AF Religion Guidelines

[Flaco]

I know that he's recently found significant popularity so I hesitate to mention him lest I be branded a bandwagoner, but I defy you to watch an interview with Neil Degrasse Tyson and tell me he has an inherently negative perspective on life.

I watched the 1st episode of Cosmos last night on Netflix. I enjoyed his narration and plan on watching the rest of the series.

I must admit that I chuckled when he said the best explanation that science has to offer is that the universe, the infinite universe full of billions of stars in which the Earth is a tiny pin-prick, was created by matter that was smaller than one single atom during the big bang. Then he said, "I know that sounds crazy, but..."

I thought to myself, man, Biblical creation is almost as hard to believe as that. Almost.

[Guest]

That's an incredibly tired argument that resonates only with people who have never experienced anything other than what they were brought up on. You should know that since you're not religious, but maybe you're just a very self aware exception to the rule that sees yourself as inherently negative.

I'm gonna disagree with you there. Though I don't fully agree with gearpig, there is much related to atheism that is negative, if not inherent to atheism itself. Sam Harris has spoken and written regularly about the often difficult transition to atheism, the rebukes and social intolerance, especially in the Muslim community. Lawrence Krauss also touches on it.

Religion is comforting, like a greatly extended suspension of disbelief while watching a movie. Then the movie ends, and you exit the theater. Losing that comfort is painful and depressing. I know I could go back to the movies, but I also know that for me, the movie will always end, while other people can hop between the showings, never leaving the theater and watching the movies forever.

[O Face]

Ok Fuk,

I re-read your endless diatribe to make sure I comprehended it all and I came up with this summary:

1.)The internet is a giant crime preventer.

2.)If only all those idiots (sorry, they're not dumb, just everything they believe is) would simply come and worship at your un-church where you don't learn the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Joe Smith, or Tom Cruise, but rather Stephen Hawkin, then the world would be full of happy and super smart people running (sorry, rolling) around enjoying no crime and world bliss.

3.)While we're at it, we should consider moving to Massachusetts where the crime rate is shockingly low.

Forgive me if my summary didn't accurately portray your thoughts, for they are vast, and my simple mind couldn't begin to understand. I'll just go back to playing with rocks now.

Edited May 16, 2015 by O Face

[Mark1]

Logically, you would know nothing about my experiences or how I was brought up, yet you pretend to know and speak negatively of it.

I don't pretend to know anything. I took your comment of "If I were a religious person, and I'm not..." at face value. Apparently there's some sort of hidden meaning in there that I couldn't possibly know...

Would it be inherently negative if I advocated that a person live their life free of faith and if they refused to do so I tied them to a post and burned them to death? I thought in an effort to be more positive I would take some cues from the bright shining light of positivity that is faith, and I just want to clarify.

[matmacwc]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/03/17/sorry-but-atheism-is-religion.html

Someone else wrote it for me.

[di1630]

Meh, who cares. Atheists complaining about Christians, Christians complaining about atheists.

Just be agnostic. Science hasn't given us all the answers (such as when all this universe stuff began and who/what caused the Big Bang and neither has a 2000 yr old book written by 69+ different people that tells you to love everyone and treat your slaves well.

For a good look at religion, read "under the banner of heaven" to see religion at its finest.

[Duck]

Thank goodness more people don't believe in God. Heavens gonna be too crowded by the time I get there.

[Mark1]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/03/17/sorry-but-atheism-is-religion.html

Someone else wrote it for me.

Wow. I have a feeling laughter wasn't the emotion that piece was supposed to elicit.

If I worked at Fox News I would have to come up with a cover story to tell anytime somebody asked what I did for a living, because I wouldn't be able to tell them the truth without feeling overwhelming shame.

[sputnik]

For a good look at religion, read "under the banner of heaven" to see religion at its finest.

It is a fantastic book. I'd qualify your statement by saying its a book about twisted wackjobs using religion to justify evil. But I agree, great book.

[di1630]

It is a fantastic book. I'd qualify your statement by saying its a book about twisted wackjobs using religion to justify evil. But I agree, great book.

I thought it was a great look into religion and the ability/want of people to believe and accept something higher to believe in.

In the end, I think we are just all tuned differently. I grew up Christian, my brother is a pastor and the best example of a Christian I can think of.

I simply always had questions and did not accept the final answer from church when I asked too many the answer was.. "you just need faith -or- its all part of Gods plan...

I grew out of religion the same way I see kids growing out of believing in Santa Clause. I don't need a lot of proof, I do need something, but so far I've seen nothing.

I'll never say there is absolutely 100% no God. I also won't make my life/money/family decisions based off a translated 2000 yr old book with zero proof of it being credible.

[Fud]

I'll never say there is absolutely 100% no God. I also won't make my life/money/family decisions based off a translated 2000 yr old book with zero proof of it being credible.

Same here on all counts. I seemed to grow out of it all as well. Just started going back to church with my wife and kids but my questions will always be there. There are numerous documentaries on Netflix that talk about the disconnects in the Bible which are interesting to say the least.

[Homestar]

For a good look at religion, read "under the banner of heaven" to see religion at its finest.

Hardly representative of "religion at it's finest."

May as well use Communist Soviet Union as an example of how atheism can benefit humanity.

[sputnik]

Hitchens has several books on the subject. In any of them, I would argue strongly that his thesis is definitely that religion is idiotic, but not that all religious people, consequently, are morons. Im surprised thats what you took away from it. (1)

To your next point, I fail to see where Ive called anyone an idiot for their belief, and again, I'll highlight the double standard. Atheists are overwhelming labeled as such for their non-belief. As for proselytizing, again, I invite you to show me where Ive tried to convert anyone. Ive simply posted statistics and responded to questions. When's the last time an atheist knocked on your door or shouted at your kids in a public square? (2)

People instinctively get defensive when their core beliefs are challenged. I posted statistics, answered questions, and explained my ideas about the trend in religion in our country. All the hurt feelings and insecurity people are expressing now are their own baggage to deal with. (3)

1. Ok, be surprised. Saying a belief system is idiotic kind of implies anyone holding it is an idiot.

2. I didn't specifically address my post to you, but while you may or may not have called people idiots, your descriptions of their belief systems was somewhat contemptuous.

3. I'm a nonbeliever. I just don't think that being a nonbeliever means one has to be an asshole. I have many friends who are deeply religious, they think I'm wrong and I think they're wrong. Sometimes we talk about it, but basically we respect each other. That said, I think you're giving yourself a little more credit than merited--you didn't come close to challenging anyone's core beliefs, you were just being a dick. And got a non unexpected response.

Hey, it's the internet, it happens. Have a good night.

[Dupe]

Mikey strikes again:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/17/air-force-general-who-spoke-god-in-speech-should-be-court-martialed-group-says/

I'm not sure what's dumber a) the Military Religious Freedom Foundation or b) Fox News quoting the Air Force Times.

[Clark Griswold]

Sikh applicant approved to compete for an Army ROTC without a dress & appearance waiver in place prior to application or acceptance.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/15/sikh-student-turban-rotc_n_7588642.html

I checked 36-2903 after reading this and depending on your interpretation this probably would not be an issue (at least IMO) for basic entry but some duty could be excluded based on inability to wear the required uniform/gear with the turban, required beard, etc...

Question: Has anyone seen or are there observant Sikhs in the USAF who wear the turban & beard? I haven't seen much of or really any wear of religious apparel or in my career but I figured the wear of a headscarf, kipa, crucifix, etc... with the uniform on duty has come up and what were the interpretations of 36-2903 then?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Clark Griswold

[M2]

As far as I have read, there are only three Sikhs in the US Army who have gotten waivers. MAJ Kamaljeet S. Kalsi (center), a doctor; CPT Tejdeep Singh Rattan (left), a dentist and CPL Simran Preet Singh Lamba (right) a combat medic. The latter has a master’s degree in engineering, but since he wasn't a US citizen at the time he could only enlist.

I can't find any instances of Sikhs in the USAF who have gotten waivers for their turbans and beards. According to the article from which the above picture came from, there aren't any, nor are there any in the Navy or Marine Corps.

[zrooster99]

Helo,

My first post was intended to highlight 3 points:

1. Religion thrives on ignorance. Places with less education and access to information are more religious. This is observable in the US and throughout the world.

The survey results show religion on the decline in America. Many people are asking why. The results show, very predictably to me, that religion is least prevalent in states with high educat, and most in states with low education.

As long as we continue to invest in education, make scientific discoveries (and educate the public about them) and make information easier to obtain (generally through the internet), the decline will continue. That's my main point. As additional information, since I had it available, I added that....

2. The constant assertion that religion is some sort of force for good in society is not supported by the data. It was never my claim that religion CAUSED crime (at least not in our country/society. It certainly does in many others), just that it doesn't PREVENT crime. If religion was actually effective at promoting love, respect and non violence, it would stand to reason that the most pious states shouldn't be the most crime-ridden. But alas, they are. The same applies to religion's claims about benefits to collective prosperity, morality, health and well being.

3. There are studies showing the most and least prosperous countries in the world. The most prosperous answered that RELIGION was overwhelmingly not an important part of their daily life. The least prosperous answered that it was. You're free to interpret that data however you like..... obviously there are lots of variables at play. My interpretation is that religion (any religion) isn't required for prosperity, and that there's a high likelihood that it in fact hinders it. TT acused me of conflating various other world religions with Christianity in the south, but I'm pretty sure he's the one that did that.

I know, I know! Opiate of the masses, right? Of course, you're going to stamp it out in a generation, so no worries. Islam, too? Buddhism? I bet you do. Shouldn't be any problem... Or, is it just Christianity in the western world that you're after? At least I know when I've met my intellectual superior. You, of course, have remained completely immune from any sort of indoctrination.

[Clark Griswold]

As far as I have read, there are only three Sikhs in the US Army who have gotten waivers. MAJ Kamaljeet S. Kalsi (center), a doctor; CPT Tejdeep Singh Rattan (left), a dentist and CPL Simran Preet Singh Lamba (right) a combat medic. The latter has a master’s degree in engineering, but since he wasn't a US citizen at the time he could only enlist.

I can't find any instances of Sikhs in the USAF who have gotten waivers for their turbans and beards. According to the article from which the above picture came from, there aren't any, nor are there any in the Navy or Marine Corps.

Thanks M2

That looks like a good accommodation between the individual and institution.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Clark Griswold