fix to fix?

[Guest jtpuro]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is fix to fix flying?

[Combat Platypus]

It's a poor man's RNAV. Say you want to go from present position to the DLF 290/30 fix (that be the Laughlin 290 radial @30 DME). Then you pretend you don't have GPS, any descent navaids, an actual Nav, or your in a Tweet and have no choice. Then you do some silly pencil method/what ever you learn to get an initial heading and repeat till you get "close" (close being 3nm).

Here's a link on how it's done

T1driver.com go to the Resources tab, under Navigation bottom left is Fix to Fix.

It sucks and I havn't done it since UPT.

[ 25. May 2004, 00:18: Message edited by: Shadow05 ]

[JS]

Man. It makes me shiver thinking about fix-to-fix in the Tweet.

A fix is a point in space, so a fix-to-fix is simply going from point to point in space.

[Guest rotorhead]

What they didn't tell you in tweets is that the maneuver is an illegal maneuver IFR unless you are radar monitored....if you're radar monitored, why not key the mic and ask for a vector??????

[HerkDerka]

Nothing like asking for a good old "Initial Steer"

I didn't get truly good at fix to fixes until the end of UPT. Now, I live in the world of SCNS. Thank God for SCNS, because as of now "Tune, identify, and monitor" is about the only step I can remember!

HD

[Guest lovelacm]

HD - I think it goes something like this:

"Hmm.. direct to the yadda yadda at yadda, eh?"

*look at HSI, do finger/pencil/whatever method to best of your memory*

*TLAR*

"Nav, you got that point in SCNS, man?"

"Clear to chase?"

LOL

[Beaver]

You don't call and ask for a vector because that is weak.

"Ummm...Center, I forgot the basic airmanship I learned in Tweets. Can you help me?"

[Gravedigger]

Aint true. CRM baby, use all availible resources. ATC is one hell of a resource. From what I've heard, the tweets aren't equipped with radar, like ATC.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

I actually had to do a fix-to-fix about 2 weeks ago for a missed approach out of Patrick.

Something like the 090/10 DME....I just freakin intercepted and went outbound

Toshiba TV's are Detrimental to You...what is the Acronym again? :D

Beaver stated:

You don't call and ask for a vector because that is weak.

"Ummm...Center, I forgot the basic airmanship I learned in Tweets. Can you help me?"

When is the last time that YOU did a fix-to-fix, Beav. :eek:

[ 25. May 2004, 14:41: Message edited by: C-21 Pilot ]

[HerkDerka]

lovelacm-

That was classic, sounds about right too!

Beaver-

I agree with you. Fix to fix isn't really that hard once you get used to it. However, I don't see anything wrong with asking for a vector if you're SA's gone TU. Of course, it does break the fundamental rules of aviation "Look cool, act cool, and sound cool!" IMHO, asking for a vector is not a bad thing, just use it as a last resort (as long as you aren't /I).

HD

[Guest HueyPilot]

I enjoy telling a copilot to do a fix-to-fix. The look in their eyes is that of sheer terror and bewilderment..."oh sh#t, how do you do that again?".

I believe being able to do basic IFR stuff is pretty important. To illustrate, we were flying to Helena Montana (KHLN), and as we found out it's a non-radar environment(sits in a bowl of mountains). At about 11,000 feet and 25 miles from the field, Center says "radar service terminated" and switches you over to approach, where you request the ILS.

Typically, you expect vectors to final, but instead you hear approach tell you "intercept the 15 DME arc, report established on the localizer, cleared the approach". So you do so, and look down on your approach plate and realize there are step downs on the arc, just like a UPT base's approaches. Lead radials, turn points, being able to set up the localizer on the HSI and fly off the arc from the RMI...report established and they say "switch to tower".

It was actually pretty cool to go there and do that, and realize that you aren't an over-GPS-dependent idiot after all.

Recently I've made it practice to make my copilots fly several approaches without the aid of the flight director. Keeps your skills sharp.

[Guest HueyPilot]

Something else I should note: For those of you guys flying around aircraft that are /G or /I, realize that at any time you could wind up being a /A or /U. It happened to me when I got a "MSG" light, and the FMS said "GPS 1 FAIL" and "GPS 2 FAIL". And we lost our RNAV capability. I warn people not to file to fixes so far apart you can't navigate between them without GPS, and sure enough the guy I was flying with filed that way. Oops..."Center, JOSA 123 is now slant alpha, we need a vector or direct to a nearby navaid".

[Guest jtpuro]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like it brought back bad UPT memories for a few of you...is it really that tough to get the hang of? Any advice on how to prepare?

[Beaver]

I guess I just have a single seat mentality. I can figure out what to do with my airplane without a guy next to me, behind me, or sitting behind a radar scope telling me where to go.

[Chuck17]

REALLY? WOW... Well I graduated from UPT too and I can do all of that as well!

Who'da thunk?!?

Insert sarcasm here.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

jtpuro, relax. It's easy. Worry about it when you get there. You'll be busy with plenty of other stuff long before anyone asks you to do a fix-to-fix. When you're done, you'll be better at them than any of us...for a while. Then, you too will forget the tricks and just point the nose "over there" where you know you need to go...and, depending on what you fly, ask for help.

I'm with you Beaver (sts) but we're out numbered. Take cover....

[Guest THE10MAN]

Here's a blast from the past...someone explain the Rule of 5's for us.

I would but, ummm, er, well, I....

[HerkDerka]

Wow, rule of 5's. I forgot that one a while ago.

jtpuro-

My personal fix to fix technique is the pinch 'n' pencil. First, put one finger on your desired radial and the other on your current course. Pinch your fingers together to get a half way point. Then pinch again either from the desired radial and halfway point if you are going to a further DME or from the halfway to the course if you are going to a smaller DME. The second pinch gives you a good initial heading. After that, perform the pencil maneuver. Draw a line from the radial and dme to the course and move it to the little airplane on the HSI. Now just keep updating and you'll be within 0.5 every time (assuming you update correctly).

With that said, I agree with F16pilotMD. Just wait until you get there to learn this junk!

HD

[Guest deweygcc]

or bang the dust off the whiz wheel and it takes 2 sec. But thats a nav speaking. Its all good with the "single seat" guys, I guess the USAF just wastes 11+ months teaching navs their trade. When the UPT DOODS learn it all in what less than a week?

Then again I dont know ONE fighter pilot that hasnt looked around, swore and went max in the general direction of the field. As in... gee I took off heading W, maybe I should head E.

See I dont mind the single seaters GOOD natured ONE GUY can do it all if hes a light gray or viper driver. Its the head up the A$$ , pilot that thinks he can Literally Do EVERYTHING himself. A monkey could drive a black line predrawn for him. PLus enjoy your training sorties while the inept(sarcasm) crew aircraft get in the mud.

[Guest jtpuro]

You guys are right--I'll just wait until I get there to go over specifics. Thanks for the general info though.

[Guest deweygcc]

The pencil method will get you in the ballpark, not as close as a whiz wheel but close enough.

[Guest HueyPilot]

I can figure out what to do with my airplane without a guy next to me...telling me where to go.

So can I. Just because you fly a crew airplane doesn't mean it's a f*cking democracy. I'm the aircraft commander, and I do the figuring. If the co's got an idea, he or she can bounce it off of me, but in the end, I'm the sole authority on board that aircraft. Period.

It's not my fault that aircraft that carry pax and cargo are designed at the factory to have a 10 foot wide panel and two seats up front. Besides, how comfortable would you feel flying aboard a 737 being flown single-pilot?

If you f*ck up in a pointy-nosed jet, you can punch out and the only pax you lose is the ordanance on the jet. If a pilot screws the pooch in a jet carrying pax, he can't get out and 100 people die. So it only makes sense to have another pilot in there to assist and put a second set of eyes on the situation.

[ 28. May 2004, 19:40: Message edited by: HueyPilot ]

[HerkDerka]

Right on Hueypilot. Let's also not forget that out typical mission lasts a little longer than 1.5

Looking forward to a couple flights with you when you get to the big DY! I've just got to remember to brush up on my fix to fixes first!

HD

[Beaver]

Hey Huey, want your goat back?

[Guest HueyPilot]

Why, is it that obvious?