C-130 Hercules questions

[Jenkspaz]

This question was asked at the beginning of this thread in '04, but I wanted to get a current update and see if anything had changed: what are the chances now of a guy getting to go to Corpus for Phase III if he lets his IPs know from the start that he/she wants to fly -130s? From what I've read back in '04, your shots of getting a -130 were pretty decent if you stated your intentions early on (i.e. your IPs would work for you to get you that slot). Does this still hold in '08/'09?

[MCO]

This question was asked at the beginning of this thread in '04, but I wanted to get a current update and see if anything had changed: what are the chances now of a guy getting to go to Corpus for Phase III if he lets his IPs know from the start that he/she wants to fly -130s? From what I've read back in '04, your shots of getting a -130 were pretty decent if you stated your intentions early on (i.e. your IPs would work for you to get you that slot). Does this still hold in '08/'09?

Completely class dependent. Some classes have 7 or 8 dudes put T-44's first on their list, making it pretty competitive. Some classes have guys put it 4th on their list but end up heading to T-44's cause no one else wanted it. Most classes are somewhere in between. Definitely let your flight commander know you want it though when its starting to come around to track select.

Edited December 1, 2008 by MCO

[Guest Slowmover]

This question was asked at the beginning of this thread in '04, but I wanted to get a current update and see if anything had changed: what are the chances now of a guy getting to go to Corpus for Phase III if he lets his IPs know from the start that he/she wants to fly -130s? From what I've read back in '04, your shots of getting a -130 were pretty decent if you stated your intentions early on (i.e. your IPs would work for you to get you that slot). Does this still hold in '08/'09?

Dude, don't worry about where you're going to track. Unplug your TV, tell your girlfriend you'll call her in 6 months, and give UPT 110% for the entire first 6 months. Between 1200 Sunday and 1700 Friday, do nothing but eat, sleep, and work on flying. Leave nothing on the table. That way, you can rest easy for the rest of your life knowing that you did all you could and your destiny was to be the pilot of whatever it is you got out of UPT. If that's a 130, cool. If not, then be the best damn pilot at that airframe than you can be.

There will be dudes better than you, if not in your UPT class then somewhere else. Don't let them get to you, just bust your ass and get them next time. You can spend your time posturing and trying to wheel and deal what you want, or just bust your ass and make your own luck.

Have at it! Hope to see you in the 130 world.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Slowmover

[Jenkspaz]

That's pretty much exactly what my plan of attack is going to be. I just got down to XL, so my energy levels are back up about flying again (after my six month "sit on my ass without a paycheck" tour. I've been hearing lots of things from various studs/IPs, so I just figured I'd ask. Thanks for the advice.

[Carpetbagger]

Dude, don't worry about where you're going to track. Unplug your TV, tell your girlfriend you'll call her in 6 months, and give UPT 110% for the entire first 6 months. Between 1200 Sunday and 1700 Friday, do nothing but eat, sleep, and work on flying. Leave nothing on the table...

Well put.

[Herk Driver]

Anyone here done re-qual at the Rock within the last year that is willing to answer a few questions? If so, shoot me a PM.

[Guest AZDiamondbacks]

Is there a difference in time between the initial qual for the various models of the 130 at LR (E,H J etc)?

Also how long is seasoning typically for 130 guard guys, and is there any way to go off orders during seasoning to back to a civvie job? This question was asked on a couple of boards around here and I'm trying to get some info before throwing a hat in the ring to the 130th in WV.

[GW]

Is there a difference in time between the initial qual for the various models of the 130 at LR (E,H J etc)?

Also how long is seasoning typically for 130 guard guys, and is there any way to go off orders during seasoning to back to a civvie job? This question was asked on a couple of boards around here and I'm trying to get some info before throwing a hat in the ring to the 130th in WV.

I know the J model course for the full Vis, SKE, NVG, Air Land, Air Drop you're looking at spending about 6 months at LRF.

E's and H's school house? When I went though the 53rd a few years ago it was the same amount of time, can't say if that's still the case, but would be suprised to hear that it changed.

Seasoning at most slick guard 130 squadrons will run 90 days (unless there's some extra qual or mission that the unit owns). I've seen guys break up the seasoning days for civilian job considerations. I don't know the mechanics of what was required to make it happen, I do know that in the one instance I'm thinking of, it did not work out well for anyone involved. The flying suffered at the expense of the civilian job, and the civilian job suffered at the expess of the flying.

I would say if your coming to the guard all ready rated you'd be ok, but if you're just out of the pipeline hitting the line for the first time, its not the ideal situation.

GW

[slacker]

If you're straight out of UPT/FTU - Don't break up your seasoning- you'll suck for it.

[Texaco]

Just got picked up for -44s and moving to Corpus in a couple weeks. Is this list pretty accurate for AD assignments (not including PC-12, U-28, MC-12, UAV)?

AFSOC:

AC-130U HURLBURT, FL

AC-130H CANNON, NM

MC-130H MILDENHALL, UK

MC-130H KADENA, JAPAN

MC-130H HURLBURT, FL

MC-130P KADENA, JAPAN

MC-130P MILDENHALL, UK

MC-130P EGLIN, FL

MC-130W CANNON, NM

ACC:

EC-130 DAVIS-MONTHAN, AZ

HC-130 DAVIS MONTHAN, AZ

HC-130 MOODY, GA

AMC/PACAF/USAFE:

C-130 (J) RAMSTEIN, GERMANY

C-130 (J) LITTLE ROCK, AR

C-130 YOKOTA, JAPAN

C-130 POPE, SC

C-130 DYESS, TX

C-130 CHEYENNE, WY?

Some other questions...

-Do AD pilots fly within ANG/Res units?

-How long is the schoolhouse at LR? MC/AC school at Kirtland?

-Where else will the J-model be stationed in the near future?

-Deployment cycles and lifestyle for MC/AC-130 compared to slicks?

Thanks,

-Cucci

[EnriquePallazo]

Your list looks pretty good, they are assigning active duty guys to the 30th at Cheyenne to work with the guard.

The pope guys are flying with guard guys as well.

The duration of the school house can be from three months to eight months, depending on your assignment out of Corpus.

The rumor I heard was that Dyess was next up for Js...

Finally, relax, your going to Corpus, focus on finding a nice place on the island, drinking some margaritas, and enjoying Navy training.

[LockheedFix]

Flying C-130H2s with the Reserves at Colorado Springs is supposed to be opening up later this year, too.

[Dead Last]

Flying C-130H2s with the Reserves at Colorado Springs is supposed to be opening up later this year, too.

As of June there were strong rumors of an Alaska Reserve associate at Kulis(Anchorage).

I could be and am probably wrong.

cheers

[Guest thegotoguy]

Flying C-130H2s with the Reserves at Colorado Springs is supposed to be opening up later this year, too.

C Springs is opening up this summer...folks have already gotten orders to go there out of our squadron and assume that Corpus will starting getting it in drops by the end of the year.

[Swizzle]

Doesn't C-Springs have H3's...could have sworn they do. A miz of H2's and H3's.

Japan may be after Dyess to get the J-model. Ramstein will get the first off the line, then Dyess, AFSOC is fighting to get some in there, but they need some "special additions" that might take longer. I wouldn't be surprised if foreign sales of the J kick-off here soon as the J shows-off round' the world. Who doesn't love a new Tac-Airlift platform. Who doesn't need a new Tac-Airlift platform?!

[Guest Hueypilot812]

J-model plan, last I had heard (subject to budget changes and/or whims of the AF):

Little Rock, 41AS- Now

Ramstein, 37AS- This year

Dyess, 39/40AS- 2010/11ish

Yokota, 36AS- 2011/12ish

Little Rock, 53AS- 2013ish

That will fill out all the planned J-model squadrons. The following units will eventually host active-duty AMP crews:

Little Rock, 50/61AS

Pope, 2AS (using AFRC airplanes)

Cheyenne, 30AS (using ANG airplanes)

Peterson, TBD (using AFRC airplanes)

Elmendorf (former Kulis), TBD (using ANG airplanes)

That WAS the plan last time I had seen it. But in my experience, things always change to some degree. If the budget gets tight, expect to see one or maybe two of the J squadrons to turn into an AMP, or perhaps see AMP get pushed further back. Also, on the AETC side, the 48th will remain the J schoolhouse, the Guard will become the AMP schoolhouse. The 62AS was supposed to get Dyess' H1s after they went J, and then those airplanes would be the last ones AMP'd.

[slacker]

There will be a J Active Associate at Keesler- time TBD (Maybe late 10 or 11)

[Guest T2 Ernie]

There is no low-level like IMC TF at 250' in the mountains.

True NVG LL (contour, not highest w/in 3 or 5 or whatever it is)

HS airdrops

Air Refueling

FARP

HAR/TAR

Shooting Things

Rapid Infil/Exfil

Big Bombs

Air Intercepts

AFSOC is where it's at for mission-oriented folks who are "ate up"...we want that attitude, we need that attitude, we foster that attitude. We want folks who are excited about doing their mission. I've been on both sides & wouldn't go back for the world. I've been to St. Joe. I was NVG qual in slicks.

2 x slick assignments (LRAFB 50th pre-H3 and Moody - yes, youngsters, there were slicks at Moody once upon a time)

5 x AFSOC assignments (Hurlburt, Lyneham (SF Exchange), Mildenhall, Kirtland, and back to Mildenhall in 3 weeks)

I've done 15' NVG LL (yep, you read that right) with the RAF during early days of OEF. I've done airborne intercept training & exceeded 90* of bank - at 1500'AGL. Taken off well over 180K, landed over 175K, flown NVG fingertip formation at 100' on AERPS for four hours, landed on no-kidding roads, hauled everything from dirty laundry to high speed killers, alone, unarmed, unafraid, anytime, anyplace. It is the AFSOC way of life. I've also missed more birthdays, anniversaries, mother's days, left on 2hrs notice for 6 weeks, slept in the Herky Hilton more times than I care to remember, done 24hr+ flying days (not just crew days), been over-used, under-appreciated, and still I come back for more.

Why?

One word - mission. It is ingrained in the 130 mentality and honed in AFSOC. And hey, we have some fun now and then too. Come to the dark side. You may not know where you'll be next week, but it's certain you'll be hacking the mish...

Earlier, folks were talking about T1 vs T44 & who were better pilots or got better training. All I can say is I've been an EP for more than a decade and I've seen a steady decline in ALL training programs. I wouldn't pretend to pick which was was better or worse, but with the focus on simulator flying vs aircraft flying, I see a lot of 'flying by numbers' instead of flying the plane & that only gets you part-way there. I see lots of folks (including former slick guys) who think those big black things near the floor are foot rests. I see my beloved slick bretheren's capabilities eroded by their deployments and, in fact, we now no longer put any one through the left seat in Talons. I've had 1500hr slick AC/IP come through and they just don't have the low-level SA required, so instead of setting them up to fail, we put them in the right seat now. Between sims and lack of low-level experience, ALL students coming through Kirtland are struggling. We've FEBed more studs here in the last two years than probably the previous five or six combined. All crew positions. It is endemic and institutional.

T38s did not make better pilots, but they did make quicker thinkers. T38s were also a better filter. That said, flying the 38 prepared me exactly zero, zilch, nada for flying the Herk. The early T44 guys from Corpus were so good at low-level, the guys at the 62nd used to have to "kill" the CP so the Nav could get some training - I'm not kidding. The USAF went in and watered down the Navy training somewhat in the mid-late 90s though...it's now no better than anywhere else.

Oh yeah, we also have the best air-conditioning on a Herk - 110ppm packs front and rear - I can make it snow with just the APU! ;)

[HerkDerka]

flown NVG fingertip formation at 100' on AERPS for four hours

Not exactly a selling point!

[Guest SOF HERK]

Not exactly a selling point!

If you knew the details, it would be. ;)

[Guest Hueypilot812]

There will be a J Active Associate at Keesler- time TBD (Maybe late 10 or 11)

I haven't heard about this...when did that news come out?

Seems like I'm going to the 48th after my time flying Es is up. Keesler would be a good follow-on location (my kids live in LA with my ex). As much as I don't like LA-MS, it would be nice to be close to them while they are still growing up.

[Guest Bender]

Not exactly a selling point!

No, no, no...

100' LL, yes.

Finger tip, yes.

AERPS for 4 hours? What possible details could you devulge that would make that a selling point? BS

I'm sure it was something I'd do, but please, there is nothing good about that gear for 20 minutes.

I wish I could say I've been in finger tip at 100' in a Herk though...I'm sure I'd suffer through the gear just to do it.

BENDY

[Swizzle]

Even though the J model has RVSM, I heard it gets overtaken by jets and routed off black-line frequently. Word is that they choose to fly just below RVSM to avoid the extra routing. Can anyone confirm?

[Guest SOF HERK]

AERPS for 4 hours? What possible details could you devulge that would make that a selling point? BS

The mission. What we got to do. Oh, and it wasn't just AERPS - full combat gear plus AERPS. And be thankful you have AERPS now - the old ACDE was brutal. Truly brutal.

Honestly, after about an hour, you don't even notice it. It starts to get annoying again at about the 3.5hr point. The first hour is painful though...no question.

[Guest SOF HERK]

Even though the J model has RVSM, I heard it gets overtaken by jets and routed off black-line frequently. Word is that they choose to fly just below RVSM to avoid the extra routing. Can anyone confirm?

When Lockheed brought the J-model to AFSOC to sell back in '98 or so, I got to fly it with them. They were giving us the full-on sales pitch & demo-ed a max-effort T/O (very impressive). They told us it could climb to FL380 and cruise at 370TAS. I told them they'd never be allowed up there. The Lockheed pilots assured me they were, but I told them that if you're actually going somewhere instead of just testing the plane out, you're in the heart of the jet traffic and you're too slow. Even in the low 30s, you're in the mil-jet traffic and are still too slow.

Fast forward to about 2000-01 when I was with the RAF, EU Flow Control was keeping the RAF J-models down in the high 20s and they weren't realizing the fuel efficiency they had hoped for. There was talk of putting externals on them!

So, yes, the J-model is too slow to be way up high in congested airspace. I've no doubt they do it from time to time, but if there's other traffic, they'll either get descended or rerouted.

I think the J-model is a great plane. I also think Lockheed failed to learn important lessons from C-27A & C-17 about two-man tactical operations and consequently, didn't take a large enough leap in technology to truly eliminate extra crewmembers. I flew a series of classified simulators for a test program at McDonnel-Douglas in the late '90s - they gave us cockpit displays that were, at the time, one of the proposals for JSF they were working on. Moving maps with DTED overlay, RTIC from onboard/offboard sensor fusion, the threat displays were incredible (and supremely useful & intuitive), and other toys that made a low-level infiltration mission something a two man crew could actually do. Something like that, with those principles involved, would truly be required...

If nothing changes and you always fly black line, current systems are more than adequate. But that's not what we do. They really need to rethink the tac portion of ops and execution with a two-man concept.

FWIW, AFSOC MC-130J will have a CSO (Nav replacement unit)...