy because it was at my own pace and I could prepare as much as it took to ace every single sim/test or flight. When I got to vance that mentality was replaced by the USAF mentality of HURRY THE ###### UP and cram this shit down your throat...and I don't care if you really know it, I want you to memorize these random tire PSI's and crap.

And that my friends is the real difference between us and them. Hell even as a Texan IP I used to ask ridiculous crap of my students because it was the "norm", but who really gives a crap what the tire load is, or any other number of BS. And why do we think that the "firehose" is efective training? Oh, it's because it happened to us, and we made it through, so it must be good. I still think I was twice the pilot at whiting because I could take my time and do it RIGHT versus just BSing my way through a cram session one night after a 12 hour flightroom day.

And whiting guys make more FAIP's because whiting guys are usually towards the bottom of the class. It's a fact that fighters come first, then FAIPs, then Bombers, then UAVs..etc.

Being a FAIP means you got a hail mary second chance to try and get that fighter again..it's not really that bad a deal.

Edited April 14, 2010 by theat6bisasham

[edcadore]

Has things improved sinced the T-6b hit the line or has it caused more problems with scheduling?

[nunya]

Has things improved sinced the T-6b hit the line or has it caused more problems with scheduling?

More problems. There are fewer available IPs because however-many are over at the FITU (aka PIT) doing their transition training. Then there are simply fewer T-6s. And the maintenance contracts are different between the 34s and 6s, so they can't share any of their stuff. I heard even their GPUs can't be shared. On the upside, I have been seeing lots of new faces on the line, so Sikorsky must be hiring T-6 maintainers or at least transitioning their -34 guys over.

The Whiting airspace was built around the capabilities of the T-34. It's unpressurized, not overpowered, not all that fast, spins down low, rarely flies above 10K' because they don't want to wear a mask, etc. Now they're having to transition to a high MOA structure and it's causing all kinds of problems. Some of the airfields used by the T-34 are even unusable for the T-6 because they're too short (no beta in the T-6). This has led to overcrowding in the practice areas and in the patterns. I think the T-34s had something like 5-6 pattern airfields. The T-6 has 2-3. I took my student to the backup to the backup airfield last week for patterns because the normal areas were full. We completed the event, but it wasn't great training, especially for a pre-solo student. On the other hand, if he'd been flying a double turn that day, we'd have gone to Bay Minette and you wouldn't be hearing me gripe.

If one day Whiting was all -34s and the next day it was all -6s, it'd be much easier. They could just move to a few segmented MOAs and no worries. But trying to accommodate two very different airframes doing the same syllabus in the same airspace is difficult.

Local leadership is aware of the issues (CNATRA leadership is a different story), and they'll all work out, but it's painful in the meantime.

Oh, I forgot. They're sending some AF students to the T-34 squadrons during all of this to keep them moving through the pipeline, so you may or may not even fly the T-6.

Edited February 21, 2011 by nunya

[LoneStar]

BL - so it is true!? Guys' are going over to the 34 squadrons? I knew that was the rumor, but I don't trust the Cone News Network. Question with the fog though that has been spinning through my mind during the morning hours - are we not learning IFR during class, why can instructors and student not alter flight plans so that they can take off during the morning? Is that a syllabus thing?

I'm sure the answer seems simple to me as a stash that doesn't know a damn thing - but just curious if anyone has any info.

Cheers

[B.L]

BL - so it is true!? Guys' are going over to the 34 squadrons? I knew that was the rumor, but I don't trust the Cone News Network.

Yeah, there is a handfull of us out at the other two squadrons. It's most of the dudes that showed up around the end of 2009 to the beginning of 2010 time frame. I've heard some BS that CNATRA wants more Navy studs flying the T-6 and that's why we got bumped to the other Squadrons, but that really doesn't matter, and I don't know how much stock to put into that. When we can fly, flying is great, and the T-34 isn't as Gucci as the T-6B but it's a fun plane. I'm on the one flight a week program right now, wich sucks (all weather cancellations, minus one for smoke from a controlled burn turning the field from VMC to IMC), just luck of the draw with scheduling and weather I guess.

BL

[edcadore]

typically, how far in advance will you know what squadron your in so you know which a/c to study for?

[B.L]

typically, how far in advance will you know what squadron your in so you know which a/c to study for?

I found out the day before I classed up. You'll get a tentative start date when you finish API and check back into TW-5. As with everything in the military it's all up in the air and subject to change. Chances are you'll be a T-6 dude, because VT-6 just accepted their last T-34 guys last week, or coming up next week, so that will only leave VT-2 to carry the load of the T-34 training.

BL

Edited, because it's my 69th post of mostly meaningless dribble! Congrats to me!

Edited February 23, 2011 by blud84

[LoneStar]

When you check in with TW - 5 what is the process after that? Is it a standard number of Navy/Marines/AF studs per class? or is it whatever CNATRA feels like doing on that day of the week?

Any updates with VT-2 and their changeover to T-6s?

[B.L]

When you check in with TW - 5 what is the process after that? Is it a standard number of Navy/Marines/AF studs per class? or is it whatever CNATRA feels like doing on that day of the week?

Any updates with VT-2 and their changeover to T-6s?

When you get to TW-5 you'll wait for a couple of months. You may get a stache job, you may just sit on your ass for two months filling the occasional Phone Duty/DASWO/Duty Driver position. VT-2 is going to be with the T-34 until sometime around next year from what my IPs over here have been telling me. It's been 2 AF dudes a class, and you'll get a report date when you get to TW-5, but that will change about 69 times until you find out about 2 days before you report that you'll be in one of the squadron.

Hope it helps, let me know if you have any more questions.

BL

[db84]

For pilots you report to VT-3, but if you show up after hours whichever base lodging (Pcola or Whiting) you go to will stamp your orders (the navy is big on that). As for swimming at API you will do it, it's not a big deal as long as you are comfortable in the water. If you aren't use that casual time before/after IFS to get used to being in the pool. You don't need to be michael phelps, you just have to be able to swim. If you have trouble the instructors are happy to work with you and get you extra practice. The worse that will happen is you get rolled a week or two so you can get even more one on one time with a swim instructor. That happened to one guy out of my class of 45 who really had trouble swimming in gear, and he did just fine when they put him back in training a week later. Enjoy your casual time!

Edited December 28, 2011 by db84

[dream big]

Here is how a typical timeline works :

(For reference, I graduated/commissioned in May 09' and was PCSing to Vance by September 10', however I was the first guy from my graduating class from the zoo to finish Whiting and finished the T-34 syllabus unusually early due to the fact that they were rushing us through to make room for the new T-6B studs. The last guy in my graduating class to finish Whiting just started T-1s this past month.. )

-Report into VT-3 at NAS Whiting as a brand new AF LT. Get assigned a stash job (I grilled burgers on the flight line in flip flops and shorts.) This may last anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. Expect multiple trips between NAS Whiting and NAS Pensacola to in process.

-When VT-3 tells you, you go and complete IFS and/or ASBC. You may luck out and evade ASBC.

-Come back to VT-3 and resume your stash job until it is time to start API. VT-3 sends two AF guys per week to API. Once you start API you are going to NAS Pensacola 5 days a week 8 hours a day for about 2 months playing Navy games. It is their washout program, none of it is necessarily instructional, nor difficult for that matter, but consider it your payment for weekends on the beach in Florida! We met some cool dudes though and had a good time.

-Upon completion of API, you will come back to NAS whiting but this time report to Training Wing 5 (VT-3's parent command,) and get a stash job there. Don't expect that stash job to be as cool as your one at VT-3. Expect multiple musters (the Navy's version of roll call, in uniform, in the morning.) However, most people aren't there for long, just a few weeks. If you are there for a while, try to get your hands on bold face/ ops limits sheets and maybe even start looking at systems.

-Then, finally, you will start T-6B ground school. Ground school lasts a few weeks; after which you head to VT-3's flight line and start your flights. I waited 2 months between the completion of ground school and my first flight. Others flew the day after ground school ended. Be patient, and stay in the books.

-Track selects, like anywhere in the Air Force vary by time. There was a period where they were handing out T-38s like candy and T-44s were impossible to come by. A few months later, they only gave 7 T-38s over an 8 month period (I'd imagine about 50 Air Force studs had gone through.) It really depends. They were giving out gouge at the academy that UH-1s are very easy to get out of Whiting. NOT TRUE at all.

Have fun there, it is a great experience.

[LoneStar]

Only thing to edit is that t44 s are no longer an option. 2 on the swimming...just get comfortable in the water, after academics are over the school is fun.

Right now the rumor on the street is that you need jet grades to go helos....just food for thought

Also...don't live on base housing at whiting pines...find some buddies and get an apartment on the beach, you're going to be here for a while

[B.L]

Don't sweat the NSS. The more you worry about your NSS the worse you do. You cant control your NSS as it is determined from the 200 bros that finished before you. You could be chuck Yeager and have a bunch of flying gods ahead of you and have earned a 55 NSS. Or you could suck at life and the bros ahead of you sucked worse and end up with a 60 NSS. don't worry about NSS. Fly yor ass off and when you finish your contact/aero/form portion and you may not have done so well don't sweat it because you still have a metric shit ton of instrument sims and I rides left (over half of the program). Grab up all the gouge and firewall 5 the sims (or as close as you can get to it) especially in the early sims when the mif is 2s and 3s.

BL: don't sweat the NSS. Just fly an do the best you can do. You'll love flying regardless of what you fly.

Lud

Edited January 3, 2012 by blud84

[edcadore]

Heading to Whiting mid-April. Are they still allowing studs to live off base?

Plan on getting a place lined up before I get out there, think its safe to do or should I just wait to get down there?

[db84]

Heading to Whiting mid-April. Are they still allowing studs to live off base?

You're good to get a place, there aren't any dorms to live in at Whiting. I'd recommend living in Pensacola, you'll be about 30-40 mins to the base and a lot closer to the bars and the beach.

[dream big]

I would highly recommend living in Pensacola and just dealing with the commute. Governors gate apartments is where a ton of student pilots (and hot, spoiled college girls if that's your thing) live. Or, room up with some friends closer to the beach. Governors gate is about 35 mins to Whiting, 30 to NAS Pensacola and only 15 minutes from downtown. While you're AF counterparts are enjoying the wonders of Columbus, Enid, Del Rio and Wichita falls, often being stuck in the dorms- you get to go to pilot training in an awesome beach town and all the spoils that go with it. Live it up!

[F0x_31]

Heading to Whiting mid-April. Are they still allowing studs to live off base?

Plan on getting a place lined up before I get out there, think its safe to do or should I just wait to get down there?

Ya second dream big's response. I lived in Governors Gate and got used to the commute. I'd find a roommate or two if you can and make a little extra $$ from your BAH. You can find nice houses in and around Milton, but few apartments worth living in are available in Milton.

Whiting is a good base once you learn how to deal with the Navy.

[sasmith]

I am getting ready to PCS to Whiting at the end of September, I haven't been able to find out much info about it. Since there aren't many AF Students per class how does it work when it's time to track select?