AF PA funeral photo

[Scooter14]

I think we're all missing the point a bit here.

IMHBAO, I think the issue was with the grieving mother's picture. It was a closeup of her in extreme grief. I share CH's view that this photo is intrusive and unnecessary.

The rest of the photos are respectful, solemn, honest representations of the internment ceremony for Maj Gilbert, who gave his life for his nation. His family solemnly walking toward the site, the honor guard detail, BGen Jones presenting the flag to Troy's wife, all represent the ceremony in a dignified manner.

I don't think anyone is trying to curtail anyone's freedoms, but the one photo of Troy's mom really served no purpose. You get the full story from the other seven photos, as well as the seven photos from the ceremony honoring Kermit Evans (lest we forget).

Just my 0.02 before we all go off the deep end.

He must still be pissed at the whole revolutionary war thing

Now that's funny right there.

[Guest raf eng]

this is proberbly not the best place to discuss this sort of thing but i have to answer

Originally posted by Xtndr50boom:

He must still be pissed at the whole revolutionary war thing

i'm pissed at any war, but then again it pays my bills.

all i was trying to say is that the genaral attiude to death inflicted on each side is represented differntly both in the media and on these forums.

as i said before, do you feel the same sorrow for the iraqi/afgan mother as you would do the amercian or the british or the candian or the ozzy's mother

life is life at the end of the day. we think we're right they think there right it's all bollock's

[ 15. December 2006, 01:22: Message edited by: raf eng ]

[Hacker]

I'm still wondering about his whole "I've had my dick in the shit" comment.

Uhhh, STS anyone?

[Guest raf eng]

hacker

it is phrase that myself and many people i've met like me use to illustrate the fact that some one has been to some where operational and not just rolled out of training

sts sound's intresting please explain

(again i agree with scooter in the fact that this is not the place to be talking about this as the thread has more important things to comment on)

[M2]

raf eng

It stands for 'So To Speak,' used anytime a statement could be misconstrued for a sexual remark.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather be on PPRuNe? You'd probably prefer the 'yank bashing' (STS) going on there...

Cheers! M2

[Scooter14]

Two countries divided by a common language...

[Guest thefranchise]

Originally posted by Pitt4401:

Simple question here.

You guys criticize PA for posting photos of a grieving family at the funeral of a fallen viper pilot...

But I scroll down this forum under "Attention grabbing photos of sacrificed needed" I see the picture of a wife/mother clutching a folded flag with a newborn child.

Or the wife of a fallen marine spending one last night with her husband in a funeral home.

Not looking to stir shit but I am just wondering why there is outrage for one photo and not the other?

x2

[Steve Davies]

M2

I think you're being harsh - I think he's raising what he believes is a valid point that should be taken at face value - you don't have to agree with it, though. I am the first to interject when the Brits start Yank bashing over on PPRuNe, but I don't think that's what RAF Eng is doing.

It's pretty clear from the range of well-reasoned, civil responses here that there won't be a prefect compromise on this. FWIW, though, I think that PA did the right thing by shooting the images, even if posting the most explicit shot was ill-advised.

[M2]

Steve

My reply was not solely based on his comments here, but in other threads as well. Nothing against the guy, but this just doesn't seem like the right forum for him...

And as I stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with pictures being taken at a military funeral. As Hacker stated, it can be very motivating for those in the fight. However, raf eng's snide comment about "isn't it ironic that the freedom's that this widow's husband died for are now being restricted" (by the way, for a Brit he sure has bad grammar, and using text messaging slang isn't the best move) was not appropriate. Maj Gilbert sacrificed his life in fighting an insurgency and trying to provide security in a foreign country. His actions were not directly tied to any of Constitutional Amendments; it is as ridiculous as saying he died supporting the right to bear arms.

As the picture has been removed, I suspect that permission from the family was not given. What other explanation could there be to its removal, outside of a large protest at its publishing?

Cheers! M2

[Guest thefranchise]

Originally posted by M2:

Maj Gilbert sacrificed his life in fighting an insurgency and trying to provide security in a foreign country. His actions were not directly tied to any of Constitutional Amendments; it is as ridiculous as saying he died supporting the right to bear arms.

huh. maybe we should take out that "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" bs we say as officers. 25000+ Americans died or have been wounded in OIF to preserve our country by way of our Constitution.

[Guest raf eng]

Originally posted by M2:

You'd probably prefer the 'yank bashing' (STS) going on there...

if what i'm saying is being taken as 'yank bashing' then i'm sorry as that is not what it is .i am just voicing my point of view. i've worked with many 'yanks' and for the most part have got on well with them and found them to be very professional.

not every body see's eye to eye

[ 15. December 2006, 14:57: Message edited by: raf eng ]

[Steve Davies]

Originally posted by M2:

Steve

My reply was not solely based on his comments here, but in other threads as well. Nothing against the guy, but this just doesn't seem like the right forum for him...

As the picture has been removed, I suspect that permission from the family was not given. What other explanation could there be to its removal, outside of a large protest at its publishing?

Cheers! M2

M2

I can't comment on whether this is the right forum for him, but I would agree that the 'other' forum can be pretty anti-American. As for RAF Eng's grammar and txt-talk, it doesn't surprise me that there are indeed Brits who can give Bender a run for his money. Sorry, Bendy, couldn't resist.

I would be surprised if the image was removed because the appropriate permissions were not in place from the family - more likely it was removed because, upon reflection, SAF/PA considered that it was simply so powerful/intrusive/whatever adjective you choose to apply. Equally, as you suggest, it could have been because complaints were received.

I'll email them and post whatever response they send back. Seems to me that this is actually a pretty worthwhile discussion.

[M2]

Originally posted by thefranchise:

huh. maybe we should take out that "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" bs we say as officers. 25000+ Americans died or have been wounded in OIF to preserve our country by way of our Constitution.

OK, explain to me how fighting an insurgency in Iraq defends/preserves the Constitution of the United States? I am interested in hearing how you make that connection.

If anything, the connection between the Oath of Office for a commissioned officer in the USAF and the war we are fighting in Iraq fall under the second to the last line, "that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter." Maj Gilbert made the ultimate sacrifice while serving in the Armed Forces of his country. He was doing his duty to the best of his ability. That is noble enough, but don't try to claim that there was any threat to the Constitution of the United States by Iraq.

Not everything they taught you in AFROTC is the truth, partner.

Cheers! M2

[ 15. December 2006, 17:32: Message edited by: M2 ]

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by thefranchise:

x2

[Guest raf eng]

Originally posted by M2:

raf eng's snide comment about "isn't it ironic that the freedom's that this widow's husband died for are now being restricted" (by the way, for a Brit he sure has bad grammar, and using text messaging slang isn't the best move) was not appropriate.

first of all my grammer and spelling aren't great but then again my teeth aren't that good either

what i was trying to point out is that the whole point of the "war on terror" etc is at the end of the day to give people thier freedom.

also i was trying to point out that it is not that often some one pays respect to an iraqi/afgan mother. does life mean less depending what part of the world you come from?.

don't get me wrong i support the war i was just interested in how many people consider both side's of the coin in respect to the loss of life.

(not including mindless act's 9/11 7/7 ied's and terrorism in genaral)

[ 15. December 2006, 23:17: Message edited by: raf eng ]