AF PA funeral photo

[ClearedHot]

Why in the hell is a picture of Maj Gilbert’s mother in a moment of extreme grief, on the Air Force website? https://www.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?storyID=123035120

What are we trying to prove. Please tell me this is not some ploy to show the Air Force is taking losses too.

These PA tools need a swift kick in the junk.

Let me state for the record, if I ever buy the farm and AF.mil decides to place a picture of my parents grieving on the website, I am asking each and everyone of you to drive to the Pentagon and knock some common sense into someone.

I’ve had far too many friends die trying to protect our way of life to have their sacrifice turned into a media event.

[ 14. December 2006, 09:34: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Rocker]

F*ck AF public affairs and pretty much all mainstream media. That needs to be taken down and that family deserves an apology. CH, is there anyone where you work who would agree with you about this and be in a position to have it corrected?

[Guest SuperStallionIP]

Definitely not appropriate pictures for website or newspaper. The picture of his wife and kids is the hardest to look at. God Bless them.

[M2]

There are probably some reasons to capture images from a funeral, maybe to honor the fallen hero or something along those lines; but pictures of a grieving family are not necessary. They are in enough pain, they do not need photographic evidence to show that. As CH said, someone needs a good *****slap for this.

CH, God forbid that I would have to; but I will gladly honor your request. With pleasure.

Now, can someone find me one of those "cyber warriors" that the USAF touts so loudly to hack into the AF.mil web site and remove that picture?

Cheers! M2

[HerkDerka]

A new low for PA.

HD

[ 13. December 2006, 20:56: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[C17Driver]

So I tried the "contact us" link at the bottom of the AF.mil website, but everytime I hit submit, it times out....

"2" on the new low of PA. Just another reason to never talk to them. ever.

[Pitt4401]

Simple question here.

You guys criticize PA for posting photos of a grieving family at the funeral of a fallen viper pilot...

But I scroll down this forum under "Attention grabbing photos of sacrificed needed" I see the picture of a wife/mother clutching a folded flag with a newborn child.

Or the wife of a fallen marine spending one last night with her husband in a funeral home.

Not looking to stir shit but I am just wondering why there is outrage for one photo and not the other?

[Guest paperpusher]

https://www.af.mil/bios/johnson.asp

Attention drunk aviators--be careful with this.

[bucky60k]

I still think the photos are pretty crass but wouldn't the photographers (especially DoD types) be there only if they had prior permission from the family members to be present?

[Techsan]

Originally posted by bucky60k:

I still think the photos are pretty crass but wouldn't the photographers (especially DoD types) be there only if they had prior permission from the family members to be present?

I'd be willing to bet the family gave permission.

[Stiffler]

Why be careful, cuz she is a Colonel? wow, Im scared. Actually I dont care at all. I dont wanna be a colonel. Quote me on that.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by pencilpusher:

https://www.af.mil/bios/johnson.asp

Attention drunk aviators--be careful with this.

Well, I dam sure don't have anything to worry about with this chick..........

THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pitt4401]

Buck,

Agreed, I'd pull the photo of the mother. The message still comes across w/o that pic.

Couldn't they have shot the "missing-man" fly-by instead?

[Steve Davies]

Gentlemen

As a non-service member, and member of the media, here is my initial reaction to the webpage linked by CH:

You cannot photograph individuals and then publish the photographs without written consent. A release form must be signed if the photographs are released into the public domains – in this case, such consent may be an implicit condition of any burial at Arlington. I don’t know.

It is possible that the family wanted to have their grief captured on film. There are several possible reasons, but I am not going to try and second-guess people I don't know. They would have known that the Air Force intended to use them for official purposes; if they did not, then the Air Force has left itself open to litigation.

I'm not preconditioned to defend SAF/PA, but my experience of USAF PAOs over the last 6-years has, without exception, been that they are good people with a sense of respect for, and duty to protect, the guys at the tip of the spear – they are not low-life paparazzi types who will stop at nothing to get a sensational photograph. I have had brief dealings with the photographer in this case, and he struck me as most definitely one of the former.

Knowing the Air Force’s unbridled fear of litigation, I would like to think that the Gilbert family did approve the photography, and that they did have a good idea as to exactly how intimate and controversial those photographs would be. Assuming that they did, I’d be more inclined to take my hat off to them for showing such enormous courage and strength for allowing a photographer to be present at the funeral of their son/husband/father/brother, than I would be to take cheap shots at SAF/PA for doing something that in the years to come will preserve the memory of Maj. Gilbert and place firmly into the history of the war in Iraq the sacrifice that he and his family made.

Edited to say: I do understand, though, why there is such a strong negative reaction to this particular image. If I went into harm's way, i know that I wouldn't want my Mum to be left without a son, and I know I wouldn't want her to be photographed grieving. But the bottom line is that the presence of a photographer would be her choice, not mine.

[ 14. December 2006, 03:39: Message edited by: Steve Davies ]

[Guest KoolKat]

Steve, well written. CH, while that photo strikes me to the core, I agree totally with Steve's points.

If I think of my mother, in the wake of my demise, should it be at all similar, does breed feelings that match yours...that, there can be no doubt.

I suppose there are ways to prevent such thing, at least in documentation, pre-emptively. For what good that would do.

It hurts, I, for one, certainly do not need to see her pain to understand...I also, though, do not believe that all understand as I...

Is it necessary...I say not. That is only me.

I feel no sense of disrepect for neither the Major, nor his Mother for showing that picture...as much as I pain to look (which I have, for a decent period of time.)

I care much for my Mother, as I know you do your's. It is a horrible thing to try to empathize with...

THAT...is why YOU must stay sharpe and stick it with up the bad guy's ass where it belongs!

CH, God bless your family...I hope you are are doing well. ;)

BENDY

[Hacker]

Personally, seeing his mother's grief only strengthens my resolve.

[Rocker]

I understand your points, Steve. But I think capturing the family in such a profound moment of anguish and grief and posting it on the internet is completely unnecessary. What do you think Maj Gilbert would have wanted? What would any of you want? I know that if it were me, I would NOT have wanted photos of my family in tearful, bitter remorse even taken, let alone put on the Air Force website. General photos at a distance of the setting, the honor guard, or the fly over are OK. But in my mind, close-up images of such a private moment should be left alone.

Now if it was the family's wishes to be published on the internet, fine (but I doubt it). But I think this is disrespectful, albeit inadvertantly.

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

Picture's gone.

[M2]

Originally posted by C-130 Hopeful:

Picture's gone.

Wow, that makes us 'Agents of Change!'

Cheers! M2

[Steve Davies]

Originally posted by Rocker:

I understand your points, Steve. But...

Now if it was the family's wishes to be published on the internet, fine (but I doubt it). But I think this is disrespectful, albeit inadvertantly.

Rocker

Your counter comments are all valid and I would be interested in knowing what PA's take on this is. I know I wouldn't want these pictures taken, and I know I wouldn't want them posted, but I don't know what Maj Gilbert's family wanted, so...

I suppose I was less shocked by these because I had also seen very similar shots of Maj. Watkins and Capt. Das's wives (both AF officers) stricken with grief at their husbands' joint internment at Arlington (Watkins and Das were killed in April '03 when their Strike Eagle went down during OIF). These pictures were also on .af.mil.

Speaking of M2's agents of change, I wonder whether a letter to them asking for an overview of their policy on the matter would shed any light?

Cheers

[Smokin]

I sent them an email last night after reading this, anybody else do the same? Just basically said what others here have written. Maybe that's all it takes.

[LJDRVR]

Hey fellas,

While I didn't see the original photograph, I will comment on the subject of photography at Arlington National Cemetery, from the following background: A tour as a member of the USAF Honor Guard, with a stint as NCOIC of the Colors Element.

I assure you guys, if there was press there, it was most certainly with the families permission, and was shot in such a fashion that they were non-intrusive and respectful.

As far as the AF using the photos, I see no sinister purpose behind trying to show people that we do take care of our own, and that we treat our deceased members and their families with Honor & Dignity. It's a reminder that we are at war, and that many people have made a horrible sacrifice.

I spent four years "humping" Ceremonial Flight through ANC. I watched the seasons change, and was privileged to participate in well over a thousand funerals. Outside of being an Aviator, it was the greatest job I ever had. Arlington is a holy place, and those interred there are very special indeed. Not a damn thing wrong with the rest of us being reminded of that fact occasionally.

As long as the next-of-kin wanted it, those pictures should be required viewing for all who wear the uniform.

[Guest raf eng]

isn't it ironic that the freedom's that this widow's husband died for are now being restricted.

just because it was one of yours

before you judge me i've had my dick in the shit and wish that people would not have double standards (would you post the same comment's if it was an iraqi/afgan mother?). a life is a life and it should not matter who's it is.

i wonder if a nation who activly promotes thier christanity has forgoten some of it's teaching's

im sorry if my post is offencive to any one but it is the way i feel

(if i've offended then contact me i will be glad to share points of view)

[Techsan]

Originally posted by raf eng:

isn't it ironic that the freedom's that this widow's husband died for are now being restricted.

just because it was one of yours

before you judge me i've had my dick in the shit and wish that people would not have double standards (would you post the same comment's if it was an iraqi/afgan mother?). a life is a life and it should not matter who's it is.

i wonder if a nation who activly promotes thier christanity has forgoten some of it's teaching's

im sorry if my post is offencive to any one but it is the way i feel

(if i've offended then contact me i will be glad to share points of view)

:confused:

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

He must still be pissed at the whole revolutionary war thing