Reserve vs. Guard

[UPT-hopeful]

My thoughts on all that stuff (keep in mind I know nothing, have never sat on a board, etc. I have met 4 different boards, though)

Most of the folks applying look the same on paper. That's great.

Instead, worry more about visiting the unit a couple of times. That way, when your packet comes across their desk they can say "oh yeah, he's not a complete tool, let's invite him out."

I sent a lot of packets out and the first 3 interviews I got were all from units I had visited previously during drill weekends and had personally dropped my packet off. It was brought to my attention several times that the units looked higher upon those who made the effort to come out prior to interviews.

It'll also give you a head start during the interivew -- they'll have already seen/talked to you so the 20 or so minutes of the interview can be better spent.

Edit: I realize I didn't answer any of your questions, but that's my point. As long as you're "passable" (the NGB isn't going to question their decision), then the difference between a 92 and a 99 PCSM isn't a big deal, in my experience.

[ 09. October 2005, 14:22: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[duece123]

Well not to disagree with UPT-hopeful, but it can be done with 0 face time. The guard unit I was selected for I had never been to visit. I am sure visiting will not hurt you by any means, but it is not always a necessity. Make sure when you do interview/visit to be confident when talking to the people you meet. Be respectful, but remember, they were in your shoes at one point. Not that I am some old wise man, Just my .02 on the matter.

In answer to your?'s

82 P

72 N

99 PCSM

131.0 HRS

I am only 22 so age was not a factor for me

[UPT-hopeful]

Although I tried, I was unable to visit the unit I was selected for. However, I would've liked to have visited prior to the interview.

Based on the 3 boards that I met previously, I was more relaxed and felt that it helped my interview that the board already knew my name and had seen me before. Of course having face time does not guarantee an interview or selection, but it can help.

Interesting stat: I was selected to interview 100% of the time when I visited the unit (all FWs). On the other hand, units that I didn't visit, I was only selected to interview 50% of the time (this is slightly skewed, there were only two units I did not visit that I applied to before being selected for primary).

[ 09. October 2005, 15:12: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[Guest BLEEDS ON]

I'll second UPT's comments. I was the alternate with a fighter unit a couple years ago. After getting the alternate I did not go back and visit. The result: I DID NOT get invited back to interview. Moral of the story, visit the unit. If you can't visit in person, call them up. Write a letter. Do something.

To answer your questions:

1)High scores

2)Civilian

3)All ratings with flight hours in the 4 digit range

4)Who knows. Where I live/place of birth played a huge part with a number of units.

5)It varies. If they want you that bad, they won't wait around to lose you to another unit. Give them a reason to select you right then and there.

[hindsight2020]

To further support UPT-hopeful's point (although I think 92-99 PCSM is competitive but hardly anything I would use as a benchmark, plenty of competitive packages with PSCM<92, but I understand the spirit and intent of your commment so we're on the same page), the interviews are like a big 'REFRESH' button, where the PCSM/GPA/LOR's/whatever is no longer relevant, individually at least.

In the absence of 99's in everything, face time with the unit will get you closer to the interview.

I'm afraid the answer to your question will have a standard deviation so wide it will be of no use to you. There are those who score great on the AFOQT, those who do not, those whose PCSM are low, some who are not. Those who have CFI's, those who are just PPL, those who already fly 121. Those who are scrapping 28.5y/o, those who are 21-22. Guess what? Profiles like these have all gotten a slot, and have all gotten rejected.

The usual AFOQT in the 90's, PCSM above 85, GPA 3.5 preferably tech degree, basketball captain, volunteer service that shadows Mother Theresa, and outstanding citizen of the year Boy Scout award is a good benchmark for the OTS board. It IS useful in establishing that goal for yourself to also be competitive in the Guard, but once you get to that interview be prepared to get passed on for people with LESS and MORE paper quals as you. Moral of the story, work on you as a person and face time face time face time..oh and don't give up lol.

MDINC

[UPT-hopeful]

If you're having problems getting interviews (or simply just worried about it), make sure your packet doesn't suck. Be sure to include everything that is asked and in the form they want it.

For instance, one unit I applied to wanted a very simple packet: Plain 8.5 x 11 white paper. A single staple in the upper left hand corner. Fill out these forms and attach. That's it. No more, no less. I can imagine the guys who didn't follow these instructions had their packets tossed in the "no" pile.

I've talked with some of the people who separate packets and they have said they can't believe the amount of trash that gets sent in. One unit that requested applicants to send in photos had a guy send in a picture of himself in a pink tutu. I'll let you figure out if he got asked to interview.

Use the top shelf crayons when filling out the paperwork.

While I was never one to go over the top with my packets and have them professionally bound and all that crap, I let them represent my work ethic and spent time making sure I didn't misspell things or say on my cover letter "I really want to fly Eagles with you guys" when the unit flew Vipers.

I agree with MDINC - posting scores is mostly worthless. You'll find people have been selected with all kinds of qualifications (or lack there of). Also, I don't know if it was only lip service, but every board I met said before the interviews "you are all on the same page now. you've been reset to 0 and we're going from there" (in regards to scores, flying hours, etc).

[ 09. October 2005, 15:25: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[ChkHandleDn]

Thanks for the advice all. As far as visiting is concerned, it's a little hard finding the time to visit the units with me being on active duty. I'm hoping to accrue enough leave so I can do that though. But for now, I'll have to settle with my application package speaking for me.

[UPT-hopeful]

For clarification:

By no means is visiting the only way to get an interview (and the converse is true as well, visiting does not mean you'll get an interview).

Being enlisted is going to help you out. Just make your packet as good as you can and keep at it.

[ 09. October 2005, 19:31: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[Guest WILLIO]

I second UPT-hopeful. I never visited the unit that I was selected by but I was in another fighter unit, and they called around and found out the "scoop" on me (So go with visiting). When you arrive at a unit for the interview, you are at ground zero. I felt as though I had a huge disadvantage because all the other guys knew everyone and I knew NOBODY. But if you go in there and are completely honest with them and have a cool head, you will stand out. I asked advice from the guy who was selected by the same unit a year before and he told me "It's all about your attitude". I was like "Thanks?"... but after it was over and I saw how everyone else acted after their interviews, I knew exactly what he was talking about. Most guys seemed nervous and somewhat anal about how they did... I did not feel that way. I felt that I did as best as I could have and gave it my best shot.

Note: In my interview, they didnt even have my package in front of them. Just my resume?!

[ 09. October 2005, 21:48: Message edited by: WILZ ]

[Champ Kind]

I apologize ahead of time.... The only things I know about the Guard and Reserves are things that I have picked up in talking to some of my UPT buddies...

I'm trying to get some answers for a friend of mine that's interested in becoming a MX officer. How does one go about finding out if a unit has any openings? Will they "hire" people off the street and send them to OTS/AMS to fill a MX officer position, as they would for a pilot selectee?

Is there a website with some good answers, or a list of openings?

Thanks a lot!

[Guest Robes]

Some units will hire people off the street for non flying jobs. For the ANG send your friend Here. Once there select 'careers' then 'search category' finaly look under 'officer positions'.

Hope this helps your friend

Robes

[Login Name]

all the dudes that were with me at ammoc that were guard/reserve were all prior with their units. a spot opened up and they were able to fill the vacancy.

[Buddy Spike]

For the Reserves, find your local Officer Accessions Recruiter. He/she will be able to find your buddy openings with units in your area (they usually cover a region).

[Champ Kind]

How do you track down an Officer Accessions Recruiter? My friend has spoken to an enlisted recruiter and asked for such a person and the guy didn't know...

[Buddy Spike]

Originally posted by PhlashNU04:

How do you track down an Officer Accessions Recruiter? My friend has spoken to an enlisted recruiter and asked for such a person and the guy didn't know...

Depends on the region. My unit set me up with mine, but the AFRC website may have something.

[Guest Robes]

Here is an interesting question which was posed to me the other day and I have been mauling over...

A person who has been selected to attend UPT by a unit (package still not at NGB) wants to start working on his civilian career in Law Enforcement. The department this person wants to be with will be hiring in the spring, but the ANG unit people are wanting UPT attendance to be Q1 of FY07.

Does this person let the agency know of the UPT selection?

Caveat, The references used will say something about UPT. Does this change the answer? Is it right that the references mention UPT?

Robes

[Guest comanche]

When I was applying for my job they asked "where do you see yourself in 5 years" I told them that I'd be with there company and hopefully flying in the reserves or guard. He asked a few basic questions and moved on.

If the references will say something about UPT, I would think the person would be better off letting them know so he/she can answer any questions they may have. Nothing worse then getting a surprise when you call a reference.

[ 20. November 2005, 04:02: Message edited by: comanche ]

[Guest TheBurt]

Robes,

I faced this same problem in the early 90's. I had applied and been accepted to the NC Highway Patrol, and around the same time was awarded a Nav slot with the ANG. I took the Nav slot and told the Highway Patrol about it, they said just reapply when I got back from UNT. I did exactly that. My advice to you, be upfront with the agency that you are applying with, I know a lot of guys that have done the same thing.

Yes, I could've accepted the Basic School date with the Patrol and then took military leave, but that is sort of chickensh#t and it would have probably done a lot of damage to my law-enforcement career when I would have returned. I did in fact take a leave of absence for UPT, but that was several years of being on the road as a Trooper. Hope this helps.

The Burt

[Guest thebronze]

Robes,

Be up-front/honest with them. If they think you're being dishonest or hiding something, they'll bounce you in a heartbeat.

There's 50 other guys behind you, waiting for your position. In most cases, you need them more than they need you.

Be honest w/ them and let the chips fall where they may.

Also, you don't want to be on probation and take mil leave. Trust me on this. There are many different ways to get rid of someone on probation and (at least in Cali) they don't need to give any reason for canning you.

Most department's talk a good game, "We support the military..." blah, blah, blah... but when it comes down to it, it's a royal pain in their ass and they don't like accomodating the military people. Public safety/Gov't agencies are some of the worst offenders for USERRA violations.

There are enough reasons to get rid of you, don't give them any more.

[Guest Robes]

Thanks, I was planning on telling them up front, but the fam thought I should not say anything. At least in NE they are not able to get rid of you without enough documentation when on Probation. I know the department I used to be with allowed us to go on military leave while in the FTO phase!

My thought was if I am this up front with the department it will be a positive thing. The department has about 100 people and 3 of them are in the reserves/guard (all officers).

Thanks for the advise!

[Guest AV8NSP]

I have a bit of a different take on this. When I left active duty to take a UPT slot with an ANG unit, I had about 8 months to wait. I started with my department, went through the academy, etc., and once I got my official date for UPT, I told my dept about it. I left for UPT prior to FTO, took a leave of absence, came back about 20 months later, and I am back on the road with all my seniority, and all my dept's support. My dept follows USERRA pretty well, and they were extremely accommodating during my return to duty. Military service is a legally protected thing, so I would say don't worry too much about it.

[Guest AV8NSP]

Oh, and this is not a legit reason for terminating someone's probation....they'd find themselves in court in a heartbeat...

[Guest TheBurt]

AV8NSP your exactly right and it's good to know the system worked correctly, however, some departments don't exactly want to play by the rules. When I went to UPT I had been with the SHP for 4 years as a Trooper, they tried to deny my request for leave of absence for military duty, I had to use USERRA and it worked. I too suffered no direct repercussions upon my return to the Highway Patrol upon completion of UPT, however, individual supervisors did give me a lot of sh*t now and then, even though I flew with the guard on my days off. It may have been a jealousy issue or the fact that they couldn't control my entire life like some of my buddies. At the time and even now, a NCSHP Trooper has very limited off-duty employment options, they put very stringent restrictions on off-duty employment and I think it rubbed some supervisors wrong knowing that I could get off work at the patrol and go fly an AFTP without having to ask their permission. So again, at some departments it is a sensitive issue, try and do, as much as, you can to not be a pain in the arse to your Sgt when it comes to scheduling around your guard trips.

[Guest thebronze]

Oh, and this is not a legit reason for terminating someone's probation....they'd find themselves in court in a heartbeat...

Not sure what the law is like where you're at, but here in Kali, when you're on probation, they can get rid of you for any/no reason and they aren't required to tell you why.

If your dept. is smart (which mine wasn't) they won't give you any indication that it's because of the reserves.

Then you're out on the street w/ no recourse.

[Guest sleepy]

Dredging this back up...

Following what Johann said, what say you guys about this:

I've been in my current position for over two years (well past probation), and the company knows about my Guard aspirations. Problem is, they will not want to replace me for six weeks when I go to AMS, which will supposedly be sometime soon. Additionally, I am employed in Georgia, which is an "at will employment" state. I can legally be terminated at any time for any reason.

Should I wait until I enlist before I mention the leave to them?

Also, my income is about 5/8 salary and 3/8 commission. If I return there between AMS and UPT, do they have to give me the opportunity to go back to a salary/commission position, or can they place me into an hourly wage position that is equivalent only to my salary? (I'm going to research USERRA myself, but I thought I'd ask.)