Baseops.Net versus AMC...

[Baseops.Net]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

First, I would like to say thanks to all ardent supporters of Baseops.Net, and to all the loyal customers of this site. I do appreciate everyone's concerns regarding the "AMC BAN" on Baseops, however, it does seem that several people listed in the email were inundated with phone calls, emails, complaints, and possibly death threats. Since then, the email and message threads have been removed. I do hope that the recipients of those emails, etc., understand that they were the result of our overzealous supporters fearing that Baseops.Net was being banned. This was not meant to be an attack on those individuals.

Baseops.Net is however, trying to come up with a good solution to continue to allow this website to help over 12,000 aviators a day plan their mission. We are in contact with AMC at this time. We will keep you updated with the latest information. At this time, I leave you with the latest AMC message (distributed in some locations as FCIF). As always, fly safe.

----attached AMC message-----

:mad: THIS MESSAGE IS APPROVED FOR RELEASE BY USAF, HQ AMC/DOV.

SUBJECT: USE OF COMMERCIAL MISSION PLANNING WEBSITES

1. THIS IS A HQ AMC/DOV FCIF 02-12-17, IT APPLIES TO ALL AMC AND AMC GAINED CREWS. OTHERS TAKE FOR INFO ONLY. PLACE IN FCIF VOL 1, PART "B" AND RETAIN FOR 60 DAYS.

2. THE USE OF COMMERCIAL MISSION PLANNING WEBSITES (EG. BASEOPS.NET, MONKEYPLAN.COM) FOR OFFICIAL MISSION PLANNING IS PROHIBITED. THESE SITES ARE NOT REGULATED/PROTECTED AND MAY CONTAIN OUTDATED INFORMATION (PERHAPS MADE SLIGHTLY INCORRECT BY PEOPLE WHO INTEND TO DO US HARM). AMC AND AMC GAINED AIRCREWS ARE WARNED THAT USING THESE UNOFFICIAL WEBSITES COULD RESULT IN INACCURATE PLANNING AND IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS. DO NOT (REPEAT) NOT, USE THEM.

[ 26. September 2004, 10:02: Message edited by: Baseops.Net ]

[Guest CommandoSolo]

I'm glad to see that AMC is at least willing to work with Baseops.net to find a solution. Looks like they didn't completely slam the door on us.

Keep up the great work....

CS :eek:

[Guest thebronze]

They're STILL a bunch of KNOBs!

[Guest CommandoSolo]

I agree 100%. The active duty is and always will be a bunch of knobs no matter who is in charge. They really don't see the big picture!

That's why I'm glad I got out and went into the guard!!

CS :eek:

[ 06 January 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: CommandoSolo ]

[Guest thebronze]

Solo,

I couldn't agree more!

BTW, I got one of your sweet-ass coins when I was out there about two years ago. A buddy in my sqdn is friends w/ one of your guys.

Regards...

[Guest CommandoSolo]

Thanks Johann....

We've got new coins....and they are selling fast. So many people like our coins. Let me know if you want one!!

Fly safe!!

CS :eek:

[Guest Air_chompers]

mabey amc should make there own simple to use easy flight planner.

[Guest TheBobGoat]

i thought i saw one from amc on a computer at charleston

if you are on a computer at base you can access - pm if you want the site

[Baseops.Net]

I was approached by AMC - and volunteered to buid AMC their own website (last year). Instead they decided to hire an independed computer firm for probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to create a subpar product (designed by non-pilots).

Anyways, the AMC Portal is of the typical LOW QUALITY that defines AMC... (no hard feelings). You also can't hit it from outside the firewall (unless they fixed that).

Overall bust with lots of taxpayers dollars going to the contractor instead of buying more spare parts for our planes.

SHEESH!

----------HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED------------

Approx 1 year ago, a Gen at 15th AF decided to go for his once-a-month flight. So, naturally, he stepped with his crew (KC10, I think) to baseops to do some flight planning - they went to www.baseops.net and checked NOTAMS, ASRs, etc... then they went and flew their sortie. Never having seen this website before, the Gen. certainly was interested. However, instead of simply asking the IP what was the nature of the website, etc. the Gen. waited until after the sortie to ask his staff about it.

Well, in their naturally pragmatic-staff-way, the staff (Col.) started a huge email chain (I have a copy of the enite message) essentially starting a Spanish Inquisition regarding the baseops.net website. Of course the easiest avenue would be to simply contact ME the webmaster, but instead vitriolic emails were sent out by numerous persons that knew very little about how the internet works and even less about how to perform flight planning on the internet.

In the end, the email chain - vouched for by numerous O-6s and below, blasted anyone that used non-official (non-dot-mil) websites to do ANY sort of flightplanning, and went on (in an insulting way) to actually claim that such websites could be terrorists posting false and detrimental information on the internet for us silly pilots to use. I am not going to go into the details on how this theory is flawed.

The end result was a long chain of YES-MEN emails to the tune of:

"yessir, I can't believe that any USAF Warriors would use that website to flightplan!"

"sir-yes-sir, that website could be hijacked by terrorists giving us the wrong NOTAMS and ASR information"

etc. etc. etc.

After all that, an AMC-wide FCIF resulted (see post above).

Of course, I spent ample time 'negotiating' with 15th AF/STANEVAL to work out this situation. In the end, AMC flushed their toilet and out the pipe came their "AMC Portal" website.

Questions?

[ 25. September 2004, 17:41: Message edited by: Baseops.Net ]

[Guest Aces-High]

I'm not yet a military pilot, and therefore have not used this site for any flight planning. However, is it possible that AMC could be right? Could people hijack the site and post incorrect information since I am guessing that it is not as secure as a government server? I've often wondered if people actually used this site for their planning and if it really is safe?

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Aces,

VERY unlikely. What's funny, though, is that here in USAFE, it is actually given to us as a link for Mission Planning.

A good story for you to use Baseops.net...

While on a routine mission from Andrews to Robert Gray AAF (Kileen, TX), I was notified enroute that our "DV", SMA Preston, would like to "divert" to Kileen Municipal due to the fact that several troops on leave from Iraq were arriving there w/ there families awaiting.

To make a short story shorter, I arranged with Barksdale Ops to get us all the pertinent information on the field. Since the folks there were stick in the muds, I had them click on...you guessed it, Baseops.net, and found all the info I needed and the misison went on w/out delay.

To this day, I wondered if a terrorist plot was in place reading me bad info?

[Baseops.Net]

ACES,

It is NOT possible to hijack this site's flight planning resources. Why? Well, for the official resources: NOTAMS, ASRs, FCG, METAR, TAF, etc... I simply provide a link to the official (government) site - i.e. the DOD NOTAMS website.

All of those sites are at least 128-bit SSL encrypted (but allow access outside of their firewall). Even if you were on base, you navigate to these sites by going outside of your firewall, then back in (as if you were at home).

So, in short, for a large part of the homepage of baseops.net -- all I did was provide a (current) directory of external links to mostly official websites for flight planning purposes. Additionally, for security purposes (having designed several DOD and AF.MIL websites myself), I kept such things as cookies and javascripts, frames etc. to a minimum (monkeyplan uses frames).

What bothered me wasn't that there were individuals out there with questions regarding the site and/or its security -- what I considered insulting was the acrimonious and vindictive way in which the matter was pursued. I think that any of us that have spent any significant time in the military can recognize when authoritative figures are taking it "over the top" in trying to quell a good idea from an innovative volunteer such as myself.

'nuff said.

[Guest Aces-High]

Baseops.net,

Thanks for your reply. I love this site and support you 100%.

Aces

[Guest deweygcc]

Baseops DOOD, I would delve into this further... I wouldnt doubt that this OVERCHARGING Contractor found out and is raising heLLL. I would call FWA and show them your GREAT cheap way to do the same thing the USAF is getting charged a FORTUNE for. Also you may find that there are people IN the USAF that benefit from this CONTRACTOR.

If you are linking DOD sites that the DOD would link itself or use, you are FINE. Unless the person hacks the DOD site, in that case we all would die, because thats were we get our stuff.

You may even be better off getting a partner to take the case higher up the chain. FWA would love to sick the dogs on the contractor. You may get a decent contract yourself.... or your company.

[JS]

Originally posted by Aces-High:

I've often wondered if people actually used this site for their planning and if it really is safe?

To answer this question - military pilots (at least UPT studs) definitely use this website to plan. Some of our IP's here at UPT have specifically recommended it to us for nav planning even though there is no official guidance from up above sanctioning the use of it.

As far as your safe question - see baseops.nets' response above.