C-130 Hercules questions

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Let's call it what it is, fellas. From an old E/H guy, the J is a great airplane with a nearly-identical mission to the E/H, but it is a very different airplane and E/H guys that come to the J generally do well IF they come in with an open mind, listen, and take notes. That's no different than any other airframe. The most successful demographic in the 41 AS has been SMART, MOTIVATED guys, regardless of their background.

That's good to hear. I didn't think the CC could make decisions for AFPC, but you never know these days. I took the bitter 365-day TDY pill with the glimmer of hope that I could go down the street from the schoolhouse to the 41st...I wouldn't be too happy if I volunteered for this and wound up going back to the E for no real reason. Don't get me wrong...I love the legacy Herk, but I like the idea of flying something fairly new for once.

I didn't see the logic of "no E/H guys, only FAIP/OSA guys" because I'm an E/H pilot now and a former C-21 IP. I've flown a 2 pilot aircraft without a nav or engineer, but you can also argue that a non-tac Learjet is apples to oranges with a tactical airlift like the Herk.

From someone who's been qualified in three airframes in my career (UH-1s, C-21s, C-130E/Hs), switching airplanes isn't necessarily easy, but if you embrace your new airframe and are motivated, it's far from difficult to master a new aircraft. I really expect that going to the J will be along the lines of going from the C-21 to the C-130E...I went from having just one other crew member, doing the preflight/flight planning/navigation myself with the UNS-1B flight management system, and having a host of avionics goodies (MFD, color radar, partial glass, FMS, modern flight director) to having to learn how to let someone else do a lot of the work for me (ie, Eng and Nav), talk to someone behind a wall (Load), and fly an airplane minus all the toys (crappy bank-steering bar, no color radar, no MFD, etc)...it worked out just fine.

[FourFans]

Let's set some facts straight.

Thanks for setting me straight. Sorry if I threw anyone off.

FF

[pedaler]

Found the following site while surfing tonight and was somewhat shocked at the details contained in the article, specifically the detailed information on the type/location of all the countermeasures. What do you guys think? Shouldn't Big Blue be more concerned about Op Sec, or am I just naive and need to STFU?

Website

Pedaler

[slacker]

Found the following site while surfing tonight and was somewhat shocked at the details contained in the article, specifically the detailed information on the type/location of all the countermeasures. What do you guys think? Shouldn't Big Blue be more concerned about Op Sec, or am I just naive and need to STFU?

Website

Pedaler

I didn't see anything classified. Is it smart to post all of that? Probably not, but remember it's a herk and not an F-22. Even though it's a new herk, it's still pretty old technology. I did find this misleading, “The C-130J entered active service with the USAF at Little Rock Air Force Base in April 2004 and was first deployed in December 2004.” It makes it sound like AD @ Little Rock deployed it. For those keeping score at home it was AFRC and ANG who deployed it first. AD came along years later.

[Herk Mafia]

At LRF with 3 AMC squadrons worth of people, and no more E-Models in the AOR(Thanks Gen North) the rate had been slowing down before I left for the dark side. The J's were taking over the Deid and the rest of us bastards were up north. As a basic AC you were guaranteed to deploy every 6-8 Months, it just worked out that way, but on the positive side we were getting more TACC msns and some other fun stuff. Pedaler, since you're not even rated yet I have some Co-pilot buddies back at base x and could put you in touch with them and they could give you a heads up on what you are about to get yourself into.

Anyways gotta go set up my Blues...

cheers

You sure about that one?

[jrobe]

Found the following site while surfing tonight and was somewhat shocked at the details contained in the article, specifically the detailed information on the type/location of all the countermeasures. What do you guys think? Shouldn't Big Blue be more concerned about Op Sec, or am I just naive and need to STFU?

Website

Pedaler

At best the website was Semi-accurate.

[Guest r6pilot]

A few questions if y'all don't mind...

[1] What kind of flying do you guys do? While obviously staying within OPSEC, I've seen stuff in this forum about low levels at 300' on NVG's through the Rockies, landing on short dirt strips, flying formation in IMC, etc. What other kind of stuff can you let a future Herk driver in on? I've also seen the course at St. Joe for the "evasive maneuvers" training. Pretty neat stuff. I'd just like to hear a little more.

[2] When going through the AFRC route, can you request a UPT base for Phase I/II and then III? Also, is there ever a time to request LR or Dobbins or are you sent where there's an opening? (Assuming they're still open as I thought I read they may close the school house.)

[3] Is there a GPS in the H2 model? That's what I'll be flying eventually and I was just curious. For those of you who don't have GPS in the panel, do you ever take your own? If so, what do you use?

[4] When starting UPT as AFRC, when do you know where you'll be doing Phase III? Obviously the AD guys don't know anything until drop night, but do AFRC/ANG dudes find out where they'll go for T-44 or T-1 ahead of time or not until drop night?

Thank you.

Edited November 17, 2008 by r6pilot

[FourFans]

A few questions if y'all don't mind...

[1] What kind of flying do you guys do? While obviously staying within OPSEC, I've seen stuff in this forum about low levels at 300' on NVG's through the Rockies, landing on short dirt strips, flying formation in IMC, etc. What other kind of stuff can you let a future Herk driver in on? I've also seen the course at St. Joe for the "evasive maneuvers" training. Pretty neat stuff. I'd just like to hear a little more.

[2] When going through the AFRC route, can you request a UPT base for Phase I/II and then III? Also, is there ever a time to request LR or Dobbins or are you sent where there's an opening? (Assuming they're still open as I thought I read they may close the school house.)

[3] Is there a GPS in the H2 model? That's what I'll be flying eventually and I was just curious. For those of you who don't have GPS in the panel, do you ever take your own? If so, what do you use?

[4] When starting UPT as AFRC, when do you know where you'll be doing Phase III? Obviously the AD guys don't know anything until drop night, but do AFRC/ANG dudes find out where they'll go for T-44 or T-1 ahead of time or not until drop night?

Thank you.

1. Yes we do all that stuff and more, but it depends on your unit as to the particulars. Quite honestly, what you do with a 4 engine aircraft should be the LAST thing on your mind right now. Doing as well as possible in the 1 engine program should be your #1 concern.

2. You're unit will determine that as best I understand it. First worry about making it possible to have option to go to LR or Dobbins.

3. All C-130s have GPS. It's integrated into the aircraft system, so the info is displayed to you as distances and headings, meaning you have to draw the map in your head. However, don't buy a hand held until you know you're going to want to use it. I bought one...never used it because that's what a Nav is there for. As a 0 AGL, 3 mph pedestrian, your horizontal and vertical situational awareness as you understand it now (i.e. how you would apply GPS info), is considerably different from what it will be by the time you're a winged pilot. By then, if you can't keep SA on your location with basic nav tools on top of SCNS (self contain navigation system) you don't deserve to have a nav do it for you.

4. Again, I'm pretty sure your unit will determine where you go, but if you know you're going to the herk, you WANT to go to corpus (and so does everyone you fly with operationally). A prop strapped to a jet is not something mastered in the course of C-130 co-pilot school. Learn your craft correctly from the ground up...go to corpus (don't worry about the life style there...trust me, you'll like it).

Most of the particulars of your UPT training will be handled by your reserve unit. Talk with them to figure out the specific details.

B.L. Put the horse before the cart. Make it through UPT Phase I first. Rest assured you will have a BLAST flying H2s IF, and only IF, you make it through UPT and co-pilot school.

Don't forget you have to EARN your entitlement, even if the job was freely given to you.

PM me if you want more info.

FF

[TacAirCoug]

[1] What kind of flying do you guys do? While obviously staying within OPSEC, I've seen stuff in this forum about low levels at 300' on NVG's through the Rockies, landing on short dirt strips, flying formation in IMC, etc. What other kind of stuff can you let a future Herk driver in on? I've also seen the course at St. Joe for the "evasive maneuvers" training. Pretty neat stuff. I'd just like to hear a little more.

That's the bulk of it. Like FF130 said, your unit may have some other additional missions, find out from them.

[2] When going through the AFRC route, can you request a UPT base for Phase I/II and then III? Also, is there ever a time to request LR or Dobbins or are you sent where there's an opening? (Assuming they're still open as I thought I read they may close the school house.)

You go where the AF tells you, regardless of whether you are Guard, Reserve, or Active.

[3] Is there a GPS in the H2 model? That's what I'll be flying eventually and I was just curious. For those of you who don't have GPS in the panel, do you ever take your own? If so, what do you use?

GPS is integrated into the navigation system on all C-130's, save your money.

[4] When starting UPT as AFRC, when do you know where you'll be doing Phase III? Obviously the AD guys don't know anything until drop night, but do AFRC/ANG dudes find out where they'll go for T-44 or T-1 ahead of time or not until drop night?

Most units send their people to Corpus for Phase III, however, there are a few units that prefer to send them through T-1's. If you do the latter, you will complete Phases I-III at the same base. Again, talk to your unit.

[pbar]

While we're on the subject of C-130s, I have a question about the differences between the normal C-130 and the stretched C-130. As I'm a bomber type I'm not schooled up on air mobility stuff as much as I should be, but if the H/J-30 stretched models can carry more stuff, why buy the normal version? What are the disadvantages or advantages of each? I notice we bought both C-130Js and C-130J-30s while the ROKAF here uses C-130Hs and C-130H-30s. Why buy both?

The only thing I found with the search function is Slacker saying the assault landing speeds are different and not to bang the tail skid. I also looked through 3-3.C-130J but it just mentioned some formation differences but that was it. Can any 130 types here elaborate and educate a bomber puke? Thanks.

PBAR

[slacker]

While we're on the subject of C-130s, I have a question about the differences between the normal C-130 and the stretched C-130. As I'm a bomber type I'm not schooled up on air mobility stuff as much as I should be, but if the H/J-30 stretched models can carry more stuff, why buy the normal version? What are the disadvantages or advantages of each? I notice we bought both C-130Js and C-130J-30s while the ROKAF here uses C-130Hs and C-130H-30s. Why buy both?

The only thing I found with the search function is Slacker saying the assault landing speeds are different and not to bang the tail skid. I also looked through 3-3.C-130J but it just mentioned some formation differences but that was it. Can any 130 types here elaborate and educate a bomber puke? Thanks.

PBAR

We don't buy the stubby anymore, only the stretch. I've flown both, and I see no advantage to the stubby. The advantages of the stretch are obvious, 15 additional feet of fuselage or 2 pallet positions. C-130J-30 Block 6.0 release allows for an increase in assault weight by around 30,000 lbs, which is huge. I don’t believe block 6.0 in the stubby increased its assault weight at all.

Many advantages to the stretch, like you, I’m waiting to hear the advantage of the stubby.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

You sure about that one?

Regarding E models in the AOR...I guess that memo didn't make it over here.

About the T-1 versus T-44 training...I've instructed students from both pipelines and honestly I can't really tell the difference between one or the other in raw flying skills. The T-1 guys might display a little better GK when it comes to instrument procedures, while the T-44 guys know what it's like to fly partial panel, but that's about it.

I've jumped around a lot from different airframes...helos to Tweets, T-1s, C-21s then the E/H model Herks. I was told about the dreaded disadvantage I'd have going to Little Rock coming from an all-jet background, but I had absolutely no problems in the program. In my opinion, anyone can transition to a new aircraft without trouble if they just take the time to learn the new information, keep the useful stuff from the past, and discard the things that no longer matter. As for the "you've never used a rudder" issue...sure I have...I used those pedals often flying SEL props and helos...and anyone can figure out how to center up the ball, it's really not that hard.

The way I look at it...if you get sent to Corpus, enjoy the location (beats any of the 3 USAF UPT locations), and the airplanes are being upgraded so you won't have to deal with the broke stuff. If you get sent through T-1s, enjoy logging some jet time and cruising at FL390, because once you graduate and head to LRF, you'll never see that altitude again, at least not in a Herk.

[Toasty]

E's were gone for a bit of the summer in the hot months (because we were approaching 13,000ft service ceilings with full fuel/cargo) but they're back now (unfortunately!).

[slacker]

If you get sent through T-1s, enjoy logging some jet time and cruising at FL390, because once you graduate and head to LRF, you'll never see that altitude again, at least not in a Herk.

I've made it to FL370 in a Herk, could have step-climbed to 390 towards the end. You just piss off the jets hanging on the props cooking along at .53 Mach.

[HerkDerka]

I've made it to FL370 in a Herk, could have step-climbed to 390 towards the end. You just piss off the jets hanging on the props cooking along at .53 Mach.

Please tell me you where in a J.

HD

[slacker]

Please tell me you where in a J.

HD

Yep. Lightweight and low temp dev.

[T Pain]

How long is T-44 training knowdays?

[EnriquePallazo]

How long is T-44 training knowdays?

Six months, same as Tones and 38s.

[RASH]

I've made it to FL370 in a Herk, could have step-climbed to 390 towards the end. You just piss off the jets hanging on the props cooking along at .53 Mach.

FL330 from Yokota to Elmendorf...could've made 350 easy, but there's something about the fuel freezing that convinced us otherwise.

[usaf36031]

For you herc guys out there...How many engines can a C-130 lose and still hold altitude?

[slacker]

For you herc guys out there...How many engines can a C-130 lose and still hold altitude?

I can lose them all, provided my altitude is field elevation.

Seriously- depends on weight, altitude, temp etc.

In the J- I've done single engine touch and goes in the sim. If your fairly lightweight, it would fly on one.

[TacAirCoug]

For you herc guys out there...How many engines can a C-130 lose and still hold altitude?

In the E/H, you can lose an engine and not sweat too much, unless you're really heavy. However, it's not uncommon to have subterranean 2-engine service ceilings.

[MacGyver]

does the J have RVSM?

[slacker]

does the J have RVSM?

Yes.

[Herk Driver]

FL330 from Yokota to Elmendorf...could've made 350 easy, but there's something about the fuel freezing that convinced us otherwise.

FL290 inbound to Incirlik in an E and FL330 in an H across Kuwait headed South.