Reserve vs. Guard

[Guest Ftrooper91]

try some of the websites below or email NGB/A3X

For Reserve & IMA:

See AFRC AEF Cell web page at: https://wwwmil.a2a3.afrc.af.mil/a3m/ for instructions, procedures, and Points of Contact for Reserve/IMA Volunteers.

For Air National Guard:

Extended deployments are open to all ANG members if qualified and released from their Wing and State. The formal process to volunteer is being finalized by NGB/A1 and NGB/A3 staffs and will be posted and available after 15 Oct 06. The process/additional information will be posted on the NGB/A3X website at: https://xox.ang.af.mil/ by logging into the Operational Plans and Execution Division Website or the NGB/A1PR - Personnel Readiness and Mobilization website/CoP at https://afkm.wpafb.af.mil/CoPCreation/Entry...=OO&FormId=1735 ; (for users who access Knowledge Now through the AF Portal, please follow the link at https://wwwd.my.af.mil/afknprod/CoPCreation...OO&FormId=1735). General questions concerning the process of extended deployments for ANG members may be addressed to ANG.A3XA.ECS@ang.af.mil or hqngba1pr@ngb.ang.af.mil

[amcflyboy]

Do you have to have prior service in order to enter the USAF Reserve flight training?

If you do get selected, do you go to AMS in Tennessee, or OTS?

Lastly, is there any website that gives information on entry into the USAFR?

The ANG goes to Knoxville for commissioning, the AFRC goes to OTS at Maxwell. Why they do this, I haven't a clue. That's just the way it is.

No, you don't have to be prior to get in either one, but it does help if you are.

Edited April 30, 2007 by amcflyboy

[Guest Ftrooper91]

Actually about 1/3 of AFRC new guys go to the AMS, the rest go to OTS. It just depends on slot availability. The website for AFRC is www.afrc.af.mil. Click join on the top right banner.

[amcflyboy]

Actually about 1/3 of AFRC new guys go to the AMS, the rest go to OTS. It just depends on slot availability. The website for AFRC is www.afrc.af.mil. Click join on the top right banner.

you're right, I stand corrected. I now remember a few AFRC guys in my AMS class, though they weren't going to UPT, rather they were either medical dudes, or were going to be shoe clerks. I really don't know of any AFRC UPT guys going to AMS, unless that's changed.

[Guest GU96932]

you're right, I stand corrected. I now remember a few AFRC guys in my AMS class, though they weren't going to UPT, rather they were either medical dudes, or were going to be shoe clerks. I really don't know of any AFRC UPT guys going to AMS, unless that's changed.

I'm a USAFR Officer who went through AMS. From what i know, most USAFR officer accessions go through AMS. I asked some of my AD friends who went through OTS (BOT) and they said it was all AD who went through their training.

[Buddy Spike]

I'm a USAFR Officer who went through AMS. From what i know, most USAFR officer accessions go through AMS. I asked some of my AD friends who went through OTS (BOT) and they said it was all AD who went through their training.

As of 05/06, the reserves were sending rated types (those in the UPT/UNT pipeline) to OTS and the nonrated to AMS.

[Guest evil load]

1. Better education benefits for the enlisted in the ANG. Each state has different programs (tuition reimbursement) for members enrolled at local college(s). Some states even repay certain types of student loans (that was 15 years ago). Both get the GI Bill (the reserve/guard one, not the active duty one). AFRC has started to catch up with a "Kicker" program, but I believe its only for selective AFSC's (not 100% sure on this).

2. ANG officer candidates go to AMS, most AFRC officer candidates go to OTS (some flyer types do get to go to AMS).

3. ANG, AFRC and AD enlisted all go to Lackland for Basic Training.

4. ANG can be mobilized by the govenor and the President. AFRC can be mobilized by the President.

5. Joining the ANG/AFRC is the same as AD. Just talk to the recruiter at the ANG/AFRC unit that you are interested in joining. Better yet, if you know anyone in that unit, talk to them first.

6. ANG rolling activations. AFRC one or two year activations (C130 side).

7. ANG/AFRC pay is the same.

[Guest jaflapilot]

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone tell me what are the typical lengths of deployments for reserve/guard pilot and navs? I have heard that the AF limits pilot deployment to 3-4 months. Is this true? Also I am looking at the guard vs. the reserves. Does the deployment cycle differ greatly between the two?

Thanks,

Jeff

[pawnman]

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone tell me what are the typical lengths of deployments for reserve/guard pilot and navs? I have heard that the AF limits pilot deployment to 3-4 months. Is this true? Also I am looking at the guard vs. the reserves. Does the deployment cycle differ greatly between the two?

Thanks,

Jeff

It's dependent on the airframe. Lots of airlift guys are doing 120 on, 120 off. I'll let someone else give you more insight into guard and reserve...but again, it'll depend on the plane, not just "guard" or "reserve".

[Guest AirGuardian]

Very true the airframe is the main key, as well as Guard or Reserves having their own ways of conducting business/deployments at times, but sometimes if you're lucky the unit has its own way of conducting business that finalizes the matter.

Mission Requirements vary as well so timelines are different.

I.E. - An active component may deploy for 4 months; whereas, 2 Guard or Reserve units may share the deployment by each doing 2 months instead. Everything varies with us. Airframe, Guard, Reserve, unit cleverness/AMC pull... luck...

[Toto]

From experience, do not go through a recruiter. Go directly to the squadron. The pilots will give you the most current info on how to apply.

Quick question, if I have already talked to the units I am interested in and they are interested in working with me but the recruiter for my region (AFRC) is not really answering my emails and phone calls should I switch and work with the recruiter the unit told me to contact even if they are out of the region? I don't know if my regional recruiter is hardcore busy or if its due to the holidays but I haven't heard from him yet.

Instead, worry more about visiting the unit a couple of times. That way, when your packet comes across their desk they can say "oh yeah, he's not a complete tool, let's invite him out."

I sent a lot of packets out and the first 3 interviews I got were all from units I had visited previously during drill weekends and had personally dropped my packet off. It was brought to my attention several times that the units looked higher upon those who made the effort to come out prior to interviews.

It'll also give you a head start during the interivew -- they'll have already seen/talked to you so the 20 or so minutes of the interview can be better spent.

Is it normal for units, especially in the ANG, to not want people to visit prior to the interviews?

[Guest thawkpa38]

Is it normal for units, especially in the ANG, to not want people to visit prior to the interviews?

I had an experience with one unit when I was applying where someone told me that visits were not allowed, but that person was not in Operations. I continued to try and get a hold of someone in Ops. When I finally did, I found that they were very open to applicants visiting.

For units where contact info and phone numbers were not available, I did some internet searching for old UPT board postings from previous years. They would usually list a POC, and that person was almost always happy to help direct you to the person currently handling new applicants. From my experience, the hardest part as a civilian was getting a hold of the right people.

[TacAirCoug]

Is it normal for units, especially in the ANG, to not want people to visit prior to the interviews?

I'd say it's just the opposite, for Ops at least. Before my Guard unit hired me, I visited during a couple drill weekends. Most of the other recent hires I've seen have done the same. Informal visits serve a couple of purposes. First, you can get a chance to check out the unit and see if you like it. Second, the unit can check you out and see if they like you (outside of a formal interview environment). I think it's far more common for a unit to want you to visit rather than discourage it.

[Guest r6pilot]

My sponsoring unit didn't allow visits as did some others I applied to. Another unit I visited once gave me an interview. I met up with one of the pilots there. Yet another unit I visited twice didn't give me an interview. I visited the "recruiter" at that unit. Useless as you get NO interaction with the pilots/board/etc. (i.e. If they have some MSGT or similar recruiter in charge of pilot apps, try to call the ops squadron and get a pilot to visit with you and show you around.)

Make sure if you go, you get some face time with some folks who might have some say.

[Toto]

I had an experience with one unit when I was applying where someone told me that visits were not allowed, but that person was not in Operations. I continued to try and get a hold of someone in Ops. When I finally did, I found that they were very open to applicants visiting.

Thanks to a memeber on these boards I was able to get ahold of the chief nav in the unit and I chatted briefly with him and that is why I am having trouble. I am fairly certain he said he wouldn't mind having me visit to talk with some of the navs but he told me that everything has to go through the recruiter and she told me that the squadron does not let people visit prior to the interview. So I do not know who's word to take.

I'd say it's just the opposite, for Ops at least. Before my Guard unit hired me, I visited during a couple drill weekends. Most of the other recent hires I've seen have done the same. Informal visits serve a couple of purposes. First, you can get a chance to check out the unit and see if you like it. Second, the unit can check you out and see if they like you (outside of a formal interview environment). I think it's far more common for a unit to want you to visit rather than discourage it.

I wasn't sure if the ANG was a differnet kind of animal. Maybe it is due to me applying for UNT instead of UPT? I was hoping that I could visit after taking the AFOQT since I would be at the base anyways.

My sponsoring unit didn't allow visits as did some others I applied to. Another unit I visited once gave me an interview. I met up with one of the pilots there. Yet another unit I visited twice didn't give me an interview. I visited the "recruiter" at that unit. Useless as you get NO interaction with the pilots/board/etc. (i.e. If they have some MSGT or similar recruiter in charge of pilot apps, try to call the ops squadron and get a pilot to visit with you and show you around.)

Make sure if you go, you get some face time with some folks who might have some say.

Yeah, I have a MSGT working with me right now (everything is being done via email, her preference) and as I said a little earlier, she has said no but the chief nav and a member of this board in the unit have indicated the opposite. I really don't want to make it look like I am trying to go around the recruiter because I am working with/through her and she is really a good person who seems to know her stuff. If they do not do visits, that is fine. I just figured that my chances are fairly slim being a NPS civie as it it and it wouldn't hurt to put a personality and voice with the name on the application.

[hindsight2020]

Quick question -- what kind of jobs are compatible with being a traditional reservist pilot? I realize guys are usually either full-timers, bums, or fly for the airlines. But there has to be people who do the guard/reserve thing and manage to have a non-flying career on the side. I'm just curious about if they're able to make it work, or even how they make it work.

Honestly, it's not as common as the commercials make it out to be and rank and age makes a WORLD of difference. I turned down a college teaching job last year because the bumming schedule and pay was much better than having to tap dance with a civilian employer just to break over min running the unit as a co-pilot, putting me at upgrading in 6-9 years...oh and I make more money showing up to one employer than if I had to go to two jobs, never mind the hassle of commuting. Granted, I'm also doing it to pay my dues to an eventual full-time job at the unit (before my wife gets sick of waiting and leaves my underemployed @ss lol) otherwise I'm f00ked time-value-of-money-wise. In general, aside the civilian airline schedule (which can be painful in itself) it just doesn't add up. I tell ya, when you consider the kind of participation you need to have at the unit to be worthwhile particularly when starting out, the chunk on non-taxable income you make in the military versus the comparative civilian income you'd have to make to equate take home pay, and the restrictive weekday schedule most civilian employers demand outside an airline schedule, it really does become a zero-sum game, at least it has been for me.

That said, to answer your question, at least in my unit they are few and far in between, but they are college professor, a doctor, a nurse (I think), one doesn't even have a job (spouse picks up the tab), engineer/software development folks and plethora of real estate agents. How they do it? In my CGO POV they don't, they're majority field graders and their participation is not much more than the IDTs and AT they're alloted. It's easy money (that's about to change unfortunately) for them and their underparticipation be it voluntary or economically driven, does not affect their careers as it does mine [the young guy with upgrades to look forward to]. So there ya go. Is it possible? Yes. But in my opinion there's no middle ground, you end up min running one for the sake of the other, and when you throw in commuting into the mix, most get burned out long term and act accordingly. This is why some of the older crowd are of the opinion that young guys shouldn't be allowed into the mix, that the Reserves should be something people pulling chocks from AD after a substantial commitment have the sole access to. Clearly this would change the face of the Reserves, and not for the better, and won't ever become a reality, but it does highlight the difficulties of attempting to develop civilian and military careers as a young guy without the benefit of 10 years of govt cheddar behind you.

[Guest ATC]

Quick question -- what kind of jobs are compatible with being a traditional reservist pilot? I realize guys are usually either full-timers, bums, or fly for the airlines. But there has to be people who do the guard/reserve thing and manage to have a non-flying career on the side. I'm just curious about if they're able to make it work, or even how they make it work.

I am currently employed by the FAA (full time) as an air traffic controller. I am currently in the ANG as a controller, waiting to leave for AMS for a pilot slot in the ANG. The ATC thing is similar to the pilot commitment in the ANG - in addition to UTAs and AT, I maintain currency in the ANG tower. It is definitely workable. As a federal civilian employee, I get 120 hours per fiscal year of paid military leave. That helps a lot. Some civilian jobs are quite incompatible with the ANG, others are much more workable.

[Guest evil load]

Very true the airframe is the main key, as well as Guard or Reserves having their own ways of conducting business/deployments at times, but sometimes if you're lucky the unit has its own way of conducting business that finalizes the matter.

Mission Requirements vary as well so timelines are different.

I.E. - An active component may deploy for 4 months; whereas, 2 Guard or Reserve units may share the deployment by each doing 2 months instead. Everything varies with us. Airframe, Guard, Reserve, unit cleverness/AMC pull... luck...

The Reserves are now like AD for some crazy reason. No splitting up an AEF deployments (like 2 60 day packages) or sharing a deployment between two units.

[hindsight2020]

The Reserves are now like AD for some crazy reason. No splitting up an AEF deployments (like 2 60 day packages) or sharing a deployment between two units.

Um, there is a reason the Reserves feel like AD nowadays, it's called TFI and an AFRC leadership who doesn't have the spine to tell the AD to suck it 'cause they got their own stars to acquire and selling out a bunch of volunteers is politically easier than growing a sack. The AD bean counters are a bunch of cheapos who think they can tap the Reserves like it's freggin AD and they honestly got another thing coming. I can always go work at Lowe's (proverbially) in spite of myself, and mother blue still has the manning disaster and the pissed off crowd with the high turnover/low proficiency.

As far as AEF, at my unit we were able to sell them on 3 stints of 40 last year and it was all voluntary so nobody got punked on our side of the house. Of course that's because most people at my unit are field graders who don't particularly care about "flagpole deployments" and AD won't mobilize us because they know it would throw their books out the window with added entitlements and pay, they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. In that regard we got them by their cheap nads. They need the added manning bad, but they won't pay us and do not want to activate us 'cause they know the asspain it would bring upon themselves. God, I love my union job almost as much as I love this country ya cheap bastards

Long term however, you are correct, the RC is not the good deal it once was. It is still better than AD in QOL when you normalize for the whole Service, but the flying club days are LOOOOONNNG GONE. It is incumbent on the Guard and Reserve units to proactively retain and foster leadership on individuals who are friendly and vested on the Guard/Reserve way of life, this is crucial to our survival as the premier retainer of experience and better-than-AD-it's-not-even-funny product delivery. Way too many expat AD douchenozzles not vested in the Reserve life are encroaching the ranks and folding the line like cheap suits every time the AD (like clockwork) comes running from down the street with their weekly rendition of "the redcoats are here, we need you to sacrifice for the cause!!".

There are very specific reasons the Guard and Reserve were once great deals, and we need to make sure as an organization that these TFI "initiatives", while futile to dismiss, are incorporated with strong "union" protections. I'm not talking about good faith verbal understandings, as mother blue is a cheap whore not to be trusted, but with no-sh$t anal retentive MOU/MOAs where the rubber meets the road. One cannot expect AD to figure out and be understanding of the idiosyncracies of Guard/Reserve life, we as a collective have to hold blue's hand and color that b%tch with a big fat purple crayola. That requires brass to back it up, so our leadership has to be equally forthright about the Guard/Reserve realities. Anything less than that and yes, Guard/Reserve will cease to exist as a worthy alternative to the "do less with nothing, every shoe is a warrior, mission support is the mission, bombs on target be damned" AD has desecrated itself to become these days.

[Guest prazors]

Hello everyone,

I have an interest in flying; however, I would consider a non-rated position in the AF reserves too . Does anyone know if an applicant can choose which reserve base they will attend after OTS for non-rated jobs? Thanks

-James

[Guest Caddis]

As far as AEF, at my unit we were able to sell them on 3 stints of 40 last year and it was all voluntary so nobody got punked on our side of the house. Of course that's because most people at my unit are field graders who don't particularly care about "flagpole deployments" and AD won't mobilize us because they know it would throw their books out the window with added entitlements and pay, they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. In that regard we got them by their cheap nads. They need the added manning bad, but they won't pay us and do not want to activate us 'cause they know the asspain it would bring upon themselves. God, I love my union job almost as much as I love this country ya cheap bastards

Hindsight,

If you are a C-130 unit in AFRC, i.e 22nd AF, your next deployment to the desert will be a 120 with no swap outs at the midpoint. This was briefed this weekend at a conference some of our guys were at. As to the thought that the AD won't Mob you...well you are wrong. The mob authority never left and units are being told to activate to fill the manning document. Welome to the new reserves.

[Guest sog]

Sorry for the thread revival, but I had a question that seemed appropriate here...

According to the a couple of different websites (WantsCheck and the AFR official website), the 100th Flight Training Squadron is in the Air Force Reserve and employs pilots. Just out of curiosity, does this mean that the Air Force Reserve has part-time pilots who do flight instruction? Or am I missing something obvious here...? Thanks!

Edited March 23, 2010 by sog

[BigE]

Sorry for the thread revival, but I had a question that seemed appropriate here...

According to the a couple of different websites (WantsCheck and the AFR official website), the 100th Flight Training Squadron is in the Air Force Reserve and employs pilots. Just out of curiosity, does this mean that the Air Force Reserve has part-time pilots who do flight instruction? Or am I missing something obvious here...? Thanks!

340 FTG

Yes - all the flying bases have Reserve Associate Units with IPs flying with all the UPT squadrons... also PIT and IFF.

[arl120384]

Sorry, but I'm reenergizing this thread. I have read this whole thread, and although its a bit dated, there's a bunch of good info! My few questions are....

Based on some of the old info on this thread, how has things changed, with respect to a reserve pilot feeling like their AD counterpart? Has the workload/schedules gotten worse, making the reserves and a full time job feel like QOL is slipping away? I'm a current airline guy, looking at both guard and reserve. I have realized that I just m issued the application deadline by a few months, and being 28 in December, if I want it this bad, I need to get a slot anywhere that takes me, including the reserves.

Lastly, I'm from Mass, and there are a few ANG bases in my state. One is Westover that flies the C-5. I also noticed that on the AFR site, it listed westover as a reserve base. Do ANG and Reserve pilots typically mix as crews, or are they still separate?

Thanks again!

[Guest]

Westover is Reserve.

Westover is Reserve and they fly C-5s. Barnes is at Westfield and they fly F-15s. And no, they don't fly together.