C-130 Hercules questions

[HercDude]

I was a 38 turned J model guy.. hardest part, was that day or two figuring how to read a checklist and do it with another person. Next, shooting an ILS and twiddling your thumbs waiting for the DA..

Other than that, not bad at all.. great plane. Good times.

You never did it with another person until you got the the -130? My impression of the CAF is obviously way off.

[hardie9e]

Anyone ever do the academics/sim only at little rock and then move on to do the flying at TN ANG before going to their unit?

[Kelvin]

My understanding is the Nashville Guard is closing down. They're definitely losing their FTU status, at least. Same with the Marietta Reserve. They're going operational, so they've shut down the FTU operations. Everyone should be going through LR for training.

[HercDude]

Anyone ever do the academics/sim only at little rock and then move on to do the flying at TN ANG before going to their unit?

I'd call the registrar at the TN ANG and verify that you actually have a class. I was scheduled to do requal academics/sims at LRAFB and then fly in Nashville. About a week into academics a Guard guy in my class said his unit had called to say the Nashville gig was cancelled and he'd do the whole thing at LRAFB. Turns out that was true for my whole class, although neither the TRS at Little Rock or my old base ever bothered to tell me. I firmly believe that if that dude wasn't in my class I would have driven to Nashville and been told to go back to Arkansas.

The reason they gave at the time was they didn't have enough healthy tails to run a requal class, so maybe they have turned it back on. At any rate I'd do some research before you make plans to stay in Nashville (which should be epicly awesome if you can swing it).

[hardie9e]

Yeah, my unit at home is in the process of checking on it. I thought it was a little out of left field to begin with, cool, but I was surprised. The guys here in Little Rock aren't 100% sure either, because they still have some Rep out there who works with LRAFB on stuff. I'll find out soon, hopefully.

[RASH]

Interesting future Herc info...

https://www.flightglo...nveils-two.html

[HoHum]

I'm going to stoke the rumor mill here - is anybody else hearing anything about making some Herc pilots non-formation (like a C-17 tac qual) in order to cut training costs?

[Champ Kind]

I'm going to stoke the rumor mill here - is anybody else hearing anything about making some Herc pilots non-formation (like a C-17 tac qual) in order to cut training costs?

Yes.

[i.o.w.a]

They already took down that mill and replaced it with a FACTory.

[Slow-Smooth-Fast]

They already took down that mill and replaced it with a FACTory.

hear which unit/s?

[Champ Kind]

hear which unit/s?

Active duty.

[LockheedFix]

Worst money saving idea ever. They are not losing their airdrop requirement, just formation. So they will still have to make passes over the same DZ as everyone else to log their currencies. As long as one other C-130 in the wing is flying on the same day as these non-formation guys, which is the case 99.999999% of the time, AMC is saving exactly zero dollars because they might as well have been in formation.

I think it will actually cost money, especially at KLRF where we pay civilians to run the drop zone. Since the non-formation guys will need 5 minutes of separation from every body else, the DZ will need to be manned longer since the TOT blocks are already maxed out all day every day. My $0.02.

[RASH]

Worst money saving idea ever. They are not losing their airdrop requirement, just formation. So they will still have to make passes over the same DZ as everyone else to log their currencies. As long as one other C-130 in the wing is flying on the same day as these non-formation guys, which is the case 99.999999% of the time, AMC is saving exactly zero dollars because they might as well have been in formation.

I think it will actually cost money, especially at KLRF where we pay civilians to run the drop zone. Since the non-formation guys will need 5 minutes of separation from every body else, the DZ will need to be manned longer since the TOT blocks are already maxed out all day every day. My $0.02.

That's assuming you follow the same training profile of 4 routes/drops/recoveries in a day. Without formation, you no longer have lead/element lead/wing requirements and therefore don't require as many routes. 1 IFR route to a single-ship IMC airdrop + 1 vis/NVG low-level to a vis drop is all you'll need. Block off 20 min at the DZ for multiple run-ins and you've shortened a 5.5 hour sortie into 3 hours (to include tac approach/assault work).

Don't get me wrong--I'm not necessarily in favor. But with the $ situation there's going to be cuts...

Edited December 8, 2011 by RASH

[LockheedFix]

That's assuming you follow the same training profile of 4 routes/drops/recoveries in a day. Without formation, you no longer have lead/element lead/wing requirements and therefore don't require as many routes. 1 IFR route to a single-ship IMC airdrop + 1 vis/NVG low-level to a vis drop is all you'll need. Block off 20 min at the DZ for multiple run-ins and you've shortened a 5.5 hour sortie into 3 hours (to include tac approach/assault work).

Don't get me wrong--I'm not necessarily in favor. But with the $ situation there's going to be cuts...

But that's not the case, they'll still have the same number of day VLL and NVG VLL currencies, which are dual loggable with formation. Might save a little with not having a SKE requirement, however. I'm just not concinced the cost savings are there.

[Bronco130]

Flying hours will be the same.. we fly SKE then Vis LL... then have time for assaults or pro after.. done in 4.0 hour sorties. It's not like they are going to have shorter sorties... so they'll do an IMC airdrop without a wing rather than SKE. Same exact profile.

[Champ Kind]

Flying hours will be the same.

Not what I heard. Roughly 30% cut.

[HoHum]

How about they reduce the SKE wing requirements, since that's what everybody is trying to wrap up at the end of the year? Even better....make a decision about the J and SKE: certify the damn thing (and back it up with TCAS & radar) or cut the training requirements.

Legacy SKE boxes have plenty of ghosts, too.

[i.o.w.a]

The version that was explained to us was 1 of 3 squadrons goes single ship only. A 30% cut in formation capability as opposed to a 30% cut in flying. So if this is the case, how do dudes go from a single ship squadron to a formation squadron? Upgrade to IP? WIC? Doesn't the spin-up for those events which require formation lead negate any cost saving? How does the C-17 community do it?

[ThreeHoler]

Since the C-5 has IPs and "AR qualified" IPs, I could see other communities have different levels of qual.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I think it will actually cost money, especially at KLRF where we pay civilians to run the drop zone. Since the non-formation guys will need 5 minutes of separation from every body else, the DZ will need to be manned longer since the TOT blocks are already maxed out all day every day. My $0.02.

As of October we were training military to run the DZs and LZs...Glacier Tech no longer had the contract...unless that's changed in the past few months.

[polcat]

Well, this is all news to me. I guess its not important to tell the guys at the FTU about this change. I wonder if they will send initial qual copilots for everything but formation (Phase 2 student) or send them to Phase 3 (everything) so they at least get an intro to formation. I really don't see this working well, especially at KLRF due to the fact that TOT blocks are limited enough. If anything, it would cause more of a headache.

It's not just military at the DZ anymore, there's some civilians out there now. They're still not as good as Glacier. The things that I've seen/heard going into the drop, ugh.

[Swansack]

I'm flying T-1s at Columbus and I'll be getting my drop soon, so I'm looking for some current info. There's a lot of great stuff on here, just a little outdated. And most of our IPs have been out of the loop for a little while, so some guys in my class and I have a few questions:

What does a typical year look like as far as deployments/training/TDYs are concerned?

Are there concerns with not going onto a second flying assignment for guys flying the J vs the H?

As we continue to replace the H with the J, what does the future look like for new H guys? Transition to Js is the obvious answer, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks!

[Champ Kind]

Avoid the H. Active duty is trying to divest itself of them as quickly as possible. Options then are J school if there is a spot (pipeline is pretty much at max production), UAS (there is still a need for bodies), or some other aircraft. I've heard of everything from C-17 to AFSOC to MC-12. Luck and timing, and a push from your boss that will probably barely know you helps.

As for deployments, I can only accurately speak for the Js. Units are doing six month deployments and then not deploying until it's their "turn" again. This is obviously going to be subject to change as A) more units convert to J and B) the drawdown proceeds in OEF.

You will almost certainly go to another C-130 ops assignment as a J guy.

Hope that helps.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Champ Kind

[Spinner]

I would take offense to that CK, but you're right, avoid the H as an AD guy. I just left the Schoolhouse as an IP, and there was a dramatic drop in ADAF co-pilot students this past summer. In fact, AMC & PACAF reduced their co-pilot requirement 85% from FY13 to FY14. Us H guys have to start looking for a new job real soon (or get RIFed...).

[Champ Kind]

"Avoid" may have come off a little strong but I was trying to exercise some brevity. If you like the idea of going through a 6 month pipeline to learn systems/procedures for an airplane that you may literally never fly operationally because you will get another assignment upon reaching your squadron, then go Hs. Spinner can probably speak to that as a recent FTU IP.

I should have prefaced my statement with the fact that I'm a prior H guy with a decent amount of experience in the plane.

It sucks to hear what's going on with you guys. While the writing has been on the wall (IMHO) for years, it seems like the divestiture and associated personnel actions (mostly undesirable) really started ramping up last year.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Champ Kind