Fighter upgrades

[Guest Dirt Beater]

Upon completion of FTU and reporting to your first ops assignment, generally how long does it take for the average pilot to complete 2FLUG, then 4FLUG, then IPUG? Do those things sort of "go at your own pace" or is there a stricter timeline to follow? Also, if you're not flying any upgrade sortie, what types of sorties might you find yourself flying? Thanks guys.

[Toro]

generally how long does it take for the average pilot to complete 2FLUG, then 4FLUG, then IPUG?

It'll depend on what you're flying, your previous experience and other concurrent upgrades. Here's a rough wag at F-15E upgrades where I'm at.

MQ (Mission Qualification) - This is your Ops checkout - always the #1 priority of upgrades. There are 10 rides in our syllabus and you need to be through them within 90 days.

2FLUG - You need 300 hours to start (can be waived to 200 if you're a FAIP), which usually corresponds to about 1.5 years into the assignment. There are seven rides which are supposed to be completed in two months.

4 FLUG - The only prerequisite to start this is that you're complete with 2FLUG. Some guys will go straight into it, but most take a break for 6-9 months and gain 2FL experience. Four rides in this program, expected to be done in one month.

IPUG - 500 hours and 4FL required to start. Most pilots don't start this upgrade within three years (the average length of an Ops assignment). There are 12 rides in this program and it's expected to be done in three months.

Do those things sort of "go at your own pace" or is there a stricter timeline to follow?

No, just like UPT, there is a syllabus for every single upgrade we have that dictates what is done and what items we need to demonstrate proficiency (Demo Pro) on. The only upgrade that has a mandatory time limit is MQ (90 days). For the rest, there is a suggested time limit, but it all depends on which upgrades have priority at the time. If you're upgrading you can usually expect to be scheduled for 1-2 upgrade flights a week.

Also, if you're not flying any upgrade sortie, what types of sorties might you find yourself flying?

If you're not upgrading, you may be support for an upgrade (red air, for example). With Strike Eagles, you could (in theory, though we don't do it often) have a 4-ship with eight people dedicated to the upgrade of one person.

If you're not involved in an upgrade, you'll fly CT (Continuation Training), which is basically where you go out and do something to practice with little to no instructor involvement.

[Beaver]

My squadron (F-16CJ) just quit doing 2FLUG. They cut out 3 2-ship rides and combined 2 and 4 flugs. Overall its a 12 ride program.

For us, it is common for a 4v4 dedicated for 1 guy's upgrade.

We fly very little CT. Somebody's always in an upgrade.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Toro and Beaver,

Based on your replies, I'm curious as to how many flight hours you guys have vs. time in service, as well as, what is the avg yearly flight hours logged for a pointy nose dude.

[Beaver]

I have 480 hours in 1.5 years operational. That's a little higher than normal for young guys in my squadron because I was in the desert for 5 months flying 6-9 hour sorties. A guy I graduated the b-course with who went to Kunsan only has 280 hours. He's on the low end of the scale.

I think the average is around 250-300 hours a year.

[Toro]

Originally posted by C-21 Pilot:

Based on your replies, I'm curious as to how many flight hours you guys have vs. time in service, as well as, what is the avg yearly flight hours logged for a pointy nose dude.

I've got 1400+ hours since I graduated UPT in '97, but about 1000 of that is T-38 IP time. I've accumulated the 400+ hours of F-15E time since '01. The average will depend on whether you're deployed or not. I talked with some Seymour Johnson guys who we replaced for OIF last year - they had been there since the war kicked off five months earlier and flew 6-9 hour sorties nearly every day. Like Beaver, dudes with just over a year operational in the Strike Eagle had nearly 500 hours. During non-combat ops, I'd say we average around 200 hours a year.

Originally posted by Beaver:

For us, it is common for a 4v4 dedicated for 1 guy's upgrade.

That gets pretty difficult with a two seater - no way we can spare 16 bodies for one dude. We'll generally combine it with instructor or some other type of upgrades.

[ 10 January 2004, 23:21: Message edited by: Toro ]